When did Kante become a player who can only have one fixed position? The media in this country are odd in their fixation on a player being immovable. Kante won't become a better player in his current position if he doesn't get time. f**k me, Pep played Delph as LB last season and won the league.
People didn't expect Delph to thrive there but he did. However because it's Pep it's a fantastic decision, but because it's trophyless old man Sarri at big bad Chelsea, it doesn't make sense to the media and pundits lol. 

Worst thing is Kante is not a DM, in France and at Leicester I was a box to box player. Drinkerwater was the DM at Leicester.

Its seems to me he is fundamentally stubborn, won't drop Gorgi boy, continues with Alonso and Willian, nearly everyone can see Kante is playing out of place, persists in minimising Hazards input, he isn't good enough to play as a proper No9, get him back out on the left, and its his job as manager to motivate his players, its in the description M.A.N.A.G.E . ffs!

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by Ballack & Blu

1 hour ago, brownindian said:

Outplaying teams is hard when they know your formation and can guess what your next moves can be. For that to happen the talent of this team needs to be much better than the opposition. We are playing without a proper striker against a team that already has a 2 goal lead against us and are willing to sit deep, disrupt us and hit us on the counter. We dont have the personal to turn things around the way Sarri wants us to. 

 

I dont remember Chelsea under Sarri facing Barcelona, So I cannot comment about that. 

 

As far the Champions League winning team? Dude - Drogba, Ashley Cole, Cech, Lamaprd - I dont know how you can look at them and say they were not superior players. Also, sometimes when i think about those days, my only question is how did we not have more champions league trophies. 

I agree that there are problems with the squad where we don't have a striker and that our game plan is easy to predict and I also agree that we lack the players even after Jorginho and Kovacic came to aid.

But I didn't comment about us facing Barcelona under Sarri, but under Conte, that was last season and it was one of the biggest games on the Bridge that finished 1:1 where Barcelona got a gift goal even if tactically Conte managed to shut down all attacks, and it was due to the superior mentality of the Barcelona players and an obvious weaker mentality of our players that led to a mistake of Christensen that has always been shaky and that since that game hasn't been mentally good enough for the first 11.

The Champions league winning team, I must repeat myself, didn't win because of superior players but because of the attitude they had and because of their famous Chelsea mentality where they refused to be defeated. That was present against Napoli in the comeback, playing with 10 men against Barcelona, playing in Munich against the home team without Terry,Ivanovic,Ramires which was basically a crippled squad...

I believe very strongly that you should see the last game against Arsenal again somewhere somehow, because even if tactically Arsenal outplayed our squad it was very obvious that the players had no real moral nor aggressiveness compared to Arsenal at all.

This time next year we’ll all be blowing smoke up Sarri’s arse saying how amazing he is and what a great job he’s done as we sit top of the league. Trust me, I saw it on Twitter so it must be true. 

7 hours ago, dkw said:

I dont know how anyone can have watched that match and thought we played with desire and effort, half of them looked like they would prefer to be on the beach or out shopping.

1

Tbf who wouldn't prefer that. 

7 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Kante has adapted to his box-to-box role pretty well. He's making runs and contributing all over the pitch, players that adapted faster were David Luiz and Pedro but for Kante to adapt to his new position in the new system it's arguably the hardest transition out of those 3 players.
While it's true that his best football was playing in a deeper and more central position, it doesn't mean that he can't play what he is currently playing, on paper and in time Kante will have a great impact on the ball transition,pressing, attacking runs and winning the ball back while he won't have to start every possession since that's the job of Jorginho or whoever is in the middle there. 

Conte came and changed from the standard Mourinho tactic to 3-4-3 and now Sarri changed to 4-3-3, both use the players according to how they see fits best for the team but one thing is sure, Sarri didn't come here to repeat what others have done he is here to bring attacking football and he himself knows that for that project to work he needs time.

What has he done of any significance in this new role? On paper this has been his weakest season so far defensively because he's playing so high up the pitch. 

He's not a creative player, he's not a player who's known for great ball retention or distribution either. As much as I might get grilled for referencing this but I think Rio Ferdinand got it spot on, we are playing two of our best players out of position. Now there's no doubt that Kante has a better chance of adapting to his new role than Hazard does in his temporary false 9, but the chance of the adaption being successful of worth is quite a long way off. 

There's no doubt that it's going to take time to see the results, I will not argue that, but so far I'm not impressed with the progress and I don't think we'll ever see Kante offering a lot in this role, I think there are many other players that can do it better and that's what worries me, because the Kante that we know is the one who does it better than anyone else. I really really really really hope that I'm wrong here but I don't think I will be, I just can't see a rejuvenation of Kante in that role and I can't see how people are currently satisfied with his ability there at the moment. 

But yes like I said, I agree the project will certainly take its time. 

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I agree that there are problems with the squad where we don't have a striker and that our game plan is easy to predict and I also agree that we lack the players even after Jorginho and Kovacic came to aid.

But I didn't comment about us facing Barcelona under Sarri, but under Conte, that was last season and it was one of the biggest games on the Bridge that finished 1:1 where Barcelona got a gift goal even if tactically Conte managed to shut down all attacks, and it was due to the superior mentality of the Barcelona players and an obvious weaker mentality of our players that led to a mistake of Christensen that has always been shaky and that since that game hasn't been mentally good enough for the first 11.

The Champions league winning team, I must repeat myself, didn't win because of superior players but because of the attitude they had and because of their famous Chelsea mentality where they refused to be defeated. That was present against Napoli in the comeback, playing with 10 men against Barcelona, playing in Munich against the home team without Terry,Ivanovic,Ramires which was basically a crippled squad...

I believe very strongly that you should see the last game against Arsenal again somewhere somehow, because even if tactically Arsenal outplayed our squad it was very obvious that the players had no real moral nor aggressiveness compared to Arsenal at all.

We must agree to disagree - i do not see things from the same perspective, so we both will be repeating ourselves and getting frustrated. Also I do not want to argue in this thread as you and I are both in agreement with the fact that neither of us want Sarri fired which is what the thread title is alluding to.

You are right, the Chelsea Champions League winning team did have the passion - I however feel like we also had the talent all around to make it work. We may not have had Terry or Brana but we still had Ash, Cech, Drogs, Frankie and a younger +fitter Luiz. You are right that all these players had passion and i will not disagree with that - but i will add that all these players also had the talent. If you compare our current team, who do we think is as talented as Frank, Cech, Drogba or Cole ? That was an amazing team. This team is nowhere close to that team in terms of talent.

As for the current team, the reason why I feel it is not lack of passion is, this team has for the most part been like this - Since the second spell of Mourinho - I have seen that players like Willian, Oscar, Hazard they are of a different mold than the likes of Terry, Lampard etc. However, We have managed to win with these players. This to me has become the new normal. Sometimes it is hard to changes peoples mentality and that is mainly why i feel that we both will never agree. Anyways up the blues - we are still in 4th and Higuain is coming so there is reason for hope.

19 minutes ago, brownindian said:

We must agree to disagree - i do not see things from the same perspective, so we both will be repeating ourselves and getting frustrated. Also I do not want to argue in this thread as you and I are both in agreement with the fact that neither of us want Sarri fired which is what the thread title is alluding to.

You are right, the Chelsea Champions League winning team did have the passion - I however feel like we also had the talent all around to make it work. We may not have had Terry or Brana but we still had Ash, Cech, Drogs, Frankie and a younger +fitter Luiz. You are right that all these players had passion and i will not disagree with that - but i will add that all these players also had the talent. If you compare our current team, who do we think is as talented as Frank, Cech, Drogba or Cole ? That was an amazing team. This team is nowhere close to that team in terms of talent.

As for the current team, the reason why I feel it is not lack of passion is, this team has for the most part been like this - Since the second spell of Mourinho - I have seen that players like Willian, Oscar, Hazard they are of a different mold than the likes of Terry, Lampard etc. However, We have managed to win with these players. This to me has become the new normal. Sometimes it is hard to changes peoples mentality and that is mainly why i feel that we both will never agree. Anyways up the blues - we are still in 4th and Higuain is coming so there is reason for hope.

It’s true. The current Chelsea team isn’t nearly as talented as that one. Imagine what drog alone could do for our currrent team, let alone frank, Ashley Cole... Also worth pointing out that Chelsea’s financial clout relative to others isn’t what it was, and furthermore the management at the club level is downright poor vs all the teams above us and many of those below, what with all the malinvestment, absentee owner etc. In light of all that, 4th spot is pretty good, and I can’t believe we’re even having the “who’s next” discussion. Reflects again that entitlement someone else mentioned. At least reserve your judgment till the end of the season. A lot can happen in that time, good and bad. But just wait!

5 hours ago, shedpensioner said:

What most are asking is for Sarri to adapt his philosophy to the players currently at his disposal, for him to have a plan b when his tactics aren’t working, not to bring on like for like subs at the same time every week.

Are we to believe that he can only manage players who have played under him previously? Are these the only players intelligent enough to understand Sarriball? 

Sometimes he should look inwardly & ask why against the 2 north London clubs we’ve not performed, is it the players or the system?

Because "adapting" to the current players will lead to a return to counter attacking football, we appointed him to change the direction at the club.

The best case circumstance if we went back to basics would be we have a few more points and be back to square one in the summer, to commit to this type of football from a standing start of counter attacking football a few hits will need to be taken.

48 minutes ago, brownindian said:

We must agree to disagree - i do not see things from the same perspective, so we both will be repeating ourselves and getting frustrated. Also I do not want to argue in this thread as you and I are both in agreement with the fact that neither of us want Sarri fired which is what the thread title is alluding to.

You are right, the Chelsea Champions League winning team did have the passion - I however feel like we also had the talent all around to make it work. We may not have had Terry or Brana but we still had Ash, Cech, Drogs, Frankie and a younger +fitter Luiz. You are right that all these players had passion and i will not disagree with that - but i will add that all these players also had the talent. If you compare our current team, who do we think is as talented as Frank, Cech, Drogba or Cole ? That was an amazing team. This team is nowhere close to that team in terms of talent.

As for the current team, the reason why I feel it is not lack of passion is, this team has for the most part been like this - Since the second spell of Mourinho - I have seen that players like Willian, Oscar, Hazard they are of a different mold than the likes of Terry, Lampard etc. However, We have managed to win with these players. This to me has become the new normal. Sometimes it is hard to changes peoples mentality and that is mainly why i feel that we both will never agree. Anyways up the blues - we are still in 4th and Higuain is coming so there is reason for hope.

Ok then but I just want to put my final input;

It's obvious that the team from the past was way better than the team of today but that team played also against a much higher competition, at the time when the golden Spanish generation was at their peak in Barcelona, at the peak of Bayern's generation that is also aging now, and during the time of Ferguson that had at his disposal Tevez,Rooney,Ronaldo,Berbatov all in their prime more or less.
 

The team of today is worse but is not really in a position to compete with the very best teams either, this team is struggling to get a Champions League spot and that balances things out in the terms for comparison because the tactics of Sarri with the hypothetical team that would have had Lampard,Drogba,Cole,Ramires would have been fighting for the title right now and a big part of it is not only their quality but their fighting spirit and high morals, aggressive mentality and all those things that a quality player like Hazard,Willian lack the most because we all know they are talented but their mentality when things are not easy for them is to just put the head down, put on an angry face and wait for the game to finish - that's the biggest difference for me and the real reason why Drogba is the king and why Hazard won't ever reach that status, the mental edge and toughness is on the side of Drogba and he wins every time the heart of the fans because of it.

18 minutes ago, Argo said:

Because "adapting" to the current players will lead to a return to counter attacking football, we appointed him to change the direction at the club.

The best case circumstance if we went back to basics would be we have a few more points and be back to square one in the summer, to commit to this type of football from a standing start of counter attacking football a few hits will need to be taken.

No it doesn’t, the world is not black or white there is a spectrum of colours in between.

believing the world is black or white will get Sarri the sack.

If he moves to a 2 man midfield he would instantly get the best from his fullbacks, put Hazard in the 10 position you gain the best in league where he should be.

you can still play possession football, but play it with purpose not just for the sake of it.

The Jorginho situation is becoming laughable, what will it be by seasons end 5000 passes no threat? 

Just my humble opinion 

edit: What about my point about plan b & subs? Can anyone answer those?

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by shedpensioner
Further points

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

What has he done of any significance in this new role? On paper this has been his weakest season so far defensively because he's playing so high up the pitch. 

He's not a creative player, he's not a player who's known for great ball retention or distribution either. As much as I might get grilled for referencing this but I think Rio Ferdinand got it spot on, we are playing two of our best players out of position. Now there's no doubt that Kante has a better chance of adapting to his new role than Hazard does in his temporary false 9, but the chance of the adaption being successful of worth is quite a long way off. 

There's no doubt that it's going to take time to see the results, I will not argue that, but so far I'm not impressed with the progress and I don't think we'll ever see Kante offering a lot in this role, I think there are many other players that can do it better and that's what worries me, because the Kante that we know is the one who does it better than anyone else. I really really really really hope that I'm wrong here but I don't think I will be, I just can't see a rejuvenation of Kante in that role and I can't see how people are currently satisfied with his ability there at the moment. 

But yes like I said, I agree the project will certainly take its time. 

Well it's debatable what Kante has done of any significance in the new role. I mean he's not the reason for the last 3-5 losses that I'm sure of, and he scored a game winner against some team and also scored against Man City.

But I understand what you're implying here, he was the best player in the league in his past position and now compared to that he's average. And this logic, that the best player at a position should at least be kept there and other players should experiment in different roles - all of that is a very strong case against Sarri. In time we will see if this way of making the team for Sarri was correct or a total missjudgement of the whole squad.

What if Sarri's only reason for playing the top players in different position is because he sees them as good enough to adapt while the rest wouldn't even have a chance to do so with their lower quality? Either way it's a gamble because Kante worked in another system, not only did he work but he was the best player in the whole league.

So Sarri is taking a gamble there and disregarding a lot of things, maybe his gamble of playing Kante and Hazard in another position is the sacrifice that he needs for the new system, but just as an example he could have bought a different player for the current box-to-box midfielder on the right side position that Kante is playing and he could have just left Kante in the middle to do what Jorginho is doing but with the defensive presence if things go wrong. Because I'm really honest with my opinion and maybe it's wrong but, Kante can do those same passes as Jorginho is doing every game.

So why not "adapt" Kante to the central deeper role that he anyway played and was the best in the league with it, just with more touches with the ball (maybe a lot more)?
Looks easier on paper to implement compared to putting Kante more forward and making the team totally open for counter attacks.

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by Gol15

8 minutes ago, shedpensioner said:

No it doesn’t, the world is not black or white there is a spectrum of colours in between.

believing the world is black or white will get Sarri the sack.

If he moves to a 2 man midfield he would instantly get the best from his fullbacks, put Hazard in the 10 position you gain the best in league where he should be.

you can still play possession football, but play it with purpose not just for the sake of it.

The Jorginho situation is becoming laughable, what will it be by seasons end 5000 passes no threat? 

Just my humble opinion 

edit: What about my point about plan b & subs? Can anyone answer those?

Gary Neville made a point about his Valencia tenure that the moment his time there was doomed was when he turned around and said "you know what, scrap this, for one game it's back to basics", it gave the players an excuse to stop listening to Neville and everything he was trying to do there was destroyed.

If we revert back to that style even for a game we might aswell sack Sarri because there's no going back to "the project" even after abandoning it for a short period of time.

Jorginho isn't the problem, his job isn't to deliver "end threat" anymore than it is Kepa, his job is to help the defense play out and transfer the play from our third to the middle 3rd, the end product is down to the 5 infront him. We are playing "Sarriball" fine in the first two 3rds, the struggles in the final 3rd are lack of movement with the front 5 and lack of attacking width at full back, neither is Jorginho responsible for.

As for plan B, the whole notion is becoming a bit of a cliche, most top managers don't have set plan B's per se, some desperately try to improvise in moments of trouble (Jose) but in reality any managers is in trouble if an opposition manager's find a tactical answer to his preferred set up on the day (even prime Jose with us encountered a few games he was powerless to change, like when Chris Coleman centered his tactics around stopping Makelele's influence in starting attacks) . Manager's who have set plan B's usually do so because they aren't all too confident in their plan A's (Emery). I do however agree he could be more decisive with his substitutions.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Gary Neville made a point about his Valencia tenure that the moment his time there was doomed was when he turned around and said "you know what, scrap this, for one game it's back to basics", it gave the players an excuse to stop listening to Neville and everything he was trying to do there was destroyed.

If we revert back to that style even for a game we might aswell sack Sarri because there's no going back to "the project" even after abandoning it for a short period of time.

Jorginho isn't the problem, his job isn't to deliver "end threat" anymore than it is Kepa, his job is to help the defense play out and transfer the play from our third to the middle 3rd, the end product is down to the 5 infront him. We are playing "Sarriball" fine in the first two 3rds, the struggles in the final 3rd are lack of movement with the front 5 and lack of attacking width at full back, neither is Jorginho responsible for.

As for plan B, the whole notion is becoming a bit of a cliche, most top managers don't have set plan B's per se, some desperately try to improvise in moments of trouble (Jose) but in reality any managers is in trouble if an opposition manager's find a tactical answer to his preferred set up on the day (even prime Jose with us encountered a few games he was powerless to change, like when Chris Coleman centered his tactics around stopping Makelele's influence in starting attacks) . Manager's who have set plan B's usually do so because they aren't all too confident in their plan A's (Emery). I do however agree he could be more decisive with his substitutions.

Whose saying go back to basics, I’m saying adapt, evolve, use what’s available.

sticking completely to his guns ends up with the sack, as sure as eggs are eggs.

We have been plagued by the same problem that has hit Manchester United in the last few years - one club has been run by an English investment banker who has very little footballing brains and the other by a perplexing Russian lady who probably has equally little footballing sense.

Both clubs desperately need sensible directors of football.

The magical chair of changing managers will never stop otherwise.

The problem isn't Sarri or his brand of football.

This thread makes me embarrassed to be a Chelsea fan.

8 hours ago, Lord said:

We have been plagued by the same problem that has hit Manchester United in the last few years - one club has been run by an English investment banker who has very little footballing brains and the other by a perplexing Russian lady who probably has equally little footballing sense.

Both clubs desperately need sensible directors of football.

The magical chair of changing managers will never stop otherwise.

The problem isn't Sarri or his brand of football.

 

As far as I know, she's just the negotiator. 

16 hours ago, Dean said:

It’s true. The current Chelsea team isn’t nearly as talented as that one. Imagine what drog alone could do for our currrent team, let alone frank, Ashley Cole... Also worth pointing out that Chelsea’s financial clout relative to others isn’t what it was, and furthermore the management at the club level is downright poor vs all the teams above us and many of those below, what with all the malinvestment, absentee owner etc. In light of all that, 4th spot is pretty good, and I can’t believe we’re even having the “who’s next” discussion. Reflects again that entitlement someone else mentioned. At least reserve your judgment till the end of the season. A lot can happen in that time, good and bad. But just wait!

Wise words. If he changed things around willy nilly the moaning squad would accuse him of not knowing his best team.

IMO he is not ammune from criticism, but to be calling for his head is just pathetic considering where we stand at present.

Reactionary, spoilt brat, armchair critic bollox

Sad times mate, when we have someone celebrating one of our own getting injured, another one referring to one of our players as a "cancer"  and yet another listing a great percentage of the first team as "garbage"

Not sure how long any of them have been Chels, but none of that is how I was brought up to support the team.

 

What an awful thread.

Probably one of the worst in the time I have been a member of this forum.

Not sure of the intention, but to name a thread in this way because we have lost a game, when we are 4th in the league and still in every competition really does make you look like a spoilt brat.

No one likes loosing to a rival, and Sarri does seem perhaps over wedded to a certain footballing philosophy ( like most managers), however let’s put things in perspective regarding the big six.

Liverpool top- maybe they were expected to be second now- slightly over performed.

City 2nd- slightly underperformed by last years standards

Spurs 3rd- as expected, maybe marginally better considering transfer inactivity

Us 4th- Id say better than expected, albeit not playing great recent months

Arsenal 5th- maybe a position above predicted.

Man Utd 6th- worse than predicted.

What on earth are so called Chelsea fans realistically expecting this season- the treble? 

A large percentage of posters remind me of over indulged kids.

To be fair, the OP mentioned it was a tongue in cheek title, after the match day thread, where I believe there were comments of Sarri should be sacked. 

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by Osgood is Good

10 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

No one likes loosing to a rival, and Sarri does seem perhaps over wedded to a certain footballing philosophy ( like most managers), however let’s put things in perspective regarding the big six.

Liverpool top- maybe they were expected to be second now- slightly over performed.

City 2nd- slightly underperformed by last years standards

Spurs 3rd- as expected, maybe marginally better considering transfer inactivity

Us 4th- Id say better than expected, albeit not playing great recent months

Arsenal 5th- maybe a position above predicted.

Man Utd 6th- worse than predicted.

What on earth are so called Chelsea fans realistically expecting this season- the treble? 

A large percentage of posters remind me of over indulged kids.

I don't think anyone was expecting Chelsea to win the league or even a title challenge, you are diverting away from the issues most posters are discussing. The football hasn't been great, the line up is predictable, the way Chelsea play is predictable, the exact same subs every game, playing the same under performing players. These are points posters have every right to discuss because it's been going on for months now, it doesn't mean all fans want Sarri sacked, but this is my opinion only that Sarri is making very basic management mistakes atm or he is just stubborn.

11 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

No one likes loosing to a rival, and Sarri does seem perhaps over wedded to a certain footballing philosophy ( like most managers), however let’s put things in perspective regarding the big six.

Liverpool top- maybe they were expected to be second now- slightly over performed.

City 2nd- slightly underperformed by last years standards

Spurs 3rd- as expected, maybe marginally better considering transfer inactivity

Us 4th- Id say better than expected, albeit not playing great recent months

Arsenal 5th- maybe a position above predicted.

Man Utd 6th- worse than predicted.

What on earth are so called Chelsea fans realistically expecting this season- the treble? 

A large percentage of posters remind me of over indulged kids.

That's a fair assessment - not sure too many would argue with that.

Some posters have gone way OTT and the title of the thread is poorly chosen - not sure why we can't have just one Sarri thread rather than all the different ones we have?

Don't think too many of us were expecting any success this season - just hopefully top 4 with squad improvement and progression in the football played. Started well but we have slipped back and his stubbornness to continue rather than make changes is my main concern, along with playing our two best players out of position. But certainly not calling for his head at this stage.

  

Kante is played ‘’out of position’’ because Sarri defends in a different way to most managers. He wants to defend from the front via pressing and he sees Kante doing this in the opposition’s half. Having him sit on the half way line waiting for the opponent is going against his style of play. He doesn’t want the opponent to get that far with the ball!