Jorginho is.... (well now was) a Blue

[jack_super_class]

His best performance in a Chelsea shirt

[just]

A good game from Jorginho today but as Gol pointed out in the match thread, Palace sat deep and did not press our midfield early and with numbers. This meant he had more time and space to operate in, the complete opposite to the 2nd half against Tottenham mid-week.

[Gol15]

1 minute ago, just said:

A good game from Jorginho today but as Gol pointed out in the match thread, Palace sat deep and did not press our midfield early and with numbers. This meant he had more time and space to operate in, the complete opposite to the 2nd half against Tottenham mid-week.

I'm sorry that I was rude towards you, I'm just fed up at always reading complaints about Jorginho, even when he does his job he's still the one getting talked about as not good enough.

But I will say it one more time, Palace clearly pressed our midfield at the central area of the pitch during the first half, that's the main reason why we needed extra time to win space and those yards going forward, many passes were towards our backline where T.Silva and Zouma kept recycling the possession. Jorginho lost the ball at least once where he was pressed during the first half after he misplaced his pass when we took our throw-in.

In the second half after we scored Palace for the first time pressed our backline, till then they were fine just putting pressure on our midfield and it only helped us to tore them apart, so you see it didn't matter that the backline was pressed in the second half, Jorginho didn't struggle at all during the whole game.

[opinionsarelike]

Palace pressed like mad men against Manchester United at Old Trafford to great success, so they obviously felt that pressing us as hard wouldn't give the same results. I think Havertz helps Jorginho (and the rest of the team) a lot. The German is never afraid to receive the ball and provide another outlet to bypass the press. I think Havertz is pure magic and one of the most innately gifted players I've seen play for us.

Jorginho has the same bravery and is never afraid of putting himself on an island where if he makes a mistake it's disastrous. I get that he is polarizing and probably has as many weaknesses as strengths, but every top club that wants to dominate games at their premises need a player like him. If you deem him not good enough that's fine, but then you need to replace him with another player of his type.

[Deino]

Good performance. He's at his best today

[Brutos]

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I find it interesting how players like T.Silva and Havertz made him comfortable to keep possession, he made a mistake in the first half after he was pressed during our own throw in but overall he benefits from the calmness of T.Silva and Havertz a whole lot when it comes to keeping possession and movement off the ball.

 

This very true if he was the quality around him who are mentally on his level he wil just look and play better. With Kai and Silva they will help him and I suspect with Hakem and Timo going central he will now have the players around him to pull the strings in midfield and dominate games 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Brutos

[just]

5 hours ago, opinionsarelike said:

Palace pressed like mad men against Manchester United at Old Trafford to great success, so they obviously felt that pressing us as hard wouldn't give the same results. I think Havertz helps Jorginho (and the rest of the team) a lot. The German is never afraid to receive the ball and provide another outlet to bypass the press. I think Havertz is pure magic and one of the most innately gifted players I've seen play for us.

Jorginho has the same bravery and is never afraid of putting himself on an island where if he makes a mistake it's disastrous. I get that he is polarizing and probably has as many weaknesses as strengths, but every top club that wants to dominate games at their premises need a player like him. If you deem him not good enough that's fine, but then you need to replace him with another player of his type.

Absolutely with you on Havertz and the lack of a CP pressing game today OAL.

Early days yes but Havertz looks like he has a swagger and thirst for the ball similar to a young Gazza. Like Gazza he has a fantastic touch and wants to be involved in EVERYTHING all over the pitch. When he becomes 100% match fit and up to speed with The EPL!!!

The 3 players that really excite me are Havertz, Mount and Pulisic. 

[Slojo]

6 hours ago, just said:

A good game from Jorginho today but as Gol pointed out in the match thread, Palace sat deep and did not press our midfield early and with numbers. This meant he had more time and space to operate in, the complete opposite to the 2nd half against Tottenham mid-week.

Like over 90% of games we play in a season teams are going to be sat back against us... 

[just]

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Like over 90% of games we play in a season teams are going to be sat back against us... 

But not the top teams.

or Tottenham.

[bisright1]

5 minutes ago, just said:

But not the top teams.

or Tottenham.

Best the bottom ten teams home and away and that's 60 points. 

Even 50 points from the bottom ten puts us in a strong position to get 80. 

That matters. It's not about being the best team in the league, beating liverpool and city. It's about being the most consistent. 

[Slojo]

50 minutes ago, just said:

But not the top teams.

or Tottenham.

Yeah but overall, we need to smash the smaller teams to win the league. United's record against the top 6 last season was very impressive, yet they were sh*te. 

You need players that can dictate the play, Jorginho did that amazingly well today. Sometimes I wish he would take more risks like that, same with Kovacic. 

[ozboy]

The team was great and payed as a good team. Jorginho looked good in that team, so did pretty much everyone. I hope we keep Jorginho and cho. 

[icecoolguy22]

Really don't see any points in sending Jorginho on loan to Arsenal, it's NOT like we are friends or something. I doubt Arsenal could offer anything that remotely tempting, but strange things have happened, so let's hope we keep him. We need experience and stability right now, really don't need to lose another player for no reasons

[I Am Gay 4 Diegod]

Was also really nice as a side note to have all three of our leaders start together Azpi, Thiago Silva and Jorgi was actually mental watching Silva pointing to Jorginho where to be instead of Jorginho doing it to the whole team, as mad as it sounds Jorginho Silva and Azpi are the players we have with the most grit and if you want players to dig deep and show grit them three have to start.. Jorginho IS deficient in pace and strength but he has the most grit and fight in the whole team every performance he has 2/3 tackles and 3/4 interceptions he’s constantly in the refs ears and fighting with the other players you love to see it when he’s made out to be some soft snail on here. He’s awesome and that’s why Sarri was happy to build around him. 
 

 

[JM7]

“Told Jorginho to Arsenal is 'one to keep an eye on'. Would mean Chelsea bringing their new DM, which is still in the pipeline (Rice/Partey).” Simon Phillips

 

So basically if we get Rice or Partey in, we will send Jorghino out on loan. If we do that, particularly to a rival who are looking good for top 4, I will be fuming. Jorginho is a good player, we should not be helping Arsenal out. I don’t mind them signing Willian at 33 years old but not Jorginho who is in his peak. 

[I Am Gay 4 Diegod]

Be absolutely ridiculous to send Jorginho to Arsenal .. who do you rate higher in our CM currently ? Because I know Kante and Kova aren’t actually as effective defensively as Jorgi is from organising and interceptions. Maybe harder to pass but nothing else either of them do makes me think there better suited than Jorginho. If I could sell one I would sell Kante.

[Droopy]

He doesn't have Fabregas' vision about the game but he is pretty darn valuable to the team still. 

[Gol15]

45 minutes ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

Be absolutely ridiculous to send Jorginho to Arsenal .. who do you rate higher in our CM currently ? Because I know Kante and Kova aren’t actually as effective defensively as Jorgi is from organising and interceptions. Maybe harder to pass but nothing else either of them do makes me think there better suited than Jorginho. If I could sell one I would sell Kante.

Or at least just don't sell to Arsenal!

[Munkunku]

52 minutes ago, Droopy said:

He doesn't have Fabregas' vision about the game but he is pretty darn valuable to the team still. 

Some of the passes he saw and made against Palace suggests he’s there or thereabouts. 

Fabregas just had the likes of Costa, Hazard and Pedro on the end of them, Jorginho has had Abraham, old men Higuain/Giroud and Batshauyi to work with!

[Gol15]

46 minutes ago, Droopy said:

He doesn't have Fabregas' vision about the game but he is pretty darn valuable to the team still. 

He really isn't as good as Fabregas that managed to have around 18 assists in a season, his passes on average are much shorter in lenght but what he does do is to move the team well and keeping possession or regaining it. He has been doing that role for 3 seasons now.

He was the player with most passes made in the whole PL and without a single assist recorded at the same time, that was under Sarri.

But there has to be something that he does well, here are his stats right before we signed him:

How did he manage in his first season here in comparison to his last with Napoli can be seen here:

Only de Jong and Thiago were better than him when it came down to moving the team into the attacking phase, this is probably why last season he had the most passes into the final third in the whole PL. So he really is a valuable asset to have.

Now if we compare him to the player that we are linked with as his substitute, Declan Rice:

This is why I have said multiple times last season that Jorginho is the perfect mentor for Billy Gilmour. 

[Droopy]

All the things you guys have said are correct but people judge by the assists for his position because its the shiniest statistics. 

[Mod]

Always a bit concerned when players up they’re game when mentions of other teams interested in them comes about.

Hoping that wasn’t the case yesterday with Jorge and CHO. We saw it with Willian a few times.

[Scott Harris]

16 hours ago, Slojo said:

Like over 90% of games we play in a season teams are going to be sat back against us... 

True, but most teams that sit deep will press us a lot more than Crystal Palace did yesterday, and that is where Jorginho struggles the most. It's not just Jorginho though, it's all of our midfielders. Dealing with the oppositions press has been something we have struggled with as a team for a few years now. That is why I was so shocked to see Crystal Palace stand off us so much, they played right into our hands.

[Gol15]

4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

True, but most teams that sit deep will press us a lot more than Crystal Palace did yesterday, and that is where Jorginho struggles the most. It's not just Jorginho though, it's all of our midfielders. Dealing with the oppositions press has been something we have struggled with as a team for a few years now. That is why I was so shocked to see Crystal Palace stand off us so much, they played right into our hands.

I think we dealt with the press quite well in the last few seasons, we could go toe to toe with Man City and Liverpool most of the time.

Palace did win the ball in the midfield a couple of times but every time they broke us someone (e.g. Dave, Kante, Jorginho) committed a tactical foul in the midfield and we kept our shape defensively.

Palace needed to try and press our backline after we scored and then we simply destroyed them, them pressing us more played right into our hands even more because if Chilwell hadn't got to that ball where we scored the first goal it might have been much more difficult for us to score later on and that frustration alone might have resulted in Palace getting that chance that they were waiting for.

Last season we had many games where we had over 60% possession but still lost games due to counter attacks or simply by making big mistakes in defense, last game we made sure that none of that happen.

[Dean]

has anyone serious said anything about Jorginho going to Arsenal? Seems baseless to me but i could be wrong. Anyway it would seem that with Barkley gone, it’s pretty academic that Jorginho is staying. Even if we were to get another DM in, with Barkley gone we’re not THAT spoilt for options in midfield considering: RLC is not an option for now / nowhere near required fitness, Gilmour is probably out for the whole season factoring in injury plus recovery time, then there’s inevitable injuries and suspensions to come for players that are currently fit. We could easily be in a situation in the belly of the season where 3 midfielders are unavailable for one reason or another. 

My general view now is we should try and keep the back 5 as constant as possible but my all means rotate the midfield according to what sort of team we’re playing. Jorginho clearly has a (potentially big) part to play in this setup particularly against CP-like opposition, as many on here have argued.