1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Trying to calm myself down a bit, and it no doubt helps that we won the game, but he actually wasn't bad defensively besides that horrific mistake he made. I still don't rate him in the slightest though, the sooner he's replaced the better. 

I’m very surprised with how everyone is looking at him after tonight, saying he’s had a decent performance. Personally I think he’s been absolutely shocking and put us under pressure too many times. With him you just don’t know if he’ll lose control of ball or give it to the opposition striker and send him through clean.

He’s a liability and need to get the f*ck out of here ASAP. Roma must have been laughing when we went after him, jeez.

10 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m very surprised with how everyone is looking at him after tonight, saying he’s had a decent performance. Personally I think he’s been absolutely shocking and put us under pressure too many times. With him you just don’t know if he’ll lose control of ball or give it to the opposition striker and send him through clean.

He’s a liability and need to get the f*ck out of here ASAP. Roma must have been laughing when we went after him, jeez.

He was good when we signed him from Roma though. He was pretty decent for us in his first two seasons. 

17 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m very surprised with how everyone is looking at him after tonight, saying he’s had a decent performance. Personally I think he’s been absolutely shocking and put us under pressure too many times. With him you just don’t know if he’ll lose control of ball or give it to the opposition striker and send him through clean.

He’s a liability and need to get the f*ck out of here ASAP. Roma must have been laughing when we went after him, jeez.

There were bad moments from him that went under the radar because they weren't punished, I remember him passing to a player standing still out wide but because he wasn't looking, he passed it in front of him as though he was running on to it. The result was a throw in deep in our half when we were hanging on for the win.
Even though I can't recall every thing he did wrong but my impression was that he didn't have the best of games to have so much praise heaped onto him.

My problem with him in general is that he takes a leadership role but doesn't have a good defensive brain which is a bad combo.

15 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

He was good when we signed him from Roma though. He was pretty decent for us in his first two seasons. 

Yeah he was decent, although Moses also looked decent under Conte.

Conte is such a good manager and managed to make average players look better than they actually are.

He even made David Luiz look like a world beater as the sweeper.

51 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m very surprised with how everyone is looking at him after tonight, saying he’s had a decent performance. Personally I think he’s been absolutely shocking and put us under pressure too many times. With him you just don’t know if he’ll lose control of ball or give it to the opposition striker and send him through clean.

He’s a liability and need to get the f*ck out of here ASAP. Roma must have been laughing when we went after him, jeez.

Defensively he was pretty solid, but on the ball, as he usually is, shakey. And what did he do? Score an awful own goal because he sh*t himself. He's rubbish at playing it out from the back. 

I fully agree with you, Rudiger is a liability, this mistake he made is not an anomaly, Rudiger's defending last season was some of the worst defending I've seen at this club. The only defensive performance that topped it was David Luiz under AVB, that was it. I can't subscribe to this narrative that he was only sh*t because of Kepa, having a sh*t goalkeeper doesn't take away your abillity to correctly man mark. 

I'm pretty sure he was involved in at least 10 errors last season that lead to goal, and he only played through half of it. 

Edited February 8, 20215 yr by Slojo

I still trust him more than Christensen. Can score a header here and there too.

Just before "scoring" I told my son how uncertain feeling I have when Rudiker is playing. You never know what happends when he has the ball. I hope we don't see him on the pitch anymore. 

When will we ever learn that if you want to play 3 at the back and look to play out from the back regularly then the left centre back needs to be left footed!

He looks so clumsy when he lets the ball run across him then has to either try and pass with his week left foot or try to manoeuvre his body round so he can play it with his right. So any time the opposition put any pressure on him it’s an accident waiting to happen.

I know that’s not how the goal came about but it happened a few times in the game.

I have to praise him for his attitude after the mistake, his effort never wained and he made some important blocks. 
 

For me we should go for someone like Mings at villa. He has improved immensely the last season or so (JT influence) and would see us much more balanced. 

After the own goal,  he did everything possible to atone for it. Why can't we have that Rudiger who's switched on,  focused and committed every game? 

1 minute ago, Deino said:

After the own goal,  he did everything possible to atone for it. Why can't we have that Rudiger who's switched on,  focused and committed every game? 

You have to differentiate between Rudiger without the ball, and Rudiger with the ball, one is brilliant, the other is afraid of the ball. 

Just now, coco said:

You have to differentiate between Rudiger without the ball, and Rudiger with the ball, one is brilliant, the other is afraid of the ball. 

Ah, now I get it. 

3 minutes ago, Deino said:

After the own goal,  he did everything possible to atone for it. Why can't we have that Rudiger who's switched on,  focused and committed every game? 

I agree. He had a couple of very good headers away and shut down that chance right at the end. 

This remains the key issue for him. He doesn't strike me as the most serious bloke and occasionally his more laissez-faire approach to football means he loses concentration and makes a mistake. He is imperious when switched on and has all the attributes, but let's himself down with silliness like today.

That is not to excuse Mendy for the own goal. There was no crowd and therefore no excuse not to give a shout and just claim it.

My question is what has big Kurt done wrong to get dumped? He must still just about be our top scorer for the season!

2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

My question is what has big Kurt done wrong to get dumped? He must still just about be our top scorer for the season!

He's probably the least suited to playing in a back 3. He's quite awkward in possession and doesn't have a particularly good range of passing. 

If you're sitting a bit deeper he's a good defender becuase he's good in the air and can make last ditch tackles but when playing on the front foot he's at his weakest. 

I've always found him to be quite positionally poor/indisciplined. 

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

He's probably the least suited to playing in a back 3. He's quite awkward in possession and doesn't have a particularly good range of passing. 

If you're sitting a bit deeper he's a good defender becuase he's good in the air and can make last ditch tackles but when playing on the front foot he's at his weakest. 

I've always found him to be quite positionally poor/indisciplined. 

I said it numerous times in match day threads, he is colossally bad on the ball, and slows the play to such an extent, teams immediately formed defensive ranks, as he pondered on whether to pass it sideways or back, actually defending top notch, but you need more than that these days

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

He's probably the least suited to playing in a back 3. He's quite awkward in possession and doesn't have a particularly good range of passing. 

If you're sitting a bit deeper he's a good defender becuase he's good in the air and can make last ditch tackles but when playing on the front foot he's at his weakest. 

I've always found him to be quite positionally poor/indisciplined. 

But his competition is Rudiger not Virgil Van Dijk, he is most likely marginally inferior to Rudiger on the ball however positionally he is better, defensively he is better and he most definitely is better then Rudiger in the air.

Zouma should be starting ahead of Rudiger. 

Mendy doesn't help him for the own goal, Mendy did that away to Everton and gave away a penalty, nearly did the same VS Fulham away and he did it again tonight. Not saying Rudiger shouldn't still get blamed but Mendy doesn't help, he makes the defenders hesitate when he does that. Ruidger did really well after the own goal too.

6 hours ago, turnyitb said:

When will we ever learn that if you want to play 3 at the back and look to play out from the back regularly then the left centre back needs to be left footed!

He looks so clumsy when he lets the ball run across him then has to either try and pass with his week left foot or try to manoeuvre his body round so he can play it with his right. So any time the opposition put any pressure on him it’s an accident waiting to happen.

I know that’s not how the goal came about but it happened a few times in the game.

I have to praise him for his attitude after the mistake, his effort never wained and he made some important blocks. 
 

For me we should go for someone like Mings at villa. He has improved immensely the last season or so (JT influence) and would see us much more balanced. 

I believe this is why Cahill struggled a bit under Conte. 

I think its clear as day that Rudiger is one of Tuchel's favourites and wont be dropped. Its a shame really because zouma has generally been good this year, and hopefully with Guehi and Tomori possibly coming in next year, I hope everyone is given a fair chance based on ability.

So far I see Azpi, Rudiger and Jorginho as his set favourites, as in they start every game and dont get substitued. It quite ironic because those three players were frozen out under frank, purely because they can often have a bad game based on the opposition. Especially Jorginho and Azpi who struggle against fast, attacking teams, and Rudiger who is so error prone, that the next mistake is just around the corner. 

A 🤡 that shouldn’t be starting over big Kurt. We all know why he’s in the lineup Tickle wanted to bring him to PSG. he ruined my 0-2 prediction yesterday and stopped Tickle being the only manager to get 4 straight clean sheets in the 1st 4 league games . For that alone let’s have Kurt start in the Cup !

On 08/02/2021 at 12:59, Ballack & Blu said:

I said it numerous times in match day threads, he is colossally bad on the ball, and slows the play to such an extent, teams immediately formed defensive ranks, as he pondered on whether to pass it sideways or back, actually defending top notch, but you need more than that these days

Funny how people see things differently. I think Zooms is head and shoulders ahead of Rudiger literally. And also in his range of passing, particularly long balls. Add in the fact that every team benefits from having a centre-back that is aerially dominant and would throw himself in front of bus to get a last ditch block in. 

And he's quicker than Rudiger.

2 hours ago, just said:

Funny how people see things differently. I think Zooms is head and shoulders ahead of Rudiger literally. And also in his range of passing, particularly long balls. Add in the fact that every team benefits from having a centre-back that is aerially dominant and would throw himself in front of bus to get a last ditch block in. 

And he's quicker than Rudiger.

I really hope your jokingly, i think he is up there with one of the worst players to wear our famous Blue, not as a defender as i stated, but someone to fundamentally as a professional footballer lack of the art of passing the ball in a forward direction, he totally slowed play down all the time, something i think Tuchel has quickly identified...

2 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

I really hope your jokingly, i think he is up there with one of the worst players to wear our famous Blue, not as a defender as i stated, but someone to fundamentally as a professional footballer lack of the art of passing the ball in a forward direction, he totally slowed play down all the time, something i think Tuchel has quickly identified...

Nope, not joking at all. Though perhaps it's not surprising Ballack. The list of players we haven't agreed on is pretty long from memory..... Torres, Luiz, Jorginho, we can just add Zouma and Rudiger to the list I suppose.

3 minutes ago, just said:

Nope, not joking at all. Though perhaps it's not surprising Ballack. The list of players we haven't agreed on is pretty long from memory..... Torres, Luiz, Jorginho, we can just add Zouma and Rudiger to the list I suppose.

Hey free will helps the world go round, plus keeps you on ya toes😎

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by Ballack & Blu

3 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Hey free will helps the world go round, plus keeps you on ya toes😎

Absolutely, this forum would be a boring place to be if we all saw everything the same.

I'd love to remember the Arguments where we've Jousted for our Beliefs, def would of Backed Torres, lol