17 minutes ago, barak81 said:

Regarding the top defender but I have a couple of points.

 

1) I think he's better then Cahill and Ivan by the way. 

2) I think 30 mill on him is better then 60 being talked about for koubali for me

3) and this is key ... Would you say that either gullit or hoddle ages 35ish where any better as defenders. If conte is looking to play 3, Luiz could turn out to be a huge success sweeping up and it seems that conte wants to go from front to back very quickly, terry is an excellent passer of the ball but Cahill is not great with the range , Luiz offers another that can release players quickly 

 

Good points. Like you, I'd have Luiz ahead of Cahill, but in defence of Cahill, although he's not the best, and limited with the ball, he doesn't give away needless penalties and free-kicks, which Luiz does, neither does he go running into midfield and leave massive gaps behind, which Luiz does. Just's right of course, he isn't a top defender. I'd feel a lot more worried about him if Terry gets injured.

 

Many times I'd watch a game and Luiz would be the best player on the park, sometimes by a clear distance. Then he'd do something really silly, take a liberty and get caught out and leave us exposed. I'd often find myself saying, "He's not a defender".

 

When we first got linked with him this time around I wasn't particularly pleased but now I can see the sense in it given the situation we were in. Luiz fits what Conte wants to do, as you say, and early impressions suggest Conte's no mug, but we will see. This is a risky signing, no doubt about it. Luiz will play. Conte wanted a CB all summer long and was prepared to spend 40m+ to get one. That means he wants to change something within the team, that means somebody's going to miss out, whether he switches to a 3 or not.

 

Conte obviously feels there's something there he can work with. Let's just hope he's proved right.

24 minutes ago, just said:

There is still no one prepared to stick their hand up and say he is a top quality defender. No one will. Because he isn't. 

 

You're right, nobody is really disagreeing with you, I can't see anyone claiming he's a top defender really, just supporters trying to put a brave face on it, what does it achieve if we all admit he's not that good ? 

1 minute ago, coco said:

You're right, nobody is really disagreeing with you, I can't see anyone claiming he's a top defender really, just supporters trying to put a brave face on it, what does it achieve if we all admit he's not that good ? 

Fair play. I know Coco. I am struggling big time with this one. The fact that no matter which way I look at it, I can't understand the signing at all is my only defence. The only comparison I would have is if we had signed Mario Ballotelli. Like WTF? 

Hope I am wrong mate, and you and everyone else are right. But Christ I am shatting myself with the thought of Luiz in our back four.

12 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Good points. Like you, I'd have Luiz ahead of Cahill, but in defence of Cahill, although he's not the best, and limited with the ball, he doesn't give away needless penalties and free-kicks, which Luiz does, neither does he go running into midfield and leave massive gaps behind, which Luiz does. Just's right of course, he isn't a top defender. I'd feel a lot more worried about him if Terry gets injured.

 

Many times I'd watch a game and Luiz would be the best player on the park, sometimes by a clear distance. Then he'd do something really silly, take a liberty and get caught out and leave us exposed. I'd often find myself saying, "He's not a defender".

 

When we first got linked with him this time around I wasn't particularly pleased but now I can see the sense in it given the situation we were in. Luiz fits what Conte wants to do, as you say, and early impressions suggest Conte's no mug, but we will see. This is a risky signing, no doubt about it. Luiz will play. Conte wanted a CB all summer long and was prepared to spend 40m+ to get one. That means he wants to change something within the team, that means somebody's going to miss out, whether he switches to a 3 or not.

 

Conte obviously feels there's something there he can work with. Let's just hope he's proved right.

Davey, don't agree with you on this one but appreciate, as ever, your opinion and rationale.

1 minute ago, just said:

Fair play. I know Coco. I am struggling big time with this one. The fact that no matter which way I look at it, I can't understand the signing at all is my only defence. The only comparison I would have is if we had signed Mario Ballotelli. Like WTF? 

Hope I am wrong mate, and you and everyone else are right. But Christ I am shatting myself with the thought of Luiz in our back four.

I little bit of hope can be taken from the fact we have a top top top Italian coach, if he can't muster Luiz into something that resembles a defender, nobody will mate.

8 minutes ago, just said:

Davey, don't agree with you on this one but appreciate, as ever, your opinion and rationale.

 

It could be worse just, we could have re-signed Torres.

 

Be grateful for small mercies, that's what I always say.

Roman, if you're reading, don't get any funny ideas.

4 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Roman, if you're reading, don't get any funny ideas.

That is not funny.

Since Arsenal last scored a EPL goal vs Chelsea: 
David Luiz has left Chelsea, signed for PSG, won two league titles & re-signed for Chelsea....

 

1 hour ago, just said:

 And Luiz as a defender? There is still no one prepared to stick their hand up and say he is a top quality defender. No one will. Because he isn't. 

I think Luiz is a top defender, always have, same way I think Pique and Ramos are top defenders even though they are prone to the odd mistake like Luiz. 

Seen way too many games where Luiz has defended brilliantly to not think he is a top defender. 

37 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

It could be worse just, we could have re-signed Torres.

 

Well one positive bit of news w/ Torres playing for CFC, we won an European Cup

2 hours ago, coco said:

I little bit of hope can be taken from the fact we have a top top top Italian coach, if he can't muster Luiz into something that resembles a defender, nobody will mate.

He's played under Ancelotti, Blanc and Mourinho. Top class managers (and a former world-class centre back). If he hasn't learned to defend yet i don't see it happening.

Still happy to have him back though, he's a nice lad

Would not have been near the top of my list for our new CB. However I will trust in conte,  and am smiling about this signing now. He is a bit mental, but a Chelsea kind of mental and I like those personalities in our locker room, just like wisey and jfh used to be. 

6 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

Since Arsenal last scored a EPL goal vs Chelsea: 
David Luiz has left Chelsea, signed for PSG, won two league titles & re-signed for Chelsea....

 

 

 

Well, since Arsenal last won the league: Jose came, Jose left, Matic came, David came, Matic left, Jose came, Matic came, David left, Jose left and David came back again :)

Comparing Luiz to either Torres or Balotelli is waaay off. As said, Luiz performs 98% of the time and does what he is told and he does it well. It is the 2% that usually sticks with people and gives Luiz a bit of a reputation. If Conte can drop that to 1% we have a very good player in our hands. 

 

@just

 

just cant entirely agree with you, if we want to mention pros, several have also stated they could see him thriving in the sweeper system, main reason being there is less emphasis on marking . Even you your self have posted that he did a very decent job playing in DM a position that also requires a lot of positional accuman. My personnel opinion is that he's not as bad as made out and I am actually very much looking forward to what he does bring to the picture . Many people will say, (including me) " well if passion is all you need them let's have xx in" seems effort and passion should be a given , but some how 20 odd players failed to show some last season so  it seems to have jumped the list a bit in. Desired qualitya

my only concern is, where does this leave zouma and christensen for the future? i would much rather luiz next to kante in all honesty and then buy another cb next summer. 

11 minutes ago, enigma said:

my only concern is, where does this leave zouma and christensen for the future? i would much rather luiz next to kante in all honesty and then buy another cb next summer. 

I don't think it really affects their future too much. I expect Zouma to still be getting in the first team despite this signing. And with Terry, cahill and ivanovic all ageing there is plenty of opportunity for young defenders to earn their first team spot in the next few years. In that respect, signing a 29 year old guy like Luiz is actually more promising for them than if we'd have got Stones or Koulibaly who would have been first team players for much longer and only left 1 cb spot for our young lads to compete for

35 minutes ago, enigma said:

my only concern is, where does this leave zouma and christensen for the future? i would much rather luiz next to kante in all honesty and then buy another cb next summer. 

Zouma now should be trained as a solid ball winner, mold him into the perfect partner for a ball playing centre back. Currently that would be Luiz, in the future it should be Christensen. 

Edited September 3, 20169 yr by dkw

18 hours ago, just said:

Decision making isn't even his biggest fault! He is 3/10 in that skillset but on positional sense he is 1/10. He has all the defensive positional sense of Stevie Wonder on speed. And as for marking! He couldn't mark a man with a giant felt tip pen.

He can pass the ball, he is semi-decent in the air and I don't doubt his passion, but none of that masks the fact he can't defend with the required levels of focus, discipline, concentration or consistency.

 

Now that he is lumbered with him I hope Conte can do something with Roman's latest preferred choice, give him a go in midfield maybe? But he won't be able to make him defend properly. Unless he can give him a brain transplant.

Incidentally, on the good for the dressing thing, Mark Schwartzer on Talksport radio the other morning suggested that Luiz had fallen out with some members of the squad by the time he went. Not that it matters, but that arguably shows not everybody loved him. Probably the rest of the defence that had to play alongside him I should imagine.

@just Ok, you think he is sh*t, I get it, but in my opinion you are massively overplaying his weaknesses whilst undervaluing his assets to suit your argument now; case in point in terms of the hyperbole I am talking about. 

Never the less, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. Let's agree to disagree. 

May I ask though, do you any credible evidence to back up your suggestion that Abramovich forced this signing upon Conte seemingly against his will? 

My opinion on whos signing this is pretty straight forward, we were alerted that Luiz was available and wanted to return. Conte was asked if he would be happy with him and ok`d the signing. We signed him.

Perhaps his wild play, ( which i generally liked) will be behind him and hopefully he will fit into our latest line up...Ill wish him well....FOR NOW....

19 hours ago, just said:

 on positional sense he is 1/10. He has all the defensive positional sense of Stevie Wonder on speed.

how often have you seen Luiz play? this is just ridiculous! if his positional sense is so bad why does he make so many interceptions then?

I can't believe people rate Stones A LOT higher than Luiz, does it take just one Cruyff turn before your wetting your pants ? have you actually watched Stones defending without the ball last season ? Did you see him get ripped apart by Aguero in January? Some more...

Everton 1-2 Swansea, Premier League, January 24. Put under pressure by Wayne Routledge deep inside his own half, Stones opted to pass the ball back to goalkeeper Tim Howard inside of clearing it long. The American failed to spot Andre Ayew lurking and brought him down for a penalty, which Gylfi Sigurdsson converted. Pulled out of position by Ayew's clever movement, Stones was forced to throw himself in the way of the former Marseille man's strike. He failed to block it completely, instead sending the ball over Howard and into the back of his own net. It would prove to be the winning goal. 

Everton 1-1 Tottenham, Premier League, January 3. While the majority of blame for Dele Alli's equaliser fell on the shoulders of Coleman after he failed to track the youngster's run, Stones simply watched as Toby Alderweireld's long pass floated over his head and onto the chest of the former MK Dons midfielder, who finished in style.

Everton 3-4 Stoke, Premier League, December 28. After fighting back to take a 3-2 lead against the Potters, a mistake by Howard meant Everton were heading for a point as the game entered its final minutes. But then Marko Arnautovic burst past Stones inside the hosts' box and the Everton defender brought him down with a last-ditch tackle. Replays showed he got a toe to the ball, but it was still a reckless challenge. The Austrian converted from the spot and the Toffees were left with nothing to show for their efforts.

Everton 2-3 Leicester, Premier League, December 19. On another disappointing afternoon at Goodison Park, Stones found himself bamboozled by the movement of England team-mate Jamie Vardy, who ran in behind him to collect a pinpoint through ball. Howard brought down the former non-League striker and Riyad Mahrez dispatched his second penalty of the afternoon as Leicester won again.

Everton 6-2 Sunderland, Premier League, November 1. Stones appeared in little danger when a long ball forward made its way towards him in first-half added time. But the former Barnsley youngster was slow to react, allowing Jermain Defoe to nip in front of him. The Black Cats striker lifted the ball over Ramiro Funes Mori and evaded a challenge from Stones to score his side's first goal.

Everton 2-2 Watford, Premier League, August 8. Stones was at fault on the opening day of the season when he chucked himself to the turf to try and block a shot from Odion Ighalo. The Watford striker instead turned inside and smashed the ball low into the back of the net, despite another desperate lunge from the young centre back. 

 

Stones is no where near as good as Luiz, and i dont think he ever will be as good.