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Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread


Torres: stay or go?  

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  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

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Its such a telling stat. Its seems pretty clear to me that when Torres has to act instinctively ,without thinking about it that is when he is at his most dangerous. As soon as he has a bit of time to think about it he becomes ponderous and loses confidence.

Of course, the goal in the Nou Camp rubbishes everything i say there but i think the theory has some weight to it and suggests the Nou Camp was a big exception. After all, how many of us would bet on Torres scoring when put through 1 on 1 against Friedel on Saturday ? I know i wouldn't.

Going back to what you said about the compilation of goals you saw for Liverpool. I stumbled across the highlights of the Euro 2008 final (Spain 1 Germany 0) on Eurosport the other day. You may recall Torres scored the winner in that game, for that goal he just looked a very different to player to what we see now. He looked leaner, sharper, hungrier, and more agile than the player we know now. Take a look at the goal here, the goal is at the half way mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeXH9pAdZIQ&feature=related

I don think we can complain with the return of Torres this season and id agree he deserves at least a full campaign as the main man, but i think the player we see in that clip has gone forever.

Of course he is different now! We are 5 years on and considering the injuries he has had he has been forced to change his game. No player can have as many injuries has he has had and still be the player they were. I still can't remember a game he has missed for us through injury so far. That is amazing considering how injury prone he was at liverpool!
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The injury prone problem at LFC was because LFC had no backup to him and when he was injured it was a "hurry up and get him back out there before he's 90%" cycle. He'd recover as quickly as he could, get back out there not completely ready, play some games, get injured again, etc. Those last two knee injuries before the WC in South Africa were a killer. LFC needed him for a push to make CL which they didn't get and he desperately wanted to play at the WC. It was a disaster with the epilogue being the hamstring injury to end the WC. Awful. I think the common thought is to blame Rafa for his rushed injuries but some within LFC lay the blame with H&G who wanted/needed Torres on the pitch to get butts in the seats and to sell shirts. LFC = dysfunctional at best.

Fingers crossed he stays healthy because he's been playing A LOT this season. Maybe this call-up to Spain was a nice little break considering he didn't play much.

Regarding this latest interview, reporters want to talk to Torres especially when he's with the ESP squad or back in Spain. By all accounts reporters like interviewing him because he's relatively open and thoughtful. I think he has a great mistrust of the English media (who blames him) but sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't hurt to sit down with someone in the English media and have an interview. Good luck finding somebody impartial and not a total ass.

Edited by Tortilla9
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I don't understand what Torres is trying to achieve through these interviews, but his admission that certain players didn't care about our results last season doesn't surprise me at all. Malouda was the chief culprit, with the likes of Anelka and Sturridge not far behind. I remember being at the Bridge when we lost to Villa 3-1 on New Year's Eve; This was one of the rare occasions that made me wonder whether the players gave a sh*t at all or not. Even the ever trustworthy Frank Lampard looked lackadaisical and disinterested on that day.

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The child returns home, to Manzanares, where everything started, from where he left with a 2-3 defeat against Celta looking for success. He went to Liverpool and now returns as a champion of europe with Chelsea, twice with Spain and world champion. Precocious in everything, today he can reach his 101 cap for his NT. He's back, but he's no longer the same.

Q: from that child in the Brunete tournament.. What's left?

A: values. What i've learned, I don't forget. I've been lucky to start young, though sometimes I think there are things that don't strike you by surprise when you are more mature. But nothing changes, you think you have lived everything and you haven't. In the end, you learn from everything.

Q: Do the scars hurt?

A: At first, life teaches you new things, you change the order of values, fit everything in a different way, maybe not as intensively as first. But for every scar and bad moment there are thousands of people that are there with you, social networks allow you to be aware of the people that follow and look up to you, they are with you and then you realize you're not alone... Though there is a moment when you tend to protect yourself.

I've realized that the player on the field must think as little as possible.

Q: you haven't been too permeable to critics?

A: I've learned to not let them affect me, to not put myself inside a cube and not listen, but to listen and learn. And look at yourself and know that only you can make yourself change, that the only one that can say "you're doing wrong and you have to fix it" is yourself.

Q: what have you done wrong?

A: a lot of things. Halfway through last seasons I turned away from the values I grew up with. I had teammates that didn't care if we won or lose, because they didn't play. I never wanted to be that way. One day I discovered that I was like them, that I didn't care wether we won or lose if I didn't play, that I wasn't a part of the group. I discovered that I wasn't happy because I turned away from what I wanted to be. In a dress-room group conscience, no, not group, friends. Can't be lost.

Q. But you lost even your identity on the field at Chelsea...

A: It's because the team required it. And i was different player in order to serve the team. It harmed my style but it was the only way of playing. I sometimes thought: " I'm going to run at the back of the defender and offer myself in space." but in 70 minutes I didn't touch a single ball. If I played in my place I wasn't in the game... ¿What do I do? It was so different to what I was accustomed to under Rafa that I wasn't comfortable and it showed! When we changed managers it was something more resembling to what I knew. All this had a good part, which is the lesson : It has made me a better player. Now I domain aspects of the game that I didn't care about before. You can be the Ayer the manager wants but you're not the player people expect you to be. I talked a lot with Steve Holland, the assistant, and we worked on that. In the end, the players give shape to the style of the team.

Q: What did you learn?

A: I went through another phase of growth and getting to know myself, of being conscious that in the end everything depends on you. I learned to be my biggest critic, to understand everyone else more and to accept the situation. una etapa más de madurar y de conocerme a mí, ser consciente de que al final todo depende de ti. I've always had the feeling that the team needed me to decide the games. It was simply accepting it: if when we won, nothing happened because I didn't play, it was a personal mistake.

Q: Did Luis (Aragonés) teach you that?

A: I think Luis tried too much to teach me things I already knew and we have talked about it. In the national team, later, I enjoyed it more (playing under him and as a person). I noticed that he insisted too much on things I was already doing good. Things of character, of values and of knowing how to behave that I, at that age, already knew and had clear because they taught me that in the youth team. When you grow as a player, you forget a lot of things, you leave them behind, and he reminded you of them all the time. That's the dressing-room I like, keeping respect and the team above everything else, but through work. Do you know Paulo Ferreira?

Q: yes, your partner at Chelsea?

A: He has won champions leagues, Leagues in Portugal, in England, he's won every title there is out there and he hasn't played a minute in years and he's a ten.(in Spanish "un diez" or a ten, means someone wonderful or great)

You can be comfortable or you can be playing the role you're supposed to play and he has taught me that, to say "this is what I'm supposed to do now". He trains as if there was no tomorrow, he goes to games always with a smile, always close to the younger ones... He taught me a lot.

Q: And you? Who do you want to be?

A: when I retire, the only thing that I care about is that no one can say that I've been a bad teammate, that i've been disrespectful, a big ego. Im sure that in 20 years time, if I go to Asturias, I will look for Juan [Mata], Santi [Cazorla], if I pass through Andalucía I'll go visit Sergio [Ramos] and Pepe [Reina] too. That's the beautiful thing. When football ends, some friends are lost.

Q: Is that Spain's secret?

A: without a shadow of doubt. We've lived very bas things before the good ones. In Spain, before Viena, they whistled at us. And all that remains. At the time it was a motivator. And we realized that we were as good or even better than all of them that came from the outside, that Xavi was magnificent... That we were capable of pulling it, that we were as good se everyone else. I always thought that sometimes some ayers that arrived in Spain were worse than what we had on the youth teams. Then we send youth players to England and the people over there rave about how good they are, then the people back here in Spain say: "How come Barça or Madrid didn't sign this kid?" Now spanish players have more liberty and less fear of working abroad.

Q: You left when you were very young. Would you do it again?

A: Of course I would! It's the best thing I've done. Not just the professional experience but also the personal one. You start seeing things in a different way, you expand your vision. Due to the country's situation, they're going to have to start going abroad. But in the end it will be an advantage. We can grow a lot. It happened with our grandfathers and our fathers. My father is "Gallego" (can't translate that) and now we have family in Argentina! It's the way it is now, if you have something ahead of you, you have to go out and grab it. But it's gonna take years for people to realize that and it's gonna be lost time. You have to be brave, and if you have to go, you go, you learn and you come back.

Q. You have to be brave with everything?

A: yes, everything, time teaches you to not hide your feelings, but in our case it's something different. Showing your feelings openly in and interview can be a big F**** up. You tend to protect your feelings in order to protect yourself and the rest. We you have to measure it a bit. In the end people remember only the two headlines they read. What they always look for is for the publication to be read thanks to the headlines. Headlines scare me a lot, because they are what remains. People almost never read the complete interview, only of they really like the interviewed person. Judging from a headline is very easy without caring about the explanation.

Q: coming back to Vicente Calderón, home?

A: I'm an Atlético Madrid supporter. In the end you support one club. Then, you can love a lot of other clubs for things that they gave you and what they've done for you. But the club you choose as a child is one. I learnt a lot at AtleticoY and I think it represents some useful values, though then you cans end up playing for another club, like Chelsea now, a much more settled club, with a higher social level. I still defend the values I learnt, not one of victimhood or inferiority, but one of fighting with what you are. A lot of times a failure can be turned to a success. Is there something more beautiful than defending your values 'till the end? Not of winning in any way, but your way?

There are teams in England and Italy that want to play like Barcelona.. They're not afraid of playing without a target man whereas it would've been crazy some years ago.

Q: you played with Simeone.. Are you surprised by what he has built?

A: I did, he was already a coach back then. I remember ons day he told me "the day I'm a manager, it's very simple, i wanna do this and this and I want a player that does it. If he doesn't, I'll play another one I don't care if he's 15, 20 or 40 years old" he had a very clear idea. He bugged the young ones a lot but he you noticed he was fond of us. His results have surprised me a lot and this is not even his team, they gave this team to him finished.

Q: How much is Falcao going to last in Manzanares?

A: you never know, it depends of the growth the team has. If the player grows above the team, you can't stop him from going because it isn't good for anyone.

Q: what's your relationship with Del Bosque?

A: Vicente is just like what you see, he has no other face, he has always treated everyone the same way. He has no personal dialogue besides the group, but when he has had something to say to me, he has.

Q: a forward in a team without forwards, how do you go with that?

R: it's just another option. When everyone knows you so well, you have to look for other options. Who knows if in some months we'll be playing without fullbacks [laughs] football evolves. Spain has earned the right to play as we want against whatever rival without fear.

Q: in that context, what does a forward does?

A: be patient, it's complicated. You need to keep a CB busy, it's a secondary role but it's the best for the team. It's a luxury playing for this team, sometimes you leave happy with the way you played even if you don't score because it's what the team needs. There are days where you think "man I've been great, I wish I could play like this always" and they come at you from everywhere criticizing you. Then there are days where you think you were slow, sluggish, wasteful in overall, but you bagged a brace and people applauds you. I've learnt to live with that.

Q; Vilanova says nothing ever happens in football.

A: agreed, you have personal recognition and what you've done. Managers like Benitez and Cesar Fernando taught me to think like a coach. But in the end, I've realized that the player needs to think as less as possible, we have to act. When you see the team as a system you think of that more than of what you have to do.

A: you left Liverpool in a bad way but you always talk about that phase as something wonderful, why?

A: I owe a lot to liverpool, the people, Benitez, his staff, the city. Its a fundamental part of my life. Even if they don't remember me the same way I do. Time will change it. Moving to Liverpool was the perfect decision at the time. When the news about Hillsborough came out the other day I felt it, I got emotional, I've lived it, I know what the people has gone through, I've seen them cry, I made it mine. It comes late but those are the things that playing for Liverpool leaves you.

I decided to leave because I needed a step forward. It wasn't the best way, but it also wasn't the way they it was sold. Some day the truth will be known. In football terms I wasn't doing anything over there, I needed a new project. It's what we talked about, growth.

Q: And London?

A: In London I go to rock & roll clubs and no one knows me!. It's fantastic! [laughs]

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: He has won champions leagues, Leagues in Portugal, in England, he's won every title there is out there and he hasn't played a minute in years and he's a ten.(in Spanish "un diez" or a ten, means someone wonderful or great)

You can be comfortable or you can be playing the role you're supposed to play and he has taught me that, to say "this is what I'm supposed to do now". He trains as if there was no tomorrow, he goes to games always with a smile, always close to the younger ones... He taught me a lot.

Clearly bitching about Paulo Ferreira

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So still whining and bitching about team mates, Fernando? Really needs to shut it.

You're obviously very stupid!

The point he was making is that he slipped into that mindset as well, and it was wrong, its the team that matters not the individual.

Loved the bit about Paulo!

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Well seems to me that he is being honest and I suspect there were players on the bench not giving a sh*t as well as those playing......all under AVB no doubt...wish they would have asked him that question....as for Paulo he has never complained, moaned or whatever he is a true professional but always ready to play and give it his all a role model for the club and when he hangs up his boots should be given a job with the kids.

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You're obviously very stupid!

The point he was making is that he slipped into that mindset as well, and it was wrong, its the team that matters not the individual.

Loved the bit about Paulo!

Well tell me Wise One how is this quote of his not bitching.

]I had teammates that didn't care if we won or lose, because they didn't play. I never wanted to be that way.[/b]

Sure it maybe true. Heck people are even submitting names as to who the culprits may be. Anelka(GOLDEN BOOT WINNER), Malouda and the likes have all been named, when these guys have done more for the club than Torres probably ever will. Saying that he did not want to turn into someone who does not care is fine. Yapping about how there are players at Chelsea who do not care whether true or not is not something to feed the media with.

Always supported him but Torres' TALES OF WOE are just getting annoying now. Seriously needs to zip it.

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Lost his pace you say? No longer unplayable? You can thank this man.

rafa-benitez.jpg

Torres often credits benitez in regards to making it in england, and we were set up perfectly for him, he also took torres off and gave him a rest quite a lot when we needed a win just to make sure he'd stay fit, so im not sure i agree.

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