I doubt any other coach would have done better with this squad to be honest.

 

We're simply deluding ourselves if we think we're going to be winning trophies on a frequent basis like we were a decade ago considering the current climate of football has changed and our squad is undergoing a rapid overhaul with most of the spine gone now.

 

The mid-table sides are proving to be a more difficult obstacle to overcome than they used to be and it has made the competition more unpredictable these days.

 

Winning the EPL and League Cup last season seems to be under appreciated by many supporters.

 

It seems as if people expect it to be a god-given right for us to win it year in year out and I don't think they realise the significant magnitude behind winning both trophies last season. 

 

Also, it's ironic that those who are name calling supporters who have grievances with the way this sacking was handled have the nerve to say that they're spoilt when in reality the attitude espoused by some last season almost seems like one of indifference rather than jubilation in regards to the trophies we won.

This kind of post just annoys the sh*t out of me.

You talk about Mourinho being almost assured of success but then talk about the current climate of football makes it harder for success with better mid table teams?  So which is it?  Is Mourinho immune to the evolution of the game?

Then you talk about winning the league last year and supporters being ungrateful for the fact.. like Mourinho pulled together some sort of money-ball team of has-beens and Jamie Vardys into a championship winning side?    

This kind of post just annoys the sh*t out of me.

You talk about Mourinho being almost assured of success but then talk about the current climate of football makes it harder for success with better mid table teams?  So which is it?  Is Mourinho immune to the evolution of the game?

Then you talk about winning the league last year and supporters being ungrateful for the fact.. like Mourinho pulled together some sort of money-ball team of has-beens and Jamie Vardys into a championship winning side?    

Actually I never said Mourinho was assured of success? You've misquoted me for another poster but I am of the belief that if there's such a guarantee of seeing success from any manager then Mourinho fits the criterion if we refer to his previous jobs at other clubs and his first stint with us.

 

And yes I do believe that English football is rapidly evolving with the introduction of FFP, the TV right deals which is allowing mid-table sides to flourish in a way that may have not been possible a decade ago so the competition has been more difficult.

 

The squad that won last season was excellent in their performances especially in the first half of the year, but they have absolutely nothing on the team that we saw for the last decade. The mere fact that they couldn't even replicate or back up on what they did last season speaks volumes of this and is indicative of a mentally weak team who lacks the hunger to improve and to maximise their abilities.

 

A manager cannot go from being tactically astute and being universally hailed by everyone to being completely sh*t in the space of seven months.

 

I mentioned some people being ungrateful because some treat Mourinho's second stint as if he achieved nothing when in reality we were a better and more consistent side in 2013-2014 than in the previous three seasons despite being trophyless that year and we won two trophies in his second season. Things only began to go wrong from this season onwards sadly for whatever reason.

 

It's evident that something went wrong behind the scenes and Mourinho was a part of this problem, but was sacking him and leaving everyone else unaccounted for and scrutinised really going to change anything?

This kind of post just annoys the sh*t out of me.

You talk about Mourinho being almost assured of success but then talk about the current climate of football makes it harder for success with better mid table teams?  So which is it?  Is Mourinho immune to the evolution of the game?

Then you talk about winning the league last year and supporters being ungrateful for the fact.. like Mourinho pulled together some sort of money-ball team of has-beens and Jamie Vardys into a championship winning side?    

 

Well....no....in fact it's your sh*t post in response to Jezz's post that is annoying.

 

As Jezz has rightly pointed out, he didn't state that 'Mourinho [was] almost assured of success' at all - that was another poster entirely.

 

So all prepositional invention on your part was it not? And from such invention you then attempt to establish a false dichotomy in an attempt to criticise Jezz and, by extension, Mourinho. 

 

Tell us fella, what part of Jezz's central tenet did you not understand? He makes the point that the EPL is a tougher competition to win & have sustained success at the top than it was a decade ago. Surely that's not open to debate is it? Or do you think that it is easier to win it now with the likes of City, Arse & Spuds ( & Leicester) joining in what was traditionally back then a comp between us & Manure? To posit as you do that Mourinho may be 'immune to the evolution of the game' is myopic rubbish. In many ways Mourinho was a revolutionary when he hit english shores in terms of his methods & match-day preparation & we benefited big time: but now everyone else has, during that decade, caught up in that regard. And so it makes it that much harder not only for us now but for everyone else. 

 

Accordingly, and with this squad, the landing of the double last year was a greater achievement than any of our previous titles/doubles delivered over the last decade. That is likewise unarguable. Our 04/05/06 squad & the 09/10/11 squad were much stronger than the present/last year's squad. And so, given the greater competition in the league & a lesser squad, the double was something to be savoured and not forgotten in a hurry because I doubt that we'll taste the double again for some years. I hope I'm wrong in that regard but I doubt it.

 

An apology to Jezz is required.

When he returns to the Bridge he will get an ovation because our fans have more class than most.I will always appreciate the a mount of trophies we won under him and he is part of our history,but we now move on.Hard to see him and Juan at the Mancs but football is a funny old game eh?

I see Jezz has brought his lawyer with him to the debate :)

Yeah but Mourinho ballsed it up massively. Fair enough the squad was lacking and the bord failed deserved criticism for that. However Jose lost it and went beserk on everyone. He could have had a relatively poor season, finish in 4th place and made the board realise that they need to invest heavily. Instead, he went on a rampage to try and get the team going.

If (and when) Jose goes to United, does anyone think he'll be different? Or the same moody, controversial Jose?

Yeah but Mourinho ballsed it up massively. Fair enough the squad was lacking and the bord failed deserved criticism for that. However Jose lost it and went beserk on everyone. He could have had a relatively poor season, finish in 4th place and made the board realise that they need to invest heavily. Instead, he went on a rampage to try and get the team going.

 

dear oh dear. I guess Fergie never lost it with anyone either or Clough for that matter. Look - the owner admitted to the players that he hadn't wanted to dispense with Mourinho - what can we infer from that: first, the squad was no longer the full chop & your all now playing for your futures. Hiddink said as much the other day - that there needed to be a major overhaul of this squad. It's not rocket science. And to say that Mourinho sans 'rampage' could have got us 4th - are you a comedian? With this squad. hehe

If (and when) Jose goes to United, does anyone think he'll be different? Or the same moody, controversial Jose?

Depends if his manopause has had attention. He's a maverick, but that changes over time, he may mellow at some point.

If (and when) Jose goes to United, does anyone think he'll be different? Or the same moody, controversial Jose?

It has taken me a while to reach this point, but: I don't care. I don't care where he will go, I don't care what he does. I cared for the Chelsea Mourinho, but he isn't the Chelsea Mourinho anymore. All I care about is Chelsea, and that is more than enough these days :-)

It has taken me a while to reach this point, but: I don't care. I don't care where he will go, I don't care what he does. I cared for the Chelsea Mourinho, but he isn't the Chelsea Mourinho anymore. All I care about is Chelsea, and that is more than enough these days :-)

This. Blessed V

In 2 and half yrs since he returned there have been 9cups/trophies up for grabs. We won two, not ungrateful and wish him all the best but again I state no one is assured success.

Care to name the BPL manager who won more?

Are you seriously counting the community shield?

I'd say taking a team that looked nowhere near BPL Champions and making them thus within 2 seasons while barely spending anything net is pretty damn successful. But then you'll probably prove me wrong by showing the BPL manager who did better in those 2 years.

Only Pelligrini has won similar to Mourinho in that time span. Want to compare how MCFC supported Pelligrini compared to how CFC supported Mourinho?

So how do you define success? Would you say SAF isnt succesful? Because in terms of ratios of trophies won in his career, SAF's is worse than Mourinho's and about par with 2 out of every 9.

edit: and I just want to point out that winning 25% of the competitions you enter is actually a pretty f**king top acheivement, considering multiple clubs have matched or surpasssed CFC in the net funding they have given their managers, when you consider that there is a minimum 19 other teams to beat in each competition and in 25% of them you are facing the very best teams across Europe and thus the world in this case.

Again, if you dont think that is success you'll have to show all the other teams in similar circumstances doing far better consistently to be taken with any grain of credibility.

(sorry, cant count the community shield as its a one off friendly and I would never use it to justify supporting any manager let alone condemning them, had to win a nice bauble to even play in it)

Edited February 21, 201610 yr by Barry Bridges

If (and when) Jose goes to United, does anyone think he'll be different? Or the same moody, controversial Jose?

He'll be in a postion where he most likely has full authority over football matters and have nearly endless resources compared to his rivals.

So no, as his conditions will be quite different from what they were here, I expect his attitude to also be quite different.

We might have a better squad than MUFC now, I wouldnt be putting money on that come the start of next season.

I see Jezz has brought his lawyer with him to the debate :)

Watch out johnny Cochrane!

Care to name the BPL manager who won more?

You must have missed the idea. No one is assured success is the msg not Jose failed or someone else did better.

Are you seriously counting the community shield?

Do the math mate.

I'd say taking a team that looked nowhere near BPL Champions and making them thus within 2 seasons while barely spending anything net is pretty damn successful. But then you'll probably prove me wrong by showing the BPL manager who did better in those 2 years.

Say the team no where near the EPL won the UCL and Europa in its two previous season, not the worst bunch of I may say.

Only Pelligrini has won similar to Mourinho in that time span. Want to compare how MCFC supported Pelligrini compared to how CFC supported Mourinho?

So how do you define success? Would you say SAF isnt succesful? Because in terms of ratios of trophies won in his career, SAF's is worse than Mourinho's and about par with 2 out of every 9.

Once again you miss the point. Also might be wrong about Fergie's win ratio, 38 trophies in 26 yrs when calculated should be 1 in every 3 but again that isnt what the post was about.

Actually I never said Mourinho was assured of success? You've misquoted me for another poster but I am of the belief that if there's such a guarantee of seeing success from any manager then Mourinho fits the criterion if we refer to his previous jobs at other clubs and his first stint with us.

 

And yes I do believe that English football is rapidly evolving with the introduction of FFP, the TV right deals which is allowing mid-table sides to flourish in a way that may have not been possible a decade ago so the competition has been more difficult.

 

The squad that won last season was excellent in their performances especially in the first half of the year, but they have absolutely nothing on the team that we saw for the last decade. The mere fact that they couldn't even replicate or back up on what they did last season speaks volumes of this and is indicative of a mentally weak team who lacks the hunger to improve and to maximise their abilities.

 

A manager cannot go from being tactically astute and being universally hailed by everyone to being completely sh*t in the space of seven months.

 

I mentioned some people being ungrateful because some treat Mourinho's second stint as if he achieved nothing when in reality we were a better and more consistent side in 2013-2014 than in the previous three seasons despite being trophyless that year and we won two trophies in his second season. Things only began to go wrong from this season onwards sadly for whatever reason.

 

It's evident that something went wrong behind the scenes and Mourinho was a part of this problem, but was sacking him and leaving everyone else unaccounted for and scrutinised really going to change anything?

 

Well....no....in fact it's your sh*t post in response to Jezz's post that is annoying.

 

As Jezz has rightly pointed out, he didn't state that 'Mourinho [was] almost assured of success' at all - that was another poster entirely.

 

So all prepositional invention on your part was it not? And from such invention you then attempt to establish a false dichotomy in an attempt to criticise Jezz and, by extension, Mourinho. 

 

Tell us fella, what part of Jezz's central tenet did you not understand? He makes the point that the EPL is a tougher competition to win & have sustained success at the top than it was a decade ago. Surely that's not open to debate is it? Or do you think that it is easier to win it now with the likes of City, Arse & Spuds ( & Leicester) joining in what was traditionally back then a comp between us & Manure? To posit as you do that Mourinho may be 'immune to the evolution of the game' is myopic rubbish. In many ways Mourinho was a revolutionary when he hit english shores in terms of his methods & match-day preparation & we benefited big time: but now everyone else has, during that decade, caught up in that regard. And so it makes it that much harder not only for us now but for everyone else. 

 

Accordingly, and with this squad, the landing of the double last year was a greater achievement than any of our previous titles/doubles delivered over the last decade. That is likewise unarguable. Our 04/05/06 squad & the 09/10/11 squad were much stronger than the present/last year's squad. And so, given the greater competition in the league & a lesser squad, the double was something to be savoured and not forgotten in a hurry because I doubt that we'll taste the double again for some years. I hope I'm wrong in that regard but I doubt it.

 

An apology to Jezz is required.

Yawn yawn yawn.

Jezz, you did the same thing again and I feel you're a contradicting yourself, but I've gone round and round on here about this sh*t so i really don't care to keep going.

Youlots, I've got about as much time for you as words I understood in your post. 

Yes, the team that won the CL but finished 7th in the BPL never looked like league champions hence the 7th placed finish. They then set the record for being the first defending CL champs to get kicked out at the group stages the next season, hence the EL win, and again finished nowhere near first place hence not looking like BPL champions again. Not the worst bunch but yet again a group that nowhere looked like BPL champions until Mourinho took charge.

You have very selective math. Assuming 26 years then were only looking at his MUFC job and not his actual career which spans more than an additional decade, right?

So 1 in 3 is much better than the 1 in 4 timeline you selected for Mourinho? Tell you this though, you do it for Mourinho's whole tenure at CFC and that ratio becomes better than 1 in 3 for full seasons managed....

I'll let you do the math on their whole careers but just glancing Im thinking they start to favour Mourinho even more.....

edit: and I hope you realise, for what you attempt to portray as an unsuccessful period, it's only 8% off the competitions won rate of the most successful manager of all time during their most succssful club tenor in their career.....and on limited net resources, for a CFC manager with who knows what going on in the background ........really want to keep that stance?

Edited February 21, 201610 yr by Barry Bridges

Yes, the team that won the CL but finished 7th in the BPL never looked like league champions hence the 7th placed finish. They then set the record for being the first defending CL champs to get kicked out at the group stages the next season, hence the EL win, and again finished nowhere near first place hence not looking like BPL champions again. Not the worst bunch but yet again a group that nowhere looked like BPL champions until Mourinho took charge.

And the team won the Epl last season and 16th when he left. Next?

You have very selective math. Assuming 26 years then were only looking at his MUFC job and not his actual career which spans more than an additional decade, right?

And the 2 in 9 for Jose, at what point was that his whole career?. Did you even read my post or you just saw 'lesblues' and automatically replied.

So 1 in 3 is much better than the 1 in 4 timeline you selected for Mourinho? Tell you this though, you do it for Mourinho's whole tenure at CFC and that ratio becomes better than 1 in 3 for full seasons managed....

Christ I don't even get all that.

I'll let you do the math on their whole careers but just glancing Im thinking they start to favour Mourinho even more.....

edit: and I hope you realise, for what you attempt to portray as an unsuccessful period, it's only 8% off the competitions won rate of the most successful manager of all time during their most succssful club tenor in their career.....and on limited net resources, for a CFC manager with who knows what going on in the background ........really want to keep that stance?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT OF THE POST YOU REPLIED TO EARLIER.

You speak of not grasping the point of a post. I replied to a post that was critical of another for saying that if success was able to be guaranteed in football, Mourinho is that guarantee.

Even with a section of Mourinho's career that you use as evidence to portray Mouinho as "not assured to bring success" he is only a small way off the same competitions won % as SAF's at MUFC, the greatest manager ever during his very best club period.

You have used a tenure to slay Mourinho with that almost any other manager, ever, would be proud to have on their resume. Yet true, for a manager who has won the league title with every single club he has managed and has won multiple CLs with multiple clubs, it was a poorer period (on paper) compared to most of their career.... (EDITand if you dont count community shields the % is nearly identical I believe)

Does that not address the point of your post? Does that not scream of someone who, if anyone, could gaurantee success in football? and please realize that no one here is actally talking about a literal 100% guarantee of success but the best or most likely chance of it

Edited February 21, 201610 yr by Barry Bridges

He'll be in a postion where he most likely has full authority over football matters and have nearly endless resources compared to his rivals.

So no, as his conditions will be quite different from what they were here, I expect his attitude to also be quite different.

We might have a better squad than MUFC now, I wouldnt be putting money on that come the start of next season.

I don't think his character or personality will change when he takes charge there but then I don't think it needs to. He will win trophies as he always does. The platform he gets there will also help him massively.

United will provide him with the resources he asks for, or at least do everything they can in their power to get them. I think that process has probably already started behind the scenes.

A Premier League with Mourinho in it is a far more interesting place. Though I doubt Roman will think so come August.

"you have used a tenure to slay Mourinho...". Finally the crux of the matter. You see as that, I dont.Enough said.

Edited February 21, 201610 yr by lesblues

This kind of post just annoys the sh*t out of me.

You talk about Mourinho being almost assured of success but then talk about the current climate of football makes it harder for success with better mid table teams?  So which is it?  Is Mourinho immune to the evolution of the game?

Then you talk about winning the league last year and supporters being ungrateful for the fact.. like Mourinho pulled together some sort of money-ball team of has-beens and Jamie Vardys into a championship winning side?    

despite you quoting the wrong poster, you also misquoted me. i said mourinho was the closest thing to a guarantee of success. there are no guarantees in football, but mourinho's record shows that if you back him, you are more likely to win trophies than by backing any other manager. I dont think that point is really up for debate given his record over the last 15 years

despite you quoting the wrong poster, you also misquoted me. i said mourinho was the closest thing to a guarantee of success. there are no guarantees in football, but mourinho's record shows that if you back him, you are more likely to win trophies than by backing any other manager. I dont think that point is really up for debate given his record over the last 15 years

 

I wouldn't bother coxy - didn't have the decency to apologise to jezz or for his sociopathic post & rejoinder for that matter & so he's hardly going to have the balls to join issue with what you stated in any meaningful fashion: he's trailer trash.

Jose's gone, move on ffs

Jose's gone, move on ffs

This.

Wander what happens to this thread when United appoint Giggs lol