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Callum Hudson-Odoi


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8 hours ago, haviet1 said:

Seems like there some very sensitive grown men in here.

Reality is that this is professional sports at the highest level, where athletes are being paid millions to perform. If you don't perform, you will get criticized. If you're not ready for first team then you will drop down and play with the youth team, go on loan, or sit on the bench until you've proven ready for first team starting minutes. At this point, CHO has  not taken full advtanges of his limited minutes to force Lampard to play him consistently. Pulisic did, and that's why he's starting now. That's the difference between a winner and a champion, versus an average individual.

17 years old Sancho had been starting for Dortmund and putting up impressive numbers. Age is not the issue, performance is. Don't let age be an excuse.

 

Every player is different, some youngsters flourish quickly, some don't. Age is certainly an excuse when you're expecting a youngster to have consistency after coming back from two injuries. He clearly has potential, anybody who watched him last season could see that. 

I would rather give him a chance than write him off, not saying you're doing that, but some people are actually saying it and I think it's insane... Even if he doesn't show up this season he's still a 19 year old by the next season coming on 20, that's very young, time is definitely on his side. 

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9 hours ago, haviet1 said:

Seems like there some very sensitive grown men in here.

Reality is that this is professional sports at the highest level, where athletes are being paid millions to perform. If you don't perform, you will get criticized. If you're not ready for first team then you will drop down and play with the youth team, go on loan, or sit on the bench until you've proven ready for first team starting minutes. At this point, CHO has  not taken full advtanges of his limited minutes to force Lampard to play him consistently. Pulisic did, and that's why he's starting now. That's the difference between a winner and a champion, versus an average individual.

17 years old Sancho had been starting for Dortmund and putting up impressive numbers. Age is not the issue, performance is. Don't let age be an excuse.

 

Performing in the Bundesliga isn't the same as performing in the Prem.

Also, didn't it take Pulisic getting a start to start performing. Pretty sure i remember we were all on Pulisic's back when he was getting scraps at the end of games and doing nothing with it.

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4 hours ago, Slojo said:

Every player is different, some youngsters flourish quickly, some don't. Age is certainly an excuse when you're expecting a youngster to have consistency after coming back from two injuries. He clearly has potential, anybody who watched him last season could see that. 

I would rather give him a chance than write him off, not saying you're doing that, but some people are actually saying it and I think it's insane... Even if he doesn't show up this season he's still a 19 year old by the next season coming on 20, that's very young, time is definitely on his side. 

 

Oh absolutely, He's 18 and deserve his chances and given sometimes. What I am saying is treating him with baby gloves is not going to help him. If he's not performing, he needs to be talked to, criticized and demand improvements. That's the same for everyone. If he's not ready for first 11 in the Chelsea team due to fitness, form, maturity, confidence, whatever; then he doesn't deserve to get on pitch or get free starts.

I do think that if he's still struggling, a short term loan might do him good. Tammy and Mount came back from loans and become starters. I think based on what I've seen so far; he's not ahead of of Willian nor Pulisic. Heck, I might even chose Mount as my 3rd winger over CHO at this moment.

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4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Performing in the Bundesliga isn't the same as performing in the Prem.

Also, didn't it take Pulisic getting a start to start performing. Pretty sure i remember we were all on Pulisic's back when he was getting scraps at the end of games and doing nothing with it.

 

How far off is the Bundi vs the Prem? Really?

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

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47 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

How far off is the Bundi vs the Prem? Really?

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

Bundesliga is a vastly overrated league, carried for years by Bayern and Dortmund. The middle lower end teams play at a standard comparable to the Eredivisie. The pace and intensity is just different gravy. Ligue 1 and Serie A are stronger leagues overall imho.

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1 hour ago, haviet1 said:

 

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

To be fair Sancho became a starter and sent Pulisic to the bench in Bundesliga, that was a big deal, remember that some German fans were totally fine with losing Pulisic.
You're just pointing out a better player, that can be done to 99% of the players.

There is maybe something special about Dortmund's training grounds and there the environment is different from the Premier league, the pressure is just at a lower level.

Hudson-Odoi had an injury and probably feels that he has a chip on his shoulder, every time he gets on he tries to shoot from distance at least twice in 10-15 minutes, I'm not going to say that that behavior isn't normal but that's not how he was last season when he showed that he is a big talent, he could go wide and put in good crosses, basically he was not so much under pressure and had shown a whole variety of skills.

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1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

To be fair Sancho became a starter and sent Pulisic to the bench in Bundesliga,

 

You probably didn't follow Dortmund or watch much of their games last season. There were many reasons why Pulisic did not start all their games last season, and Sancho was the least of that reason.

And I love watching Sancho play, he's a real treat. Many fans wanted to see both Pulisic and Sancho on the field together on opposite wings. 

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2 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

You probably didn't follow Dortmund or watch much of their games last season. There were many reasons why Pulisic did not start all their games last season, and Sancho was the least of that reason.

And I love watching Sancho play, he's a real treat. Many fans wanted to see both Pulisic and Sancho on the field together on opposite wings. 

I didn't but I still fail to see your point here. Sancho was more effective once he got the chance to play.

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1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

I didn't but I still fail to see your point here. Sancho was more effective once he got the chance to play.

Your statement was Sancho puts Pulisic on bench, my argument is that was not extremely accurate.

Sancho plays on the right, Pulisic, Guerrero, and Larsen fights for the left wing spot.

Reasons why Pulisic didn't start majority of Dortmund games last season.

1 - Injuries. He was out injured at least 3-4 times last year. Several weeks at a time

2 - Favre preferred a more defensive player on the left wing while he has a purely offensive threat on the right wing (Sancho). Larsen and Guerrro offer more defensive bites. whether that really is the case is up for debate and depends on whom you ask. Therefore Pulisic shares minutes between Larsen and Guererro.

3 - Pulisic was sold in January. Was there great incentive for Favre to give Pulisic more minutes? A player that's not going to be around next season.

Anyway, at the end of the season, Pulisic got his starting role back as Dortmund was loosing games and dropping points. Most fans wanted to see both Pulisic and Sancho on the field together.

Overall, Pulisic played in 20 games (starting half of them) and 900+ minutes for Dortmund last year. He wasn't simply a player that just sat on the bench. 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

Your statement was Sancho puts Pulisic on bench, my argument is that was not extremely accurate.

Sancho plays on the right, Pulisic, Guerrero, and Larsen fights for the left wing spot.

Reasons why Pulisic didn't start majority of Dortmund games last season.

1 - Injuries. He was out injured at least 3-4 times last year. Several weeks at a time

2 - Favre preferred a more defensive player on the left wing while he has a purely offensive threat on the right wing (Sancho). Larsen and Guerrro offer more defensive bites. whether that really is the case is up for debate and depends on whom you ask. Therefore Pulisic shares minutes between Larsen and Guererro.

3 - Pulisic was sold in January. Was there great incentive for Favre to give Pulisic more minutes? A player that's not going to be around next season.

Anyway, at the end of the season, Pulisic got his starting role back as Dortmund was loosing games and dropping points. Most fans wanted to see both Pulisic and Sancho on the field together.

Overall, Pulisic played in 20 games (starting half of them) and 900+ minutes for Dortmund last year. He wasn't simply a player that just sat on the bench. 

 

 

Right, Pulisic was injured, his form was up and down and he was inconsistant, but to your argument that after it was known that he would be sold, you know very well that if he was playing like Sancho he would be getting more minutes regardless if everyone knew that he wasn't going to be a part of the team next season! Specially since they had hopes to win the title at that point.

An 18 year old took over the show, this is also a fact, my point is that Sancho was having better performances, he was simply the better player, so lets not overlook that part.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Right, Pulisic was injured, his form was up and down and he was inconsistant, but to your argument that after it was known that he would be sold, you know very well that if he was playing like Sancho he would be getting more minutes regardless if everyone knew that he wasn't going to be a part of the team next season! Specially since they had hopes to win the title at that point.

An 18 year old took over the show, this is also a fact, my point is that Sancho was having better performances, he was simply the better player, so lets not overlook that part.

 

 

That I will agreed with you. Sancho absolutely had a better season than Pulisic last year for Dortmund. No doubt.

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19 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

That I will agreed with you. Sancho absolutely had a better season than Pulisic last year for Dortmund. No doubt.

Sancho, had a breakout season last year, Pulisic more so the year before. That being said Pulisic had already signed for us in the January window and I wonder if his form suffered after that. Certainly the manager may have been inclined to play Sancho over him at that point, knowing that Pulisic was off in the summer.

Overall I think we are comparing 3 players with a lot of potential, none of which are yet the finished article. I've been impressed with Sancho though, also in his performances for England.

I think Frank handled Pulisic well earlier in the season, even when he was under pressure to start the big signing. Likewise I think Frank is handling CHO well too. He has given him a couple of starts, mostly in cup games, but CHO will have to earn his starts. His injury undoubtedly set him back but hopefully he fill find confidence and form again soon.

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6 hours ago, haviet1 said:

 

How far off is the Bundi vs the Prem? Really?

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

Very far off. Bayern is probably on par with us, Dortmund maybe on par with Spurs, the rest of the league play at about a low Championship level.

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6 hours ago, haviet1 said:

 

How far off is the Bundi vs the Prem? Really?

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

Well the EPL players have done well enough that all English clubs are going to the round of 16.... not so with the German clubs...... Not that I think I'd use that as the best metric here

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30 minutes ago, Argo said:

He also excelled here for the first 6 months.

I still can't properly work out what the hell went wrong.

I think he did very well in Conte's three,  as it's a different role. Similar to Luiz.

I think in a two your marking, decision-making and crirtically your physicality is a bigger issue. It's the inability to really manage the physical stuff that has hurt Andreas. I think he'll do very well in a different league, but as of right now with Tomori emerging and homegrown he would be my choice to be sold if we were moving anyone at the back on.

As for Sancho, he is a top player but is having his challenges as more teams watch him more and work him out. Similar to CHO who was unknown a year ago. Both will have to develop further as footballers to really make it and live up to their undoubted potential.

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10 hours ago, haviet1 said:

 

How far off is the Bundi vs the Prem? Really?

Sancho is also performing very well at the CL level, can't say that for a lot of EPL players in the CL (including Chelsea players).

 

It is harder to develop in the PL than it is the Bundesliga, plus Dortmund is an absolute haven for youngsters, they've been developing superstars for years. To be honest players like Jadon Sancho are an anomaly, they shouldn't be the standard for youngsters, otherwise you're going to be very disappointed. 

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5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Very far off. Bayern is probably on par with us, Dortmund maybe on par with Spurs, the rest of the league play at about a low Championship level.

Sorry but we are a bit off a struggling Bayern at the moment. I wouldn’t want to draw them in the CL, Spurs have shipped 12 goals v 5 against them in their last 3 meetings.

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