why do you keep talking to people like their opinion is the exact same as other people?

???????????

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I've got a bad knee at the moment otherwise I'd join in with kneejerk reactions!!

youre assuming people are kneejerking, while some people have obviously had this opinion over a long time and not just 7 games. the lads been here for longer than 7 games you know..

So last season when he was creating chances but not scoring, lots of people were on his back saying he needs to score!

This season he's scoring, but perhaps not creating as much, lots of people are on his case saying he needs to create!!

your reply to my post was questioning other peoples opinions, very odd. can't you reply directly to what i'm saying instead?

2 games ago against Newcastle everyone was saying how great he was and that he had turned the corner exactly the player we thought he was going to be etc etc!

So people are kneejerking, both ways, if he has a good game he's a god, if he has a bad game he's a knob!

You asked if I was 1 of the people saying he created chances last season, so I replied!

Check your posts before questioning me!

Just noticed your question at the bottom of your original post, its too early in the season to compare to last season!

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by shedpensioner

What are his current strengths exactly? He doesn't seem to be able to go past opponents by virtue of either speed or trickery or physical strength or any combination of those three.

This post says it even better.

http://www.thesheden...540#entry533846

My view is simply that his strength is, and always has been, running on behind defenders into space. This is what made him so succesful at liverpool and how he scored a large volume of goals. The fact that we play slow possesion football, with lots of sideways and backwards passes doesnt help him in my opinion. In theory, the fast attacking players we have purchased recently should suit his style more, however the team comtinues to play too slowly to fully benefit from his style.

The argument is that he (and top players in general) should be able to fit into the team and adapt their style and game to suit. Torres has done this to an extent and has flourished as a provider of goals and a willing runner who does his share of tracking back. Whilst I doubt that this is what we purchased him for, he is trying to fit into the team. Thankfully this year his goal ratio has perked up, so that is a postive sign.

I would prefer that rather than trying to mould torres into a more rounded player and having him adapt, that we should try to give it a go at playing to his strengths. i.e fast, counter attacking football with through passes played (on the ground) for him to run onto....then we can effectively judge if he still has whatever traits made him a success (and subsequently what made us want to buy him) in the first place.

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by nonotnowjim

2 games ago against Newcastle everyone was saying how great he was and that he had turned the corner exactly the player we thought he was going to be etc etc!

So people are kneejerking, both ways, if he has a good game he's a god, if he has a bad game he's a knob!

really? youre doing it again. not sure what else i can say to make it clearer, so let's leave it at that.

You asked if I was 1 of the people saying he created chances last season, so I replied!

Check your posts before questioning me!

no i didn't. please read my posts thoroughly before making your assumptions.

Inappropriate post...apologies. getting on my highhorse for no reason....

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by nonotnowjim

im curious if last season you were one of the folk saying "guys, who cares if torres isnt scoring, he works for the team"

I'd say thats asking me of my opinion on Torres from last season!

I've locked the old Torres thread and renamed this one something appropriate. We can carry on the debate here.

My view is simply that his strength is, and always has been, running on behind defenders into space. This is what made him so succesful at liverpool and how he scored a large volume of goals. The fact that we play slow possesion football, with lots of sideways and backwards passes doesnt help him in my opinion. In theory, the fast attacking players we have purchased recently should suit his style more, however the team comtinues to play too slowly to fully benefit from his style.

The argument is that he (and top players in general) should be able to fit into the team and adapt their style and game to suit. Torres has done this to an extent and has flourished as a provider of goals and a willing runner who does his share of tracking back. Whilst I doubt that this is what we purchased him for, he is trying to fit into the team. Thankfully this year his goal ratio has perked up, so that is a postive sign.

I would prefer that rather than trying to mould torres into a more rounded player and having him adapt, that we should try to give it a go at playing to his strengths. i.e fast, counter attacking football with through passes played (on the ground) for him to run onto....then we can effectively judge if he still has whatever traits made him a success (and subsequently what made us want to buy him) in the first place.

That's an interesting view, but I disagree.

We may be seeing a different player, but Torres I watch regularly in a blue shirt doesn't have the speed and agility to get behind defenders anymore, that's why he looks out of options on most occasions. Did he have it three-four years ago? Absolutely, bags of it and tremendous confidence on top of it. But my point is, he simply lost both(first form, then spirit), and despite trying really hard has been unable to rediscover it.

I admit that it's easier for many strikers, not just Torres, to play in a system that employs fast, counter attacking football, since it allows an attacker lots of space and less opposition to deal with. But how can we incorporate that at CFC if 99% of the opposition we face defend in big numbers for large periods of time? Should we ask them in advance to be more adventurous and allow Fernando more time on the ball and spaces to run into?

On the Torres debate, His strength is running in behind the opposition defence. This will be quite handy on the two occasions each season that the opposition don't sit deep and deny him space. Other than that, I feel he will continue to struggle. But, hey ho, we can live in hope...

On the Torres debate, His strength is running in behind the opposition defence. This will be quite handy on the two occasions each season that the opposition don't sit deep and deny him space. Other than that, I feel he will continue to struggle. But, hey ho, we can live in hope...

Strangely, Anelka's strength was running in behind too, and yet, whenever he played as the lone front man he scored. Golden Boot winner I seem to recall. Who were his teammates? Why, none other than Mikel, Lampard, Kalou, Malouda .. the very guys who weren't "creative" enough for Torres. Also, lest anyone's forgotten, Anelka needed a whole host of chances before converting. He really couldn't be depended upon in that sense, as I complained many times, and, in the big games, he never failed to draw a blank. He could have scored far more had he converted his chances. The difference was, chances came his way, whereas they don't with Torres, and, as has been true since the day he came, the excuses are a load of baloney and the reason is Torres himself. Pray tell, anyone, why did Anelka get so many chances, is it because, as Liam so wonderfully put, he wasn't "playing from memory", as Torres is? As far as I remember, teams didn't come to SB and play gung-ho, no, they "sat deep and denied us space". Strange, very strange.

2 things that we should note from the past 2 games is that Mata didn't play, so we've not had our first choice attack in place, thats not an excuse its an observation!

That's 1 thing we should note from the last 2 games ;)

Sorry mate, that sounds awfully like excuse number 4552 to me.

We weren't playing with our first-choice attack .. ? That's football, and besides Oscar is hardly the worst guy to come in. I have never known a player who needs so many circumstances to be just right in order to perform. He needs Mata, he needs the opposition to give him space, he needs the opposition to play a high line, he needs wingers, he needs a second striker just behind, he needs a deep-lying playmaker, he needs the grass to be cut short, he needs his hair to be swept to the side, he needs the sun to be out, he needs Jupiter to be rising over Mars ..

I even heard the reason he couldn't score for Spain for so long (and the reason he was dropped) was because of his teammates. That's right, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Mata, Alonso, Carzola etc etc ..

Apparently they couldn't pick a pass.

That's 1 thing we should note from the last 2 games ;)

Sorry mate, that sounds awfully like excuse number 4552 to me.

Maths, never was my strong point!!

Probably came out the wrong way, I actually meant that we've looked better as a whole attacking with Mata on the pitch, not just Torres! In fact Hazard has looked fairly ordinary in the last 2 games, but when Mata came on on Wednesday he looked better, and we started to look more fluid as an attacking force.

As I said Juve thread, I thought Torres was quite poor on Wednesday and he isn't above criticsm, but I'm not sure we needed a whole new thread on it!

What? You mad? His price is irrelevant? You telling me if we paid just 50 quid for him and he was sh*te it would bother you? or course not, its fifty quid you would expect him to be rubbish! your post is nonsense. His price has everything to do with it.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you deliberately misunderstood the point I was making.

But just in case and in answer to your question - if we had paid 50 quid for him and he was sh*te it would only bother me if he started every match for us. Which is my problem with Torres in the context of the discussion on this thread which I understand to be his contribution on the pitch. Not that we paid 50 million quid for him and he's sh*te, but that we paid 50 million quid for him, and he's sh*te, and he's playing every match for us.

I hope that is simple enough for you.

Liam, your spot on about the price of players, if they're playing sh*t, they're playing sh*t!

Doesn't matter if they cost £1 of £100m, same result is they're playing sh*t!

If Torres scores a hatrick on Saturday, can we have a Torres is God thread??

:bow: :bow:

Im sick of people saying that they are sick of being sick at others saying they are sick of Torres.

Im sick of people saying that they are sick of being sick at others saying they are sick of Torres.

why?

Im sick of people saying that they are sick of being sick at others saying they are sick of Torres.

Sicko

At Liverpool he was confident.Confident he would be fed by players who understood how he played and where hed be...Sorry, but once he didnt find the same here it took all his confidence away and hey presto, we end with the player playing the way he does..Believe it or not he is not a GOD. He needs what he needs ..Liverpool gave him the proper situations..We dont ..Torres fault or the coaches fault?

One thing I am getting sick of reading is "He cant beat a defender one on one anymore".

His explosive pace is GONE and its never coming back, people. And its never coming back. It was gone when he was at Liverpool, but they had such a sh*t team nobody really noticed. Its gone because Rafael Benitez doesnt have the same eye for transfers he does for cream puffs.

When Torres gets a good ball played into the right or left channel, he pulls up and waits for support because he doesnt have the pace to beat defenders anymore. Slate his decision making and his body language all you want, but the fact that he is just not physically able to be that same player anymore.

But i still cant fathom this being news to anyone two years later.

He's nowhere near what Drogba was for us in his prime, or even last year. He's nowhere near what he was for Liverpool. But Roman wanted him and now he is here. Limitations and all.

One thing I am getting sick of reading is "He cant beat a defender one on one anymore".

His explosive pace is GONE and its never coming back, people. And its never coming back. It was gone when he was at Liverpool, but they had such a sh*t team nobody really noticed. Its gone because Rafael Benitez doesnt have the same eye for transfers he does for cream puffs.

When Torres gets a good ball played into the right or left channel, he pulls up and waits for support because he doesnt have the pace to beat defenders anymore. Slate his decision making and his body language all you want, but the fact that he is just not physically able to be that same player anymore.

But i still cant fathom this being news to anyone two years later.

He's nowhere near what Drogba was for us in his prime, or even last year. He's nowhere near what he was for Liverpool. But Roman wanted him and now he is here. Limitations and all.

So if you dont get the product you brought you move on from it, or so i thought?

I'd say thats asking me of my opinion on Torres from last season!

Id say that that, was a good answer

So if you dont get the product you brought you move on from it, or so i thought?

Too bad, we can't return him to the store and get back the refund.

I wonder if it would be worth dropping him, so he knows he has to fight for his place?

Then again, we haven't exactly got much backup, and the way it's going that would send his confidence back down to the floor.

To be honest, I don't care how well he plays, if he somehow ends up with 20+ goals at the end of the season, that will be good enough for me!

Im sick of people saying that they are sick of being sick at others saying they are sick of Torres.

It's just sickening