3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I'm not taking his side, I just disagreed with what Dan said. People need to stop taking all this inside info as if its gospel. Conveniently people do it when it suits them. We don't know the inner details unfortunately. 

I think it's evident that Lampard lost the players, but for what reason I don't know, as far as his managerial rating goes I would give him a good one considering his first season here was a success. And I thought he handled youth integration and senior players well enough. 

One thing though, I do not criticise Frank on the basis of what some journalist on Twitter says. As much as I dislike Rudiger as a person and a player, I still didn't go there because there's no evidence. 

I agree in this with you, though I don't think he lost the players. Maybe some of them were not happy (I don't have any doubt that Alonso wasn't happy with Frank), but I don't think that the whole squad were against him. We'll probably never know.

I dont blame Lampard for wanting to move on Jorginho, Rudiger and Alonso. Dont rate any of them and there's better options in the squad. Lampard mostly played a back 4 and Alonso is terrible in a back 4, plus his behaviour against West Brom was bang out of order. 

55 minutes ago, RMH said:

I agree in this with you, though I don't think he lost the players. Maybe some of them were not happy (I don't have any doubt that Alonso wasn't happy with Frank), but I don't think that the whole squad were against him. We'll probably never know.

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

A few butt hurt players, not the majority, that's all it takes. They don't play for the fans, they pretend to love the club and kiss the badge, but were not daft.

4 minutes ago, coco said:

A few butt hurt players, not the majority, that's all it takes. They don't play for the fans, they pretend to love the club and kiss the badge, but were not daft.

I wouldn't even say that, who was playing well after Leeds besides Thiago Silva? It was only Silva who can say he performed and was playing well. Mount definitely tried and worked his socks off but even Mount was quite average for numerous games, probably doesn't help with the fact that everyone else was playing sh*t along side him. 

The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly. I can't tell if it was confidence or downright laziness or what, the ambition was just sucked dry, they stopped trying to get the ball forward, they stopped making runs, they were just devoid of ideas... The contrast between of November to December is staggering really. I would love to know what actually happened. 

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I wouldn't even say that, who was playing well after Leeds besides Thiago Silva? It was only Silva who can say he performed and was playing well. Mount definitely tried and worked his socks off but even Mount was quite average for numerous games, probably doesn't help with the fact that everyone else was playing sh*t along side him. 

The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly. I can't tell if it was confidence or downright laziness or what, the ambition was just sucked dry, they stopped trying to get the ball forward, they stopped making runs, they were just devoid of ideas... The contrast between of November to December is staggering really. I would love to know what actually happened. 

I think it's very lazy to say so & so was playing sh*t, as you've pointed out Pulisic was returning from injury and Ziyech only returned against City and even at that point it seemed like he was rushed back (Somewhat confirmed by Tuchel on the weekend). Chilwell & James both were out together with injury with rumors coming out Reece might need surgery, with any injury scare players tend to play within themselves upon return and this impacted their performance.

Reports have come out that Kante was also not 100% fit and he has hardly featured since the City game and Werner & Havertz have both struggled pretty much from the get go. I think people just want to put all the blame on Lampard's doorstep without actually taking into account we've got in 6 first teamers and he was having to integrate them without a pre-season and even then the downturn happened during the most congested period in the season. we played 11 games in 5-6 weeks.

The truth is confidence was low and without any real time between games it created a snowball effect, we were not the only ones Liverpool suffered from a similar impact where they appeared completely lost and guess what the moment they had some rest and recuperation the performances in the last 2 games picked up again. Sadly our board placed the blame in the lap of Lampard and sacked him.

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I think it's very lazy to say so & so was playing sh*t, as you've pointed out Pulisic was returning from injury and Ziyech only returned against City and even at that point it seemed like he was rushed back (Somewhat confirmed by Tuchel on the weekend). Chilwell & James both were out together with injury with rumors coming out Reece might need surgery, with any injury scare players tend to play within themselves upon return and this impacted their performance.

Reports have come out that Kante was also not 100% fit and he has hardly featured since the City game and Werner & Havertz have both struggled pretty much from the get go. I think people just want to put all the blame on Lampard's doorstep without actually taking into account we've got in 6 first teamers and he was having to integrate them without a pre-season and even then the downturn happened during the most congested period in the season. we played 11 games in 5-6 weeks.

The truth is confidence was low and without any real time between games it created a snowball effect, we were not the only ones Liverpool suffered from a similar impact where they appeared completely lost and guess what the moment they had some rest and recuperation the performances in the last 2 games picked up again. Sadly our board placed the blame in the lap of Lampard and sacked him.

Some valid points, but that's a lot of excuses and little responsibility. 

3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Some valid points, but that's a lot of excuses and little responsibility. 

I am making excuses for a club legend like Lampard which is understandable but I don't understand fans making excuses for faceless executives who fire Managers at the first sign of trouble.

Edited February 2, 20215 yr by Imran_CFC

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

Well, these performances have come at the period when there has been more congestion of games and one could argue that energy levels were getting low. We are now playing every more days, so players have more time to recover. Also, some players got injured or were coming out of injuries. I'm not saying there wasn't some disagreement from some players, but probably 2 or 3, not more. But, as you said in your earlier comment, we can't know for sure it's all chitchat.

44 minutes ago, RMH said:

Well, these performances have come at the period when there has been more congestion of games and one could argue that energy levels were getting low. We are now playing every more days, so players have more time to recover. Also, some players got injured or were coming out of injuries. I'm not saying there wasn't some disagreement from some players, but probably 2 or 3, not more. But, as you said in your earlier comment, we can't know for sure it's all chitchat.

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

15 minutes ago, Slojo said:

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

Yes, and some other teams had been or are being now piss poor. That players were bad does not mean that they did not play for the manager. As already said, it’s all speculation. Were we bad? Yes. Were players bad? Yes. Were players not happy with the manager? Probably a couple. Was the majority of the team against the manager? Very unlikely.

15 hours ago, Slojo said:

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

That first bit you can't be serious. Most of those matches weren't even the worst this season.  And I know you have an agenda, but to morph an Arsenal side with 2 or 3 first team players missing into an "Arsenal C team" is just disrespectful to our team.

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

.......................................The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly..............................................

 

12 hours ago, Slojo said:

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

But you were one of the most vociferous in here about getting rid of the manager.

I wasn’t saying the 3 players I’ve mentioned have fallen out with Frank and caused tension etc. I think Lampard’s relationship with the board have deteriorated when he couldn’t trim the squad down as he’d have liked.

I wish he’d got it his way, Alonso, Rudiger and Jorginho gone by now would be brilliant.

Of course it’s not gospel from the journalists but I find that one reasonable and makes sense. Jorginho, Alonso and Rudiger haven’t really played much this season for Frank.

Shifting the topic back to Rudiger, I really like him in a back 3 especially when we have Alonso playing LWB because Rudigers pace brings a little balance on the left and even if he commits a brainfart covering Alonso we have 2 CB's to provide protection.

I believe majority of our experienced defenders prefer playing in a wingback system, Alonso, Rudiger and Azpi all are far more comfortable in a back 3 then a back 4, even Thiago can operate more like a regista and step into midfield more often when in a back 3. (Especially when Jorginho is not in the 11 and Kante comes in).

8 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Shifting the topic back to Rudiger, I really like him in a back 3 especially when we have Alonso playing LWB because Rudigers pace brings a little balance on the left and even if he commits a brainfart covering Alonso we have 2 CB's to provide protection.

Problem you've got, is similar to when Cahill used to play there, he prefers to pass using his right foot so any sort of pressure on him and he's going to want to come in side or go backwards. We really would benefit from a two footed or left footed centre back. 

One of our biggest short fallings is the lack of quality all of the current crop of centre backs have when it comes to distribution. Rudiger tries to ping one diagonally from time to time but for the most part he and the others 9 times out of 10 play very safe short passes into feet. 

I do think we need to look at signing a top quality centre back who is capable of range of passing or has the confidence/ability to carry out the ball from the back. 

37 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Problem you've got, is similar to when Cahill used to play there, he prefers to pass using his right foot so any sort of pressure on him and he's going to want to come in side or go backwards. We really would benefit from a two footed or left footed centre back. 

One of our biggest short fallings is the lack of quality all of the current crop of centre backs have when it comes to distribution. Rudiger tries to ping one diagonally from time to time but for the most part he and the others 9 times out of 10 play very safe short passes into feet. 

I do think we need to look at signing a top quality centre back who is capable of range of passing or has the confidence/ability to carry out the ball from the back. 

Yes agree with the point however my statement was more focused on would I prefer him to play in a back 4 or 3 and with Rudiger I would much rather have him play in a back 3 then a back 4. My mind was made up when Rudiger and Christensen were made to look like clowns against West Ham last season.

The distribution point is ever so important in modern football but purely from a defensive standpoint he looks a lot better in a back 3, the alternative currently would be Christensen as his distribution especially the short passes is leagues ahead of Rudiger but I would certainly not like to see him anywhere other then the Central CB in a back 3. 

2 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I wasn’t saying the 3 players I’ve mentioned have fallen out with Frank and caused tension etc. I think Lampard’s relationship with the board have deteriorated when he couldn’t trim the squad down as he’d have liked.

I wish he’d got it his way, Alonso, Rudiger and Jorginho gone by now would be brilliant.

Of course it’s not gospel from the journalists but I find that one reasonable and makes sense. Jorginho, Alonso and Rudiger haven’t really played much this season for Frank.

I don't really see the issue if those players made a complaint. 

In any well run company in the world, if performances dive in a team, then the senior members of that team will be able to communicate what is going well and isn't. 

These players are senior members of the squad, they will have been in successful and failing teams. I want them to be able to communicate what is working and isn't.

Think about your own job, if you think your manager is making bad decisions, not running the team effectively. Then you will complain, you will talk to a member of HR. That doesn't make you a snake. 

Even further, a manager can't just hire and fire at will. I can see why the board they'd be resistant in chopping all the experience from the squad.

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I don't really see the issue if those players made a complaint. 

In any well run company in the world, if performances dive in a team, then the senior members of that team will be able to communicate what is going well and isn't. 

These players are senior members of the squad, they will have been in successful and failing teams. I want them to be able to communicate what is working and isn't.

Think about your own job, if you think your manager is making bad decisions, not running the team effectively. Then you will complain, you will talk to a member of HR. That doesn't make you a snake. 

Even further, a manager can't just hire and fire at will. I can see why the board they'd be resistant in chopping all the experience from the squad.

Yeah, you’ve made a fair point. I suppose the board think it’s too risky to get rid of a lot of experience.

On 02/02/2021 at 12:09, Brutos said:

What is becoming clear it seems Lampard didnt know how to deal with senior players who arent playing.

On 02/02/2021 at 15:55, Brutos said:

 

You guys are so in your bloody feels with lampard f**k me 😂😂😂

He's a limited manager who has limited range it's hard to accept but it is what it is and even with that I wanted him to continue to see if he could turn it around obviously the board didn't think he could and he got sack the genius IQ, brilliant managerial mindno great man management  didn't shine through when it matters so......🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

It’s comments like this that make me laugh when a lot of the foreign supporters claim to be as loyal and die hard fans as the uk fan base that attend games. They’ll never truly get what it meant to have a legend like Lamps leading the team out and can’t even show him respect now he’s gone.

On 03/02/2021 at 09:01, yorkleyblue said:

But you were one of the most vociferous in here about getting rid of the manager.

How does that contradict anything that I said there? I literally said the manager is at fault. 

I've already added more than enough on why I think sacking Lampard was the right decision, I'm not going back over it again. 

8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

It’s comments like this that make me laugh when a lot of the foreign supporters claim to be as loyal and die hard fans as the uk fan base that attend games. They’ll never truly get what it meant to have a legend like Lamps leading the team out and can’t even show him respect now he’s gone.

I am live in the UK 😂😂😂 You know Rule Britania 🇬🇧 🇬🇧🇬🇧

I have been supporting Chelsea before Lampard was a  Chelsea player.

My view of Lampard as player has no bearing on Lampard as a manager, one is world class the other is not.

And even if I was living abroad what does being a international fan have to do with anything

 

3 hours ago, Brutos said:

I am live in the UK 😂😂😂 You know Rule Britania 🇬🇧 🇬🇧🇬🇧

I have been supporting Chelsea before Lampard was a  Chelsea player.

My view of Lampard as player has no bearing on Lampard as a manager, one is world class the other is not.

And even if I was living abroad what does being a international fan have to do with anything

 

‘I am live in the UK’ yeah sure buddy.

do you understand what xenophobia actually is or are you just using big words to look smart? Surprised you’ve not chucked the racist card out there too. Saying foreign fans don’t have the same connection to a club as actual match going fans isn’t you absolutely numpty.

54 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

‘I am live in the UK’ yeah sure buddy.

do you understand what xenophobia actually is or are you just using big words to look smart? Surprised you’ve not chucked the racist card out there too. Saying foreign fans don’t have the same connection to a club as actual match going fans isn’t you absolutely numpty.

Tbf I don't think Brutos is lying about living in the UK are being from there. 

54 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

‘I am live in the UK’ yeah sure buddy.

do you understand what xenophobia actually is or are you just using big words to look smart? Surprised you’ve not chucked the racist card out there too. Saying foreign fans don’t have the same connection to a club as actual match going fans isn’t you absolutely numpty.

LOL did i hurt your feelings...if i did f**k your feelings dick head.

 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

Tbf I don't think Brutos is lying about living in the UK are being from there. 

Mate dont even bother why would lie about living in the UK.

Worst thing about this my uncle use to live on Britannia Road and he was Spurs fan LOL

I use to take the piss out of him each time I go visit him having Stamford Bridge right at his front door.