I wouldn't sell him, just keep him on the bench until we need him against the likes of Atletico, City, etc. 

It used to be that when Kante played, he made others play better, and looked like there were 2 of him on the field.

 

At the moment, I am not sure that he makes anyone play or look better. 
 

He is still good at tackling and nicking the ball away from the opposition, but the rest of his play ( passing, vision, creativity, goal threat, decision making) has regressed significantly, to the extent that it can b me argued that he makes the current team look worse. 
 

 

 

 

Kante is an interesting topic because in my view both sides of the arguement are right in many ways.

Because some people were watching the Southampton game and correctly saw he did great at winning the ball back and intercepting. He had 13 ball recoveries, including 4 interceptions which is great obviously. So no problems there.

But then you have the other side who thinks his ability on the ball is an issue and an hinderance to ourselves. Because while he had 13 recoveries yesterday he also lost possession 23 against Southampton. Successful pass % at 78, 1 of 4 long balls accurate and 0 key passes.

So while he did great at recovering the ball yesterday he gave it away a lot more. And didn't create anything and had a terrible pass %.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Kante is an interesting topic because in my view both sides of the arguement are right in many ways.

Because some people were watching the Southampton game and correctly saw he did great at winning the ball back and intercepting. He had 13 ball recoveries, including 4 interceptions which is great obviously. So no problems there.

But then you have the other side who thinks his ability on the ball is an issue and an hinderance to ourselves. Because while he had 13 recoveries yesterday he also lost possession 23 against Southampton. Successful pass % at 78, 1 of 4 long balls accurate and 0 key passes.

So while he did great at recovering the ball yesterday he gave it away a lot more. And didn't create anything and had a terrible pass %.

This is correct and sloppy passing in the final third( not just by him) didn't help our cause at all. One our problems though is that our midfield isn't very good once it reaches the final third, no matter the combination. 

5 hours ago, just said:

You may have seen that. I certainly haven't. And I hazard a guess that a significant proportion of other posters on here haven't either.

But don't let the stop you.

PS: I wouldn't judge anyone on the Barnsley game. Have you ever played on a surface like that? Even Messi would have struggled to look good on that.

Yet the performance has been repeatedly used as a stick to beat Tuchel with.

Can't have it both ways!

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Many people are unhappy about Kante. Yet he keep starting for us under conte, sarri, lamp.  

Because under Conte and to an extent Sarri he was still in his prime, he isn't anymore.

It's like saying Inter fans shouldn't be unhappy about Alexis Sanchez because Guardiola and Wenger picked him.

45 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Kante is an interesting topic because in my view both sides of the arguement are right in many ways.

Because some people were watching the Southampton game and correctly saw he did great at winning the ball back and intercepting. He had 13 ball recoveries, including 4 interceptions which is great obviously. So no problems there.

But then you have the other side who thinks his ability on the ball is an issue and an hinderance to ourselves. Because while he had 13 recoveries yesterday he also lost possession 23 against Southampton. Successful pass % at 78, 1 of 4 long balls accurate and 0 key passes.

So while he did great at recovering the ball yesterday he gave it away a lot more. And didn't create anything and had a terrible pass %.

Said in the match thread yesterday. First 30 minutes Kante rolled back the clock, the following hour he demonstrated exactly why he should be a squad player going forward.

Seeing Kova hauled off and not him was incredibly frustrating and I really hope that was with the upcoming big games in mind because the alternative is stressing me out, it's been truly unbearable him remaining an untouchable like it's still 2016.

Rumour has it that a couple of big clubs were in for him last summer, even then I’d have let him go, the role he plays has taken his toll on him and he’s nowhere near the player we signed.

He also doesn’t fit the system we’ve played for the past 3 seasons, for me it would be thanks for the memories and goodbye.

I think that if we switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 Kante will be at his best.

And honestly if we can play Alonso and CHO as wingbacks we can play Pulisic and CHO as LM and RM just as well.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

I think that if we switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 Kante will be at his best.

He'd be at his best if we switched from possession too a more pragmatic approach. Had we hired Allegri (not saying we should have) instead of Tuchel or brought Conte back for example i'd bet you a lot of money Kante would look great again. Unfortunately for Kante our last three managers have all been possession-based and the results has been that he's been nowhere near as good as he was in 2017 and 2018.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think that if we switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 Kante will be at his best.

And honestly if we can play Alonso and CHO as wingbacks we can play Pulisic and CHO as LM and RM just as well.

If we switch to 4 at the back what would be your preferred back 4? I assume based on what we have seen in the past Alonso would be nowhere near LB. If we play with 2 wingers then we definitely need 2 energetic options in the middle. So Kante and Kova?

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

Kante is an interesting topic because in my view both sides of the arguement are right in many ways.

Because some people were watching the Southampton game and correctly saw he did great at winning the ball back and intercepting. He had 13 ball recoveries, including 4 interceptions which is great obviously. So no problems there.

But then you have the other side who thinks his ability on the ball is an issue and an hinderance to ourselves. Because while he had 13 recoveries yesterday he also lost possession 23 against Southampton. Successful pass % at 78, 1 of 4 long balls accurate and 0 key passes.

So while he did great at recovering the ball yesterday he gave it away a lot more. And didn't create anything and had a terrible pass %.

Actually spent an hour researching Kante and Jorginho's passing stats in the EPL this season. Makes interesting reading if stats are your thing.

Pass success percentage Jorginho 89% Kante 86.7%

Average passes per game: Jorginho 61.1 Kante 55.5

Long balls per game Jorginho 2.6 Kante 2.9

Key passes Jorginho 0.8 Kante 0.8

Assists Jorginho 1 Kante 1

So even analysing solely on the basis of Jorginho's alleged key strength, his passing, there is not much difference in their figures. And no difference at all in terms of key passes.

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

He'd be at his best if we switched from possession too a more pragmatic approach. Had we hired Allegri (not saying we should have) instead of Tuchel or brought Conte back for example i'd bet you a lot of money Kante would look great again. Unfortunately for Kante our last three managers have all been possession-based and the results has been that he's been nowhere near as good as he was in 2017 and 2018.

Yes I agree but these days a 4-4-2 is still a good counter-attacking formation. I think even Ancelotti said it. Werner would also have more space to work with in a counter attack, we don't need to have 60+ possession if we cover the areas good.

2 hours ago, forbzy said:

If we switch to 4 at the back what would be your preferred back 4? I assume based on what we have seen in the past Alonso would be nowhere near LB. If we play with 2 wingers then we definitely need 2 energetic options in the middle. So Kante and Kova?

It would be Chilwell and James that would get help defensively from CHO and in part from Pulisic. T.Silva and Zouma/Christensen and Mount + Kante and Werner with another striker up top like Tammy for me, fluid total football. 

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Yes I agree but these days a 4-4-2 is still a good counter-attacking formation. I think even Ancelotti said it. Werner would also have more space to work with in a counter attack, we don't need to have 60+ possession if we cover the areas good.

A move away from slow possession based football to a faster counter attacking football would suit a lot of players in the squad, it would play to Kantes strengths. Arguably, only Jorginho would be fully redundant playing that way. Unfortunately, we have seen a constant desire from many to move away from that style - and i cant see it happening anytime soon.

Aguero and Fernandinho were like Kante bonafide world class in their prime but have now been relegated to rotation roles because their present day level simply doesn't justify the untouchable status they previously enjoyed.

Compare that to how we keep shoehorning Kante in ahead of better/more suitable players and it's night and day.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Aguero and Fernandinho were like Kante bonafide world class in their prime but have now been relegated to rotation roles because their present day level simply doesn't justify the untouchable status they previously enjoyed.

Compare that to how we keep shoehorning Kante in ahead of better/more suitable players and it's night and day.

Fernandinho would start every match bar for age

1 minute ago, charierre said:

Fernandinho would start every match bar for age

He started every match when he was at the top level of performance and now he's not has been given a more suitable role.

Kante may be a few years younger but the principle is the same, bonafide world class at his peak but just simply isn't at the level anymore. The last two season's Jorginho, Kovacic, Gilmour, Mount and even Barkley have all proven better fits for the system, especially against teams that set up to frustrate us yet whenever he's fit he not only seems to play unconditionally but be immune to being replaced aswell.

Hopefully his inclusion against Southampton was rotation and Tuchel hasn't fallen into the exact same trap Lampard did.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

He started every match when he was at the top level of performance and now he's not has been given a more suitable role.

Kante may be a few years younger but the principle is the same, bonafide world class at his peak but just simply isn't at the level anymore. The last two season's Jorginho, Kovacic, Gilmour, Mount and even Barkley have all proven better fits for the system, especially against teams that set up to frustrate us yet whenever he's fit he not only seems to play unconditionally but be immune to being replaced aswell.

Hopefully his inclusion against Southampton was rotation and Tuchel hasn't fallen into the exact same trap Lampard did.

Judging from the gushing Kante stories that are hitting the club web site today ... it would appear not !

All seems a bit "Emperor's New Clothes" to me 🙂

Perhaps they are trying to talk his value up LOL

Still a very good player. Its not his fault our attacking players can't create and score chances amongst  themselves 

Him and Kovacic must be right up there when it comes to athletic, hard working and hard pressing midfielders, who can run back and forth around the pitch all day but once they reach the opposition box they get the final ball and finishing of Werner...

6 hours ago, Argo said:

Aguero and Fernandinho were like Kante bonafide world class in their prime but have now been relegated to rotation roles because their present day level simply doesn't justify the untouchable status they previously enjoyed.

Compare that to how we keep shoehorning Kante in ahead of better/more suitable players and it's night and day.

Fernadinho is 35, he has left his peak like 5 years ago but If fernandinho is still 32, no way in hell Pep will pick Rodri over fernandinho. 

 

8 hours ago, Sindre said:

He'd be at his best if we switched from possession too a more pragmatic approach. Had we hired Allegri (not saying we should have) instead of Tuchel or brought Conte back for example i'd bet you a lot of money Kante would look great again. Unfortunately for Kante our last three managers have all been possession-based and the results has been that he's been nowhere near as good as he was in 2017 and 2018.

Kante is one of the best ball winner in the world, if you don't lose the ball you don't have chance to win the ball back as often so of course he won't look as good as before.

Does he suit possession football? Probably not. Can you make it work? Absolutely, it is easy, just look at city with fernandinho. 

If we want to play tippy tappy football and you want very technical midfielder it is fine. You play xavi or Fabregas over Kante, no one will ever complain. But tippy tappy football with Jorginho over kante, that is a problem

 

18 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Kante is one of the best ball winner in the world, if you don't lose the ball you don't have chance to win the ball back as often so of course he won't look as good as before.

Does he suit possession football? Probably not. Can you make it work? Absolutely, it is easy, just look at city with fernandinho. 

If we want to play tippy tappy football and you want very technical midfielder it is fine. You play xavi or Fabregas over Kante, no one will ever complain. But tippy tappy football with Jorginho over kante, that is a problem

 

Ah if we had Cesc, Ballack and Lampard that would be perfect.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

Fernadinho is 35, he has left his peak like 5 years ago but If fernandinho is still 32, no way in hell Pep will pick Rodri over fernandinho. 

 

Not if his level dropped he wouldn't have.

Aguero is 32, one of the best strikers in PL history and is currently barely getting any minutes even when available. Many manager's would have put their fingers in their ears gone "form is temporary class is permanent" and shoehorned him back in somehow, Pep on the other hand realised it's 2021 not 2018.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by Argo