I thought he was back to his best today, if anything he looks a lot more confident than he has for a long while. Taking shots, passing the ball about 1-2s. If he can stay fit we have 3 very good midfielders to choose from every weak. With defense and midfield taken care of we just need to sort the attack out which probably does stem from a lack of creativity in midfield but sadly that's how our squad is built.

12 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I dont really feel its Kante job to do that though, he kept it simple, and he did his job which was recovering the ball thats the main reason he plays. You even said yourself he was good at that today. We have enough attacking players on the pitch to create and score a goal to win us the game. If we win that game 1-0 today no one would be complaining about Kante. We had Pulisic, Mount, Ziyech, Havertz, Chilwell bombing forward and Jorginho passing from deep to find a goal and none of them did. People are criticising Kante for something that isn't his fault. We all know his limitations on the ball. 

We won a league title playing this system with Kante and Matic playing in it, scored 85 goals, no one was complaining about Kante then. Its our attacking players letting us down.

But it was his job though. Who else can be that link to attackers and wing backs if it isn't Kante? It can't be Jorginho because he was being marked out of the game, so it's Kante that has to shoulder the responsibility, and Leeds were comfortable with allowing him to do that because they knew Kante didn't have the skill set to pull it off. They could afford to give Kante space on the ball because Kante's touch, mediocre passing and indicisiveness would give them time to find their shape.

I'm not putting the draw on Kante's shoulders completely, but I do think he is just as responsible as our forward players for our poor attacking performance and I don't agree with those that think he was one of our best players today.

As for your last point, we didn't win the title with this system under Conte. The formation was the same, but the way we play is very different. Under Conte, we could suck up pressure and quickly hit teams on the counter with Matic breaking up play and Kante hassling players and moving the ball on quickly to Hazard, Pedro or Costa, with the wing backs joining the attack for support. We don't play like that anymore though. Now we are focused on beating teams with possession, which means the two in the middle can't just be breaking up play and quickly moving the ball on to the attackers. Their roles are a lot busier now. They must dominate the midfield with passing, dragging opposition players out of position, linking with the attackers and defence with clean and well timed passes. Everything has to be precise with the two midfielders, and Kante's game isn't as suited to that kind of game compared to the likes of Jorginho and Kovacic.

Thought he was comfortably our best outfield player today.

Yes, he is not Fabregas, Pirlo or Hoddle with his passing range but neither are any of our other midfielders. That said, I don't think his passing is anywhere near as poor as some make out and the stats do seem to bear that out when comparing the three. 

Kante is one of those players that probably won't be truly appreciated until he is gone.

16 minutes ago, just said:

Thought he was comfortably our best outfield player today.

Yes, he is not Fabregas, Pirlo or Hoddle with his passing range but neither are any of our other midfielders. That said, I don't think his passing is anywhere near as poor as some make out and the stats do seem to bear that out when comparing the three. 

Kante is one of those players that probably won't be truly appreciated until he is gone.

Stats never have and never will tell the whole story. I'm sure his passing stats will be in his favour today, but anybody watching could see that a lot of his passing wasn't well timed, clean or decisive.

Give any one of our midfielders the time on the ball that Kante had today and I am confident that they would find a way to cause Leeds a lot of problems.

Just now, Scott Harris said:

Stats never have and never will tell the whole story. I'm sure his passing stats will be in his favour today, but anybody watching could see that a lot of his passing wasn't well timed, clean or decisive.

Give any one of our midfielders the time on the ball that Kante had today and I am confident that they would find a way to cause Leeds a lot of problems.

But that's exactly our problem - they don't!

Jorginho & Kovacic rarely cause opposition problems. Mount does but he was off form today. Pulicic is out of form and Ziyech always looks as though he's not that arsed!

Our keeper and defence played well, but other than those, Kante was the only other who put a decent shift in and can be happy with his performance.

Edited March 13, 20215 yr by Nibs

Just now, Nibs said:

But that's exactly our problem - they don't!

Jorginho & Kovacic rarely cause opposition problems. Mount does but he was off form today. Pulicic is out of form and Ziyech always looks as though he's not that arsed!

Our keeper and defence played well, but other than those, Kante was the only other who put a decent shift in and can be happy with his performance.

Mount was shoved out wide for some reason today, something lampard got hammered for.

Kante was comfortably our best midfielder, yet was asked to do a role he isn't suited to, something Tuchel seems to do with a lot of our players.

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

I dont really feel its Kante job to do that though

In a midfield pivot, with the other player sitting deeper (and being marked out of the game), it is absolutely Kantes role to progress the ball forward. He failed to do that today, or when he did, his decision making let him down and his dithering on the ball let leeds get back into shape. I am not saying that he has to turn all of a sudden into Fabregas, who could ping slide rule passes through the defense for fun, but it is NOT too much to expect a premier league footballer to be able to spot a forward run and make a pass, rather than holding the ball for 5 seconds, and then passing sideways/backwards.

I am genuinely astounded at those saying Kante was our best player today. I love the lad, but he killed our attacking game today.

 

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

But that's exactly our problem - they don't!

Jorginho & Kovacic rarely cause opposition problems. Mount does but he was off form today. Pulicic is out of form and Ziyech always looks as though he's not that arsed!

Our keeper and defence played well, but other than those, Kante was the only other who put a decent shift in and can be happy with his performance.

They never get that time on the ball though. No team would give our other players that amount of time on the ball because they know our players can hurt them. I'm not just talking about creating chances, I am talking about keeping the flow of attacks going. Kovacic isn't very creative, but he keeps things ticking and links up with our attacking players so much more fluidly than somebody like Kante.

I'm basically back to what I was saying about Kante under Sarri, he just isn't made for possession based football, it's not something I believe will ever work for him.

Think long term Mount’s position is in the middle of the park with a “10” ahead of him. Where that leaves your Kante, Jorginho & Kovacic is dependent on the manager.

We seriously lack someone who can make that final pass and can play between the lines. You stick a Bruno, De Bruyne or Gundogan in that space and we will be up there competing.

Just now, Scott Harris said:

They never get that time on the ball though. No team would give our other players that amount of time on the ball because they know our players can hurt them. I'm not just talking about creating chances, I am talking about keeping the flow of attacks going. Kovacic isn't very creative, but he keeps things ticking and links up with our attacking players so much more fluidly than somebody like Kante.

I'm basically back to what I was saying about Kante under Sarri, he just isn't made for possession based football, it's not something I believe will ever work for him.

You say that but how many times have we all criticised Kovacic for his play in the final third and his final ball (and shooting)?

I think we have too many players who are similar. Good, but don't cause the opposition enough problems. That's why I wanted to see Gimour get more games as in his brieft time, he has shown that he has the ability to carry the ball and play that decisive pass.

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

They never get that time on the ball though. No team would give our other players that amount of time on the ball because they know our players can hurt them. I'm not just talking about creating chances, I am talking about keeping the flow of attacks going. Kovacic isn't very creative, but he keeps things ticking and links up with our attacking players so much more fluidly than somebody like Kante.

I'm basically back to what I was saying about Kante under Sarri, he just isn't made for possession based football, it's not something I believe will ever work for him.

The major problem I have with this Scott, is I didn't see this huge amount of time and space he was supposed to have been given.......by Leeds...on purpose. I did not see it! He makes time and space himself with his constant movement and his ability to consistently win the ball. I can imagine it would  be practically impossible to mark him successfully.

He made 3 key passes today according to the stats and had 5 successful dribbles with the ball. That alone, from an attacking point of view, is a pretty good return over 90 minutes. Especially when you also consider how much he contributed defensively as well. Our problem most definitely was not N'golo Kante today.

22 minutes ago, Nibs said:

You say that but how many times have we all criticised Kovacic for his play in the final third and his final ball (and shooting)?

I think we have too many players who are similar. Good, but don't cause the opposition enough problems. That's why I wanted to see Gimour get more games as in his brieft time, he has shown that he has the ability to carry the ball and play that decisive pass.

My problem with Kovacic isn't so much his play in the final third, it's just the final ball that is an issue. He's actually pretty decent in those areas as long as he isn't the one playing the final pass, which is frustrating, but I would still take him in that position over Kante because I think he is better at moving the ball on to somebody who is more capable of creating chances. 

Also all this talk about Kante is completely deflecting the attention away from Jorginho's total disappearance for 90 minutes today.

1 hour ago, just said:

Thought he was comfortably our best outfield player today.

Yes, he is not Fabregas, Pirlo or Hoddle with his passing range but neither are any of our other midfielders. That said, I don't think his passing is anywhere near as poor as some make out and the stats do seem to bear that out when comparing the three. 

Kante is one of those players that probably won't be truly appreciated until he is gone.

Fully agreed Just. Man of the match for me

8 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

My problem with Kovacic isn't so much his play in the final third, it's just the final ball that is an issue. He's actually pretty decent in those areas as long as he isn't the one playing the final pass, which is frustrating, but I would still take him in that position over Kante because I think he is better at moving the ball on to somebody who is more capable of creating chances. 

That's what I touched on earlier. We have a lot of good players but we need one who is better in other areas - ie. being creative and able to play killer passes.

But Kante is without doubt the best "all rounder". Winning / nicking ball off opponents, running with it, best defensive, most energy.................

Kanté made the most passes today, therefore he is the best at passing.

Honestly cant fathom those who think he was MOTM - feels like I was watching a different game.

The pros and cons of his game today.

Pros:

1) He won possession a fair few times and carried the ball forward into the middle third of the pitch.

2) He rarely lost possession

3) He had a shot.

Cons:

1) Although he carried the ball forward, his indecision and dallying on the ball , regularly holding onto possession for far too long, allowed Leeds to get back into shape over and over again. 1 or 2 touches will do Kante. Get the ball, and move it on quickly!

2) He failed every time (at least I don't remember a single time) to spot a forward runner and try to pass the ball into space for them.

3) IF he did see the runners, he refused to play the pass, instead choosing the lazy or easy option by passing sideways or backwards. He played it far too safe. If he isn't meant to be the creator, then he needs to transition the ball to those creative players further up the pitch, instead of passing sideways or backwards the majority of the time.

5) When through on goal, albeit from a less than perfect angle, he bottled the shot, instead choosing to try and pass it into a crowded 6 yrd box.

 

Like others have said, I don't blame him for this, as he is being asked to do stuff that isn't his natural game....but that still doesn't mean he gets a free pass, and I genuinely have no idea why some would think he was MOTM. He was utterly ineffective with the ball. 

MOTM for me was Mendy, followed by Rudiger - would also put Azpi, Christensen, Mason, CHO and Kai ahead of him.

 

 

44 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Honestly cant fathom those who think he was MOTM - feels like I was watching a different game.

The pros and cons of his game today.

Pros:

1) He won possession a fair few times and carried the ball forward into the middle third of the pitch.

2) He rarely lost possession

3) He had a shot.

Cons:

1) Although he carried the ball forward, his indecision and dallying on the ball , regularly holding onto possession for far too long, allowed Leeds to get back into shape over and over again. 1 or 2 touches will do Kante. Get the ball, and move it on quickly!

2) He failed every time (at least I don't remember a single time) to spot a forward runner and try to pass the ball into space for them.

3) IF he did see the runners, he refused to play the pass, instead choosing the lazy or easy option by passing sideways or backwards. He played it far too safe. If he isn't meant to be the creator, then he needs to transition the ball to those creative players further up the pitch, instead of passing sideways or backwards the majority of the time.

5) When through on goal, albeit from a less than perfect angle, he bottled the shot, instead choosing to try and pass it into a crowded 6 yrd box.

 

Like others have said, I don't blame him for this, as he is being asked to do stuff that isn't his natural game....but that still doesn't mean he gets a free pass, and I genuinely have no idea why some would think he was MOTM. He was utterly ineffective with the ball. 

MOTM for me was Mendy, followed by Rudiger - would also put Azpi, Christensen, Mason, CHO and Kai ahead of him.

 

 

👏

Are we really doing this again? I thought he did his usual good job winning the ball and distributing. 

There were four attacking players on (three of whom cost us 160m between them) and we're really criticising Kante for us not scoring?

Some people will us any opportunity to push an agenda. 

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Are we really doing this again? I thought he did his usual good job winning the ball and distributing. 

There were four attacking players on (three of whom cost us 160m between them) and we're really criticising Kante for us not scoring?

Some people will us any opportunity to push an agenda. 

Completely agree. He did his role well, the issue was that he was the only midfielder today, and by the looks of it he also was the only attacking player. Today, if anything, surely it wasn’t on Kante.

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Are we really doing this again? I thought he did his usual good job winning the ball and distributing. 

There were four attacking players on (three of whom cost us 160m between them) and we're really criticising Kante for us not scoring?

Some people will us any opportunity to push an agenda. 

End of the day for me Kante at his best, as Jim put forward, protects our defence and disrupts the other sides play. Sounds like he did that.

We owe it to Mendy however we kept a clean sheet so cannot see how anyone else could be man of the match, however that also reflects on the back 4 plus Kante and Jorgi, they did their jobs perfectly in that regard. Between the front 4 they should have done more.

A bit sloppy on the ball but overall a decent performance. Yet again resting him in a match that didn't suit him has paid off, this performance doesn't happen if he played the full 90 Vs Everton.

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

End of the day for me Kante at his best, as Jim put forward, protects our defence and disrupts the other sides play. Sounds like he did that.

We owe it to Mendy however we kept a clean sheet so cannot see how anyone else could be man of the match, however that also reflects on the back 4 plus Kante and Jorgi, they did their jobs perfectly in that regard. Between the front 4 they should have done more.

Broadly we defended okay. Mendy made a couple of good saves but we would have been unlucky to concede. 

I won't pillory our attackers either I have to say. Ziyech popped some neat balls through and Havertz did well also. Biggest issue was we didn't have that player with the strikers instinct to get on the end of them. Of all the attackers I thought Mount had the off game. For me if Tammy starts it felt like the type of game he'd have scored in.

Played fantastic today. When you got Havertz missing great opportunities and the rest failing to do nothing else, its unfair to criticise Ngolo. If his attacking proweess is so bad then the 4 players on the pitch that it comes naturally to should be showing the world and Kante what playing a killer pass, scoring a goal and creating devastating attacks look like. Unfortunately they are not and do nothing for long periods.

6 hours ago, Argo said:

A bit sloppy on the ball but overall a decent performance. Yet again resting him in a match that didn't suit him has paid off, this performance doesn't happen if he played the full 90 Vs Everton.

We will need him to play good vs Atletico too so hopefully he will manage to rest for the Atletico game as well.

In this more free role while having a DM behind him he always plays the best games, if we keep the back 4 formation Kovacic will need to play behind him, though I also hope that we go back to a back 3 formation where both him and Kovacic will have more freedom to run with the ball.