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Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread

Torres: stay or go?  

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  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

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I thought I had said all that I wanted to say about Torres a long time ago but I keep getting dragged back into this forum. I have been in his corner since he came, he is a CFC player and therefore like all players he should be supported, however it doesn't make me or anyone else in here that is critical of him now and again a Torres hater. He has certainly improved over last season and has played relatively well this year, however there have been games, like today, when he gets given a golden chance and utterly makes the wrong decision. In today's game the chance he had he would have buried that a couple of years ago without thinking, and there have been a couple of other games when he chose to pass rather than shoot; it doesn't matter whether he scores or not, but it would be the right decision to shoot for which should not be criticised, after all he did it against Newcastle. But what we need is a striker who operates without thinking and is instictive. We are top of the table, playing well as a team and everyone is making a contribution, Torres is doing his part too but I think its the 50mill that fans have a hard job dealing with when they see awful decision making at times by him when the ball should have been in the back of the net; after all that is what the expectation was when he came here. I'll continue to support him while he is a CFC player but I will also be critical as with any of the players, because that's what fans do.. win or lose.

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I thought I had said all that I wanted to say about Torres a long time ago but I keep getting dragged back into this forum. I have been in his corner since he came, he is a CFC player and therefore like all players he should be supported, however it doesn't make me or anyone else in here that is critical of him now and again a Torres hater. He has certainly improved over last season and has played relatively well this year, however there have been games, like today, when he gets given a golden chance and utterly makes the wrong decision. In today's game the chance he had he would have buried that a couple of years ago without thinking, and there have been a couple of other games when he chose to pass rather than shoot; it doesn't matter whether he scores or not, but it would be the right decision to shoot for which should not be criticised, after all he did it against Newcastle. But what we need is a striker who operates without thinking and is instictive. We are top of the table, playing well as a team and everyone is making a contribution, Torres is doing his part too but I think its the 50mill that fans have a hard job dealing with when they see awful decision making at times by him when the ball should have been in the back of the net; after all that is what the expectation was when he came here. I'll continue to support him while he is a CFC player but I will also be critical as with any of the players, because that's what fans do.. win or lose.

Well said. I maintain my stance - we are basically playing Kalou as our #9. He does his bit, works hard , gets a goal every 3 games and the odd assist and that's all fine, but is the player really scaring the life out of opposition defences (and supporters?)

for the current form and return of Torres we could've kept Kalou or bought a striker from France or Portugal for £15 million.

Honestly this current team would be f**king dynamite with a top class striker that buried chance after chance and terrified opposing teams. Torres is doing ok , bit he's nothing of the sort.

No doubt someone will pipe up and say the norm , this thread is embarrassing or Torres gets more stick than other players on the team (I actually think its the total opposite) but this is simply how I see it.

Edited by bjd

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Well said. I maintain my stance - we are basically playing Kalou as our #9. He does his bit, works hard , gets a goal every 3 games and the odd assist and that's all fine, but is the player really scaring the life out of opposition defences (and supporters?)

for the current form and return of Torres we could've kept Kalou or bought a striker from France or Portugal for £15 million.

Honestly this current team would be f**king dynamite with a top class striker that buried chance after chance and terrified opposing teams. Torres is doing ok , bit he's nothing of the sort.

No doubt someone will pipe up and say the norm , this thread is embarrassing or Torres gets more stick than other players on the team (I actually think its the total opposite) but this is simply how I see it.

I can't really fault your logic. Torres is an ok player, but is worth nowhere near the £50 million asking fee. He was a marquee signing, but was arguably, or obviously even, signed too late for us to get the best out of him.

While it's true that our style of play didn't help, and neither did it that Torres was in so many ways playing second to Didier Drogba, But never at any time were you left with the feeling that he was going to suddenly transmogrify into a lethal goal machine. I still want him to succeed, as I'm sure do yourself and the vast majority of Chelsea supporters. There have been glimpses, Torres puts in a shift, often making a valuable contribution to the side, but nothing that comes anywhere near to justifying the transfer fee.

I like Torres by the way, I don't think he's a bad player at all. Attention is magnified, quite naturally in light of such a huge fee. His mistakes are highlighted, every time he fails to hit the back of the net, the same old clichés get trotted out. But for the price we paid we could have done a hell of a lot better, I think that much is undeniable.

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I like Torres by the way, I don't think he's a bad player at all. Attention is magnified, quite naturally in light of such a huge fee. His mistakes are highlighted, every time he fails to hit the back of the net, the same old clichés get trotted out. But for the price we paid we could have done a hell of a lot better, I think that much is undeniable.

I agree. Sure he dosesn't look £50M worth of striker but he is making a very decent contribution every time I see him. He really does suit the way we are playing now with mata, Hazard and Oscar playing in the three. Mata in particular links up superbly with Torres. I woulkd much rather the goals got shared out more like they are now than rely on Drogba and Lampard too much as we did in the past. In fact if Drogba was still here, I just don't think our new style of play would work anywhere near as well as it is at present.

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Some good well balanced opinions of Torres on this thread which isn't always the case.

As others have said above, he is doing ok so far this season with glimpses of brilliance (Newcastle) but not producing it consistently enough to really fully silence critics. He has certainly improved gradually from when we sigend him and he is contributing with both goals and assists as well as some nice touches and link up play- I think he will continue to score this season however I can't deny that I agree that with a striker who is in their prime, brimming with confidence and producing it week in/week out I think we could be utterly devastating up front.

All strikers miss chances, granted, however Torres has had a fair few one on ones this season (the service undeniably far better this season) and he hasn't converted any of them that I can remember (I am talking purely the one on ones with the keeper) and for a club in our position with the wealth of attacking talent we have feeding our number 9 it really could be resulting in many more goals.

I said before this season that Torres should be our number 9 this season and that it was 'make or break'. I still believe in both those statements and will judge him at the end of the season accordingly but at the moment when you look at the quality around him he is still not quite doing enough to prove to me that we don't need to worry about the striking situation.

Like most Chelsea fans I want him to be a success more than anything else. I get more satisfaction when Torres scored tha anyone else due to the fact I hope and believe that Torres scoring and building confidence could have a positive effect on the team and indeed the club in terms of getting a return on our £50M invenstment but I have to be honest in my assesment of him and there is still great room for improvement in the number 9 position.

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Not like me, but Torres really p!ssed me off yesterday, should of just shot when he had the chance for his first, the second one was a decent effort, but there seemed to be a lack of effort from him yesterday which really got my back up. However, one point I'll make is his crossing is out of this world, exactly where a striker would want the ball put into.

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Some of the talk in here reminds me of when a player is injured and they become this mythical beast of a footballer, you'd think Torres scored messi and Ronaldo levels of goals when he was at Liverpool and now he puts his boots on backwards for us(for those playing at home it was actually a bit over a goal every other game)

I think the key is for the majority of us we'd only see Torres on the highlights and they aren't really gonna show how many he misses there(well not before the transfer anyway).

I will say the one part that has annoyed me lately though, it's not that he isn't scoring the one-on-ones its that for most of them his not even making a decision and they just Peter out. If he tried to round the keeper and stuffed it or missed the shot it'd be a lot more understandable

Oh I will say he started off shocking for us but since Robbie's come in he has been playing well again

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Yes, I have heard him credit Benitez alot for his coaching and man management when Torres first came to England, and there is no doubt that they built a very good side with Torres at the heart of it.

But in that time Liverpool's other strikers were Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Bellamy and Keane. A consistently terrible record of finding another solid goalscorer (until Gerrard was used as a forward) meant a bigger burden on torres which meant he was often rushed back from injury or not rehabbed properly and thrown out there again. That was a major failing of Benitez IMO along with many of his other wasted transfer dealings.

yeah he was very hit and miss, but when he hit it was always big, il find a link for it in a minute but there was an interview from just after he left where he said he wanted to buy falcoa (i think) to partner torres but couldn't get the money from hicks and gillette (which was only like 20 mill at the time or something)

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Falcao: The quality of the EPL is not in doubt. There is so much talk of Barcelona & Real Madrid but the Champions of Europe are in England.

Isn't there just the tiniest bit of doubt in your mind that if we were to buy Falcao in January that we could possibly end up with another £50 million (approx) failure?

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Isn't there just the tiniest bit of doubt in your mind that if we were to buy Falcao in January that we could possibly end up with another £50 million (approx) failure?

Provided he doesn't get injured between now and then, no. Edin Dzeko has scored 19 goals in his last 37 EPL matches. The difference in quality between Falcao and Dzeko is akin to the difference in quality between John Terry and Joleon Lescott.

If Falcao is going to cost £50m, then we need to seriously consider whether it's worthwhile to splash that kind of cash on a player who will turn 27 a mere 10 days after the transfer window closes. However, I have no doubt that he'd be a rousing success for us for the next few years at least.

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Provided he doesn't get injured between now and then, no. Edin Dzeko has scored 19 goals in his last 37 EPL matches. The difference in quality between Falcao and Dzeko is akin to the difference in quality between John Terry and Joleon Lescott.

If Falcao is going to cost £50m, then we need to seriously consider whether it's worthwhile to splash that kind of cash on a player who will turn 27 a mere 10 days after the transfer window closes. However, I have no doubt that he'd be a rousing success for us for the next few years at least.

Your absolutely on the money here, but I think the fact he is turning 27 is even more reason to buy him. We have two, young strikers trying to prove themselves at the club in Lukaku and Sturridge. If we were to go and spend 50m on someone their age then that would categorically rule out a career in the first team with us. If the decision in January is that Fernando hasn't done enough, we need someone in their prime and Falcao would offer that option. 3-4 years at the top, hopefully a sh*t ton of trophies and then he can be phased out. That said, I have and always will wish that Fernando will be our man. But it seems less and less likely and I can't see Torres getting better than what he is doing now.

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Good answers. I've just come across this on Sky, by the way:

Chelsea target Radamel Falcao has praised the quality of the Premier League

Chelsea target Radamel Falcao has talked up the English game by pointing out that the Stamford Bridge club are European champions.

The Atletico Madrid forward has been heavily linked with a January move to London and has revealed his admiration for the Premier League.

"The quality of the league is not in doubt - there is so much talk of Barcelona and Real Madrid but the champions of Europe are in England."

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It's later than I realised, and I'm a lot more tired than I realised... I've just noticed that my last post actually expands on the post I quoted in order to pose a question a littler earlier. With me so far? Good! I really am bloody tired!

But what I was wondering, if were to sign Falcoa is whether there would then be a Falcoa or Torres situation, with one or other on the bench, or whether the two of them could possibly play together up front. The possibilities are intriguing to say the least.

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Good read on Torres: http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2012/10/6/3462394/fernando-torres-chelsea-fc

He certainly is not the Torres of old that tortured us, no matter how you see it. The question remains is he good enough as the player he as been this year to lead us to a title and can Sturridge supply any help at all himself? Is this tandem good enough vs the Gudjohnsen and Crespo's of the past even?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDDR9ubKKw

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if falcao comes in i see no reason to keep torres around

Well that was predictable!

One reason I ask about Falcao is that there appears to be an assumption from some fans and sections of the media, that we are going to sign him. Maybe they're right, but personally I'm going to keep an open mind.

Another reason I ask is that the only time I've seen him is when we played Atletico in European Super Cup, in which Falcao looked undeniably impressive in what looked to be an outstanding Atletico performance. We were well beaten on the night, but without making excuses I think it's fair to say that we approached the game as if it were a glorified friendly (as we did in the Community Shield) unlike Atletico who went out with all guns blazing from the word go. That would be my one reservation.

But never mind all that, for the time going let's go with the assumption. Say we do sign Falcao. It's been suggested that Torres could be going the other way, in part exchange. But could Atletico afford him? Not so much the fee, but Torres' wages. Face it, there aren't many teams in world football who could afford Torres' current rate of income. Severance pay would be astronomical, so unless Torres is willing to take a pay cut, we might well have no option but to retain his services.

Which brings me back to the question of whether Falcao and Torres could play together, or whether we'd be faced with a Drogba/Torres type situation in what is now a very different looking Chelsea side. Right now this is all very hypothetical, but the possibilities are worth considering, I feel.

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I skipped a few pages for forgive my point which relates to a few pages back.

People say Studge is selfish and not a team player but what i like about his is he will always shoot. He isnt afraid to miss. I think this is Torres problem. He seems to me that he is afraid to miss.

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Falcao would be a huge risk at the money being spoken about.

Sure he's been banging goals in for Athletico and before that Porto, however those are both teams that play in leagues with a more open style of play. I'm not saying he wouldn't work out, but why are we thinking of upsetting the apple cart? We're top of the league FFS playing the best football that we've seen for years!

Torres is contributing to the best attack in the PL at the moment, lets be happy with that.

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Signing Falcao would be amazing for us but it would also stop City or one of the other big clubs getting probably the best striker on the planet right now. If the chance comes up in Jan regardless of if we are top and if Torres is banging in the goals we should still sign him in my opinion. As i have said before i think Studge will leave in the summer so we need another striker.

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Watching that video was like watching Shevchenko at AC Milan.

It's a shame really, both fantastic players in their prime and at their peak. I think we can win the league with Torres, but I dont think we'll see the Torres of Liverpool again.

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The problem here is the continued expectation that Torres would be back to being the player he was at Liverpool. I had given up that hope long ago and now I see him as a player who is among the top 5 strikers in the league and is leading our line quite all right.

We need to stop making statements like - "The Torres of old would have buried that chance". He is not the Torres of old and he will never be. How many strikers in the league are better than him? RVP, Aguero, Tevez? Maybe one or two more depending on your personal preferences. But not a hell lot more. He is still certainly a top 4 team striker.

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The most telling moment for me on Saturday was not the shot he put just wide but the chance where he had a 5 yard head start on the Spurs defence and dallied for so long that the defender was able to catch him up and make a saving challenge.

This is as good as we're going to get from him now. At least he's no longer the forlorn figure we got when he first joined. He's involved in the play, he's getting chances, creating chances and scoring some of them. I think he'll get a reasonable number of goals this season, say 18 in all competitions.

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