15 hours ago, Munkworth said:

And I think we both know why 🙂

On 02/03/2021 at 16:56, Argo said:

The funniest thing about the Kante Vs Jorginho debates is it's inadvertently showing that Kovacic is now the world class untouchable in our midfield.

Kovacic WC ???? Not even close

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Kovacic WC ???? Not even close

He is close. He’s one of our best players and we’re pretty close to being a top team. How can he be “not even close”? I’d argue most of our players are pretty close.

1 hour ago, Dean said:

He is close. He’s one of our best players and we’re pretty close to being a top team. How can he be “not even close”? I’d argue most of our players are pretty close.

Really? 

I'll mention our last 5 wc player. 

Kante -  the best ball winner in the world, can absolutely dominate game by tackling, ridiculous. 

Cesc - epl best creator n passer

Hazard - balond or level talent 

Diego - Animal, dirty, technically isn't clean but still better firsr touch than Werner. Absolutely physical, can fight against two cb at once, fantastic  finisher 

Courtois - GK is a bit difficult, but he is excellent shot stopper that is dominant in the air. 

Kovacic isn't even close to wc. Excellent ball carrier, decent passer, defend well but not when have to chase back. 

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Really? 

I'll mention our last 5 wc player. 

Kante -  the best ball winner in the world, can absolutely dominate game by tackling, ridiculous. 

Cesc - epl best creator n passer

Hazard - balond or level talent 

Diego - Animal, dirty, technically isn't clean but still better firsr touch than Werner. Absolutely physical, can fight against two cb at once, fantastic  finisher 

Courtois - GK is a bit difficult, but he is excellent shot stopper that is dominant in the air. 

Kovacic isn't even close to wc. Excellent ball carrier, decent passer, defend well but not when have to chase back. 

Agree on everything bar Diego; I don’t think he was ever world class, he was close though.

Always find the WC player arguments fascinating as fans of  top teams always argue some of their players are WC. Personally I think there are only 24 WC players at any given time. I would argue the PL only has De Bruyne, Salah and probably Van Dijk (injured so misses the mark) as WC players.  

12 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Really? 

I'll mention our last 5 wc player. 

Kante -  the best ball winner in the world, can absolutely dominate game by tackling, ridiculous. 

Cesc - epl best creator n passer

Hazard - balond or level talent 

Diego - Animal, dirty, technically isn't clean but still better firsr touch than Werner. Absolutely physical, can fight against two cb at once, fantastic  finisher 

Courtois - GK is a bit difficult, but he is excellent shot stopper that is dominant in the air. 

Kovacic isn't even close to wc. Excellent ball carrier, decent passer, defend well but not when have to chase back. 

Say what you want about Kante but in the last 2 seasons Kovacic has been a more impactful and a more important player for us than Kante.

You're talking about Kante from around 5 years ago that's living in the past, even if he wins a ball now it made little to no difference just ask Lampa.., oh wait, right...

Kovacic "just" lacks some shooting, otherwise he's more fit for a dominant team than Kante that fits for a counter-attacking team.

3 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Agree on everything bar Diego; I don’t think he was ever world class, he was close though.

Always find the WC player arguments fascinating as fans of  top teams always argue some of their players are WC. Personally I think there are only 24 WC players at any given time. I would argue the PL only has De Bruyne, Salah and probably Van Dijk (injured so misses the mark) as WC players.  

Diego Costa was wc imo. Not many striker is as good as costa playing as single striker and be ables to do everything

I won't put a max number in it. There are many in epl. Kdb, salah, mane, vvd, pogba,kane. I honestly haven't watched much of Bruno to make judgment. The hardest players to judge are city player, their system is too structured to showcase their talent. 

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Say what you want about Kante but in the last 2 seasons Kovacic has been a more impactful and a more important player for us than Kante.

You're talking about Kante from around 5 years ago that's living in the past, even if he wins a ball now it made little to no difference just ask Lampa.., oh wait, right...

Kovacic "just" lacks some shooting, otherwise he's more fit for a dominant team than Kante that fits for a counter-attacking team.

Sure. Kovacic >>> Kante

Sarri played kante more than kova in heavy possession system. 

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

Sure. Kovacic >>> Kante

In their respective primes? No.

In 2021? Absolutely.

18 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Agree on everything bar Diego; I don’t think he was ever world class, he was close though.

Always find the WC player arguments fascinating as fans of  top teams always argue some of their players are WC. Personally I think there are only 24 WC players at any given time. I would argue the PL only has De Bruyne, Salah and probably Van Dijk (injured so misses the mark) as WC players.  

Diego in his prime was a beast. Give him the ball inside the penalty area and it's a certain goal.

By the way what is this 24 thing? How did you get to that number? I don't really get it 😁

Edited March 3, 20215 yr by wizardous

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

In their respective primes? No.

In 2021? Absolutely.

Not for me. 

But in Tuchel back 3,flat 2 dm heavy possession football you are right he is suited more to the system than Kante. 

16 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Sarri played kante more than kova in heavy possession system. 

Well it's true I can't argue that, you're right. But since then Kante fell off and Kovacic became better, just saying.

14 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I think Kepa and Jorginho are two different cases personally. Kepa under Sarri and Lamps last season were two very different seasons. Jorginho's baseline performances haven't changed that drastically. 'Since Kepa joined we haven't failed to make the top 4 despite his performances' there we go I fixed it for you.

I get that you're probably trolling but come on you can't seriously compare Jorginho to Kepa, one has quite literally dropped us points regularly throughout the last two seasons.

Whilst the other has been 'shown' to have a 'significantly positive' effect on results when he starts. Don't quote me because I'm not 100% certain but aside from the liverpool loss I don't think we lost a game this season Jorginho has started. Does that suggest a cause and effect relationship who knows....

 

Edit we are unbeaten in our last 18 games Jorginho has started as of now. Furthermore of the 3 games that we have failed to win under Tuchel 2 out of 3 of them Jorginho did not start. 

Just reading between the lines and previous posts, your posts sound a lot like gol15. Think ive solved the riddle everyone, hes got burner accounts so double trouble. 

1 minute ago, Oli said:

Just reading between the lines and previous posts, your posts sound a lot like gol15. Think ive solved the riddle everyone, hes got burner accounts so double trouble. 

This is what I expected to be honest because sadly rather than someone else acknowledge Jorginho could be a good player it can only be gol who thinks so. Where did this crusade against Jorginho begin and why does it still continue even when he continues to be part of a good team performance and run?

Not to mention if you read any of my posts I pretty much defend most of our players from criticism.

11 minutes ago, Oli said:

Just reading between the lines and previous posts, your posts sound a lot like gol15. Think ive solved the riddle everyone, hes got burner accounts so double trouble. 

Good luck having a nice time on a forum with so many toxic people that just love to bash everyone and everything, you're accusing me of having multiple accounts that is just ridiculous so you're no better than the toxic posters that just bash, whine and seek to diminish our players, have fun with nibs, just and yorkie.

I'm clearly not welcomed here because I believe that supporting our club means also to support our players.

36 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Good luck having a nice time on a forum with so many toxic people that just love to bash everyone and everything, you're accusing me of having multiple accounts that is just ridiculous so you're no better than the toxic posters that just bash, whine and seek to diminish our players, have fun with nibs, just and yorkie.

I'm clearly not welcomed here because I believe that supporting our club means also to support our players.

Calm down fella, I was generally joking, but also the way you both type, I cant lie and say I didn't/don't think its the same person. Anyway that's irrelevant. 

In terms of Jorginho I have to agree with Nibs last lengthy comment completely. I don't have any issues with him as a player. For me he is a squad player, and a very good one, but I'd always prefer to play Kovacic and Kante above him, and that's just my opinion based on what I see with my eyes. I feel you come on here and you post stats and unbeaten runs that don't really validate your points, and I have to admit, it actually has the opposite effect on most of us, and is starting to put us off him. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on here, and if most people prefer Kante, that is up to us as Chelsea fans. I would never say Jorginho isnt a good player, because it certainly is far from the truth, but I also think if you count Tuchels era alone, he is probably the most disposable of the starting 11, coupled with the impact I see Kante provide, in winning possession back in the middle of the park and breaking attacks, that is why for him id always choose him. 

And before I finish off, just for the record, you come on here saying people have an agenda against Jorginho, but lets not be a hypocrite, because you are one of the worst at that on this forum, others may just not have noticed, I have seen you attack multiple players, and on match threads and have had agenda's on them for a long time, so lets not go there. this especially happens when everyone attacks Jorginho on the match threads and then you start trying to single out someone else, so lets save the innocent act on this thread. 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

Really? 

I'll mention our last 5 wc player. 

Kante -  the best ball winner in the world, can absolutely dominate game by tackling, ridiculous. 

Cesc - epl best creator n passer

Hazard - balond or level talent 

Diego - Animal, dirty, technically isn't clean but still better firsr touch than Werner. Absolutely physical, can fight against two cb at once, fantastic  finisher 

Courtois - GK is a bit difficult, but he is excellent shot stopper that is dominant in the air. 

Kovacic isn't even close to wc. Excellent ball carrier, decent passer, defend well but not when have to chase back. 

I guess one can define as one likes, but how can he be “not even close”? Who IS close if Kovacic isn’t? He plays for one of the best five teams in one of the best leagues in the world. He plays for a decent international side that were WC finalists last time round. This isn’t the diadora league we’re talking about . And I would apply this reasoning to most of our players, most are knocking on the door of being WC, including Jorginho. I would say that with a better shot Kovacic would be world class. That’s pretty close. The things he does well - ball retention, close control - he does as well as anyone. He’s a decent tackler, much better at the “final ball” than most think. Which players would you consider close to WC?

Oh dear what happened to Gol15?

15 minutes ago, Dean said:

I guess one can define as one likes, but how can he be “not even close”? Who IS close if Kovacic isn’t? He plays for one of the best five teams in one of the best leagues in the world. He plays for a decent international side that were WC finalists last time round. This isn’t the diadora league we’re talking about . And I would apply this reasoning to most of our players, most are knocking on the door of being WC, including Jorginho. I would say that with a better shot Kovacic would be world class. That’s pretty close. The things he does well - ball retention, close control - he does as well as anyone. He’s a decent tackler, much better at the “final ball” than most think. Which players would you consider close to WC?

Completely agree, we are probably within the top 10 clubs in the world right now. So by that reasoning alone our players are at a very high standard. I prob would concur that Kante might be our only world class player, but i'd say most of our team are at the very least the level below world class. 

34 minutes ago, Oli said:

Completely agree, we are probably within the top 10 clubs in the world right now. So by that reasoning alone our players are at a very high standard. I prob would concur that Kante might be our only world class player, but i'd say most of our team are at the very least the level below world class. 

Exactly. On aggregate one level below makes a lot of sense to me.

1 hour ago, Dean said:

Oh dear what happened to Gol15?

This can only mean Jorginho has been sold.

5 hours ago, Dean said:

He is close. He’s one of our best players and we’re pretty close to being a top team. How can he be “not even close”? I’d argue most of our players are pretty close.

Oh come on, Kovacic is a good player but not close to WC. 

22 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Oh come on, Kovacic is a good player but not close to WC. 

I don't know what boxes need to be ticked to be WC, or what WC even means.

1 hour ago, Dean said:

Oh dear what happened to Gol15?

Seemed pretty clear he was on the windup. Either that or he had the unfortunate gift of being prodigiously stupid.

6 minutes ago, M.M.B said:

I don't know what boxes need to be ticked to be WC, or what WC even means.

Means toilet doesn't it....