Jorginho is.... (well now was) a Blue

[Deino]

16 hours ago, Slojo said:

Yeah but overall, we need to smash the smaller teams to win the league. United's record against the top 6 last season was very impressive, yet they were sh*te. 

You need players that can dictate the play, Jorginho did that amazingly well today. Sometimes I wish he would take more risks like that, same with Kovacic. 

Based on the game, I think it's a combination of him playing well with the addition of Kai, Chilwell and Thiago Silva. Plus Azpi at right back

Thiago Silva lessens his burden of organising the play because yesterday he didn't have to tell everyone where to go, so he had more time to think of the next move.

Havertz just knows when to drop and when to carry it forward so yesterday Jorginho was barely out of position. Jorginho could just stay deep because he'll have options in Chilwell, Kai, Azpi and Silva.

Chilwell is always available for him and could drive further up the field and collect long passes into space, so Jorginho was never under pressure of not knowing where to pass. 

Azpi at right back just adds the safety net whenever Jorginho can't run back fast enough to cover space.

Long story short, Jorginho had more space, time and options to play his natural game whereas before almost everything was on him like tempo control, organising play, defending half spaces, long passes, final balls etc² 

Jorginho is good but he's not Pirlo or Xavi-good

Edited October 4, 2020 by Deino

[strider6004]

I see at least two of the Red Tops carrying the Arsenal link to Jorgy, of course does not mean anything will happen.

I noticed yesterday a spell where he kept pointing for players to pass to a certain person and they all passed to someone else, I thought, 'that's strange'.

Then it occurred to me it might have been more confusing for the opposition in deciding where the ball was going to end up ...............

 

[Dean]

Question - is Jorginho our best penalty taker? Don’t have a strong opinion on it and ready to concede that he is. But I do have a preference for the type of penalty that a keeper has no chance of saving even if he goes the right way vs overly clever ones. Hence I get nervous watching Jorginho penalties but maybe it’s because the Alison save  is fresh in my memory.

[MayosNoun!]

Everywhere seems to be reporting that Jorginho is going to leave on loan to Arsenal. I seriously hope this is nonsense. 

[Gol15]

12 hours ago, Dean said:

Question - is Jorginho our best penalty taker? Don’t have a strong opinion on it and ready to concede that he is. But I do have a preference for the type of penalty that a keeper has no chance of saving even if he goes the right way vs overly clever ones. Hence I get nervous watching Jorginho penalties but maybe it’s because the Alison save  is fresh in my memory.

That's his "specialty".

[bisright1]

12 hours ago, Dean said:

Question - is Jorginho our best penalty taker? Don’t have a strong opinion on it and ready to concede that he is. But I do have a preference for the type of penalty that a keeper has no chance of saving even if he goes the right way vs overly clever ones. Hence I get nervous watching Jorginho penalties but maybe it’s because the Alison save  is fresh in my memory.

He's 100% the best penalty taker and that is by far the most effective way of taking a penalty if you can do it. 

Your preference would lead to 1 extra penalty every 10 being saved. 

 

[Droopy]

12 hours ago, Dean said:

Question - is Jorginho our best penalty taker? Don’t have a strong opinion on it and ready to concede that he is. But I do have a preference for the type of penalty that a keeper has no chance of saving even if he goes the right way vs overly clever ones. Hence I get nervous watching Jorginho penalties but maybe it’s because the Alison save  is fresh in my memory.

If they go the right way he adjusts with more power and accuracy. Alison is not the first to go the right way against Jorginho but he is the first one to save it. 

This is the perfect way to score a penalty. If you go hard you will often miss even if the goalie is jumping the other way. On the other hand if they go the right way the high mileage doesn't guarantee anything. Still have to be precise. 

I enjoy Jorginho and Hazard's before him penalties. You can't find players like Lampard, Ballack or Dirk Kyut anymore to score with power at the top corner. 

[JM7]

Both Hazard and Jorghino techniques make me nervous but they always seem to score and have excellent records. I always assumed that the harder you hit it, the more chance you have but it’s not the case really. 

[Remodez]

I don't even know who the next PK taker is after Jorginho. Looking through the squad none of them fill me with confidence.

[bisright1]

4 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I don't even know who the next PK taker is after Jorginho. Looking through the squad none of them fill me with confidence.

Havertz has scored all 13 penalties he's taken in his career. Maybe him. 

[Dean]

Thanks for the responses. As I said I don’t have a strong opinion so will defer to the consensus. He does indeed have a good success rate. 

[Amputechture]

4 hours ago, Remodez said:

I don't even know who the next PK taker is after Jorginho. Looking through the squad none of them fill me with confidence.

Havertz

[Deino]

5 hours ago, Remodez said:

I don't even know who the next PK taker is after Jorginho. Looking through the squad none of them fill me with confidence.

If you don't have the best penalty taker, your best bet is a german

[Gol15]

https://theprideoflondon.com/2020/10/10/chelsea-fans-wrong-jorginho-tough-pill-swallow/ - tough pill to swallow for some out there.

He can pull the strings on and off the pitch (even if it is this overplayed song lol)

[Spiller86]

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

https://theprideoflondon.com/2020/10/10/chelsea-fans-wrong-jorginho-tough-pill-swallow/ - tough pill to swallow for some out there.

Eh. I wouldn't call it a tough pill to swallow. Sarri got binned and noone else wanted to buy him. Thems the brakes. No doubt he'll be moved on for Rice or another defensive midfielder when the opportunity arrives again. 

No one would question his attitude or commitment, so I don't have a problem with him being here another year. 

[Gentian]

The disrespect Jorginho gets in here is astonishing.

[Spiller86]

59 minutes ago, Gentian said:

The disrespect Jorginho gets in here is astonishing.

Wouldn't say it's disrespect. Many of us just think he is too slow to play deep in midfield in the Premier League. Think he would be a fine player in a league where teams are a bit more structured and that is less physical.

[Gol15]

14 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Eh. I wouldn't call it a tough pill to swallow. Sarri got binned and noone else wanted to buy him. Thems the brakes. No doubt he'll be moved on for Rice or another defensive midfielder when the opportunity arrives again. 

No one would question his attitude or commitment, so I don't have a problem with him being here another year. 

It clearly is, people here still think that he isn't even good enough to play in the PL even after he has been one of the most consistent midfielders for the past 2 seasons and going on his 3rd here at the club.

The fans that booed him were wrong and there is no way out of it now. If our deep midfield was such a problem it's funny how we improved everywhere else but there, we got every single target we had and didn't need to further buy someone like Rice.

[Munkunku]

Should have got Mikel back to impart so vital knowledge. A Mikel 2.0 would take us to the next level. 

[PhilH930]

They’ve never sounded less Italian!! Haha

[Droopy]

Btw is it safe now to say that he will not be excused if he doesn't deliver let's say 10 to 15 assists? People used to make that excuse when he had no good options up front. 

Its been a loooong time since he influenced the score with a nice pass. 

[SydneyChelsea]

7 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Should have got Mikel back to impart so vital knowledge. A Mikel 2.0 would take us to the next level. 

This thread seems to suggest Jorginho is already Mikel 2.0. I think that lots of people are in love with the idea of Jorginho and what he is supposed to offer, as opposed to what he actually does.

Statistically, Jorginho is doing a good job, but we need to look beyond statistics (or more accurately, the basic ones published by Opta et al) to see what the issue is. Jorginho's problem is so often quality not quantity:

• he makes a lot of passes like a top-quality playmaker, but they are rarely penetrating: lots of passes around the press, few through it
• he does all the right things but too slowly; one-touch passes take two touches, and when other players switch the play with two touches he frequently takes three or four
• he is great at making long-passes, but compared to some of his more exceptional peers, his technique is poor; his passes lack backspin and are not always easily controllable 
• he can be great on the ball, but somehow also terrible off the ball; Jorginho rarely passes and moves.
• Defensively, he is good at intercepting passes, but poor in the tackle and easily brushed aside

I want to stress that I think that Jorginho is a great player and in isolation all the above are really minor issues. I think his problem is that in his role, for this team, you need an exceptional player. The bar has well and truly risen for deep-lying playmakers and it is no longer the realm of players who are free to 'recycle possession' and ping uncontested passes to the flanks. It is no exaggeration to say that teams can nullify Jorginho by giving him the ball knowing that he will most likely create little with it, like how Barcelona's tiki-taka was undone when teams just let them have the ball uncontested and shored up the vulnerability to the counter-attack from midfield.

Now, you need to be able to pass, but also move, tackle, shield the ball and be a serious goal threat; think Henderson, Kimmich, Veratti, Kroos, Thiago etc who do all of the above to a very high level. Jorginho on paper should be on their level but it's all those little minor things that build up over time and don't let him be the player we want/need him to be.

But there is a fair argument to say that Jorginho's issues are also a product of his teammates and circumstances. 

One could probably make an argument that Jorginho is the most well-rounded on paper, but his main weaknesses (physicality and tackling ability) are easily exploited by any team in the EPL and he is not really paired with the sort of players than can hide that weakness. For all the criticisms above, similar ones could be levelled at Kante and Kovacic in the sense they are very good at certain things but poor at others. Similar to Jorginho, you can give the likes of Kante and Kovacic possession, focus on marking their teammates, while hedging on their inability to create ultimately breaking down attacks or resorting to easily-defended plays.

[Gol15]

5 hours ago, Droopy said:

Btw is it safe now to say that he will not be excused if he doesn't deliver let's say 10 to 15 assists? People used to make that excuse when he had no good options up front. 

Its been a loooong time since he influenced the score with a nice pass. 

10 to 15 assists is basically near Fabregas level, Jorginho never had that many assists he is the guy that keeps possession and moves the team forward.

Our best player made 5 assists in 2 years and he isn't playing full games this season so far, nobody really points our best but the amount of people dissecting Jorginho surpasses every other player here I think, considering that Jorginho is seen as a player that can't and shouldn't even play in the PL it's really odd. If he really is that bad how did we finish top 3 and top 4 with him being involved so much? Clearly he is just a scapegoat due to fans not liking Sarri.

[Droopy]

@Gol15 these assists will come naturally, he doesn't need to pull off Fabregas because the quality of the team is on different level. If he continues to do what you claim he does and I believe he does it too, he will get to this number. But if he doesn't... it will be hard to find any excuse for him. 

[Gol15]

33 minutes ago, Droopy said:

@Gol15 these assists will come naturally, he doesn't need to pull off Fabregas because the quality of the team is on different level. If he continues to do what you claim he does and I believe he does it too, he will get to this number. But if he doesn't... it will be hard to find any excuse for him. 

The thing is, people are having digs at him even if he does his role very well, no matter what there is always some made up excuse how he simply isn't good enough.

Did you miss his long range pass toward Tammy just in some recent game? He makes those kind of passes almost every game when someone is actually moving but even then the chance probably doesn't get turned into a goal or in some cases it results into a goal but he isn't awarded an assist:

Clear chance similar to the one recently towards Tammy, difference is here eventually it was a goal. On the other hand he passed to James that scored from long range so he got an assist there, a much harder job to do for James in comparison.

There are tons of example and even a video about why he didn't have any assists in his first season despite the fact that he made the most passes but that video is basically Morata and Higuain missing chances and Hazard being fouled for penalties...

He's the player with the most passes made into the final third in the whole PL, yet some say that he isn't good enough to even be in this league. He has one of the highest amounts of interceptions made in our squad yet somehow people claim that he should be sold ASAP. I wish that the argument was about his lack of assists, sadly it's not even near any objectivity that you bring up.

I personally think that people need to understand that Jorginho is a Chelsea player, not Sarri's player. Maybe then some objectivity will come with it.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Gol15