that sums it up for me ... perfectly:

http://alrickbrown.com/are-chelsea-fans-too-quick-to-criticize-fernando-torres/

If Chelsea had played with, say, someone like Grant Holt in all of those 80 games Fernando had played, do you think he'd have more than 18 goals? Serious question.

Holt missed some easy chances today, if that was Torres he would have got a canning in the newspaper, but because he isn't its too hard to quess how he would deal with that sort of pressure. If it was a choice between the two, of course I would go with Torres all day long.

As a comparison, look back at some of the striker's we've had in years gone by... Drogba is the obvious one, Gudjonhsen, Hasselbaink, Zola, Crespo. None of them were world class strikers when we had them, not the type to score 30 goals a season like people have mentioned in this thread (although Jimmy and Eidur came close in 01/02). But I would have had confidence in any of them to score one on one with the keeper when the pressuer was on and we really needed it.

Torres I wouldn't.

I disagree with that Drogba, Zola & Crespo were all world class. Different players all of them, but by far the most important was Drogba. Crespo was prob the closest to Torres out of the 3.

I disagree with that Drogba, Zola & Crespo were all world class. Different players all of them, but by far the most important was Drogba. Crespo was prob the closest to Torres out of the 3.

I didn't mean to include Drogba in the "not world class" bit, it was talking about the ones that came before him really. Wasn't very clear.

Zola was quality, but i wouldn't say he was a world class striker. He wasn't even really a striker as such, he was more of a second striker. He wasn't the type to score large amounts of goals, but he was involved in a lot. Crespo was world class before he came to us, but we got him too late, like Shevchenko.

I didn't mean to include Drogba in the "not world class" bit, it was talking about the ones that came before him really. Wasn't very clear.

Zola was quality, but i wouldn't say he was a world class striker. He wasn't even really a striker as such, he was more of a second striker. He wasn't the type to score large amounts of goals, but he was involved in a lot. Crespo was world class before he came to us, but we got him too late, like Shevchenko.

I don't agree that we got Crespo too late. He was excellent for us in 03-04, Milan in 04-05 and Inter in 06-07. If the circumstances were slightly different (read: if Jose had handled the situation better), I don't see any reason we couldn't have got 4 great years out of him.

Zola not being world class is the bit that really confuses me, though. Fair enough, he wasn't a center forward, but whatever you want to categorize his position as, he had very few peers. Absolutely world class in my opinion.

I don't agree that we got Crespo too late. He was excellent for us in 03-04, Milan in 04-05 and Inter in 06-07. If the circumstances were slightly different (read: if Jose had handled the situation better), I don't see any reason we couldn't have got 4 great years out of him.

Zola not being world class is the bit that really confuses me, though. Fair enough, he wasn't a center forward, but whatever you want to categorize his position as, he had very few peers. Absolutely world class in my opinion.

I agree with all of that. The experience Crespo's family had didn't help either.

Holt missed some easy chances today, if that was Torres he would have got a canning in the newspaper, but because he isn't its too hard to quess how he would deal with that sort of pressure. If it was a choice between the two, of course I would go with Torres all day long.

I still think he would have scored more playing for Chelsea in all those matches (not that I think Holt is amazing....ha ha....just using him as the first example that came into my head). The pressure comes with being at a top club on top wages. There is pressure on all of them to perform and if you're not doing it, you shouldn't be in the team.

I still say we don't have much to worry about. Torres looks fine, he's creating goals and he's scoring them. Every striker has bad games, his bad games are getting a lot less frequent.

The Torres saga is about hope....Chelsea fans are looking for a heroic centre forward of the likes of Drogba...We have had, and still have , great hopes and expectations that torres will suddenly become the scoring player he once was with liverpool..We need a hero up front..We will have hope he can become a goalscoring legend in the face of scouse laughing at us...There will come a time when he will produce the goods (ie goalscoring), or the hope will fade and he will BE no more

Kicking off about Torres on sunday supplement.

Tbf one of the best football journo's, Henry Winter, is sticking up for him.

I have a feeling Nando will come good with regards to banging them in, just keep the faith. Wish he would hurry up LOL.

DiMatteo did not look amused today after the red card. I think Sturridge is about to get a run of games.

DiMatteo did not look amused today after the red card. I think Sturridge is about to get a run of games.

From what I saw Di Matteo was as bewildered at Torres' sending off as we all were

That was a joke of a decision. So Evans is allowed to kung fu kick drogba in the chest, drogba gets booked. Takes torres down charging through on goal, torres booked.

We can buy Falcao or whoever else but im sensing a bit of a pattern here

Tough sending off and he didn' deserve it...up till that point he was having a decent game...hopefully the club will appeal....anyway if we don't win the appeal Danny will get a run out in midweek and give Torres a rest to recharge the batteries

No point appealing as i think Danny would have played on Wednesday anyway (assuming the ban kicks in immediatley)

Tough sending off and he didn' deserve it...up till that point he was having a decent game...hopefully the club will appeal....anyway if we don't win the appeal Danny will get a run out in midweek and give Torres a rest to recharge the batteries

They can't appeal as it was a second yellow. Besides, he's only going to miss the game mid-week. Not the end of the world.

Baffled as to why Torres got that second yellow. What for?! Oh and Little P**** was offside when he scored.

He got it for diving. Apparently, Clattenburg did not see Evans clip Torres. I hate Clattenburg.

He maybe, possibly, could have been sent off for the first foot-high foul, but the second yellow was a joke. On the positive side, it forces RDM to play Sturridge in midweek, and I'm really interested to see what Sturridge can do.

Can't help but feel a bit responsible here lads, was talking to a United fan earlier and I said "I don't think we'll lose this game, Howard Webb isn't reffing." Point proven Sir Alex, point proven.

Torres was unlucky not to score today, had one of his usual games. Linked up well, was unlucky with a good instinctive header, but as usual looks like he's running in treacle when through on goal.

Whilst I think Fergie was talking crap about him getting a 2nd yellow, he had a point when he said why doesn't he try to stay on his feet. He got clipped, so giving him a 2nd yellow was a joke, but a player with confidence would surely try to cary on.

I hope we give them a hiding on wed.

Torres put in a good shift link up play was good was unlucky not to score and to be sent off.

He goes down very easily all the time. Usually there is contact, it's not often he actually dives. He just falls over with very little contact. So it's hard to feel totally sympathetic with him. But still, it was the wrong decision and a typical decision for a Man Utd match.

Whilst I think Fergie was talking crap about him getting a 2nd yellow, he had a point when he said why doesn't he try to stay on his feet. He got clipped, so giving him a 2nd yellow was a joke, but a player with confidence would surely try to cary on.

I hope we give them a hiding on wed.

Fergie is full of sh*t, as usual.

Ivanovic made even less contact with Young, but I bet Ferguson didn't have a problem with Brana's red card.