2 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

The world was a different place when Roman took over Chelsea. He changed football, almost overnight. With it came a desire, drive and ruthlessness that ran throughout the club, top to bottom. Anything less than that standard was unacceptable. 

We are beyond soft now. We lack any discipline, and no better examples than Poch watching from the stands for prior infringements, Jackson getting 5 yellows after almost as many games, or Reece today. 

You then look at the staff and entire supporting culture. Newcastle, for whatever we say about their Saudi owners, have a bench of staff and players that all know just how much is at stake. Pep does the same. As does Klopp, and Arteta is now doing it. 

Im concerned at just how easy we make it for teams. We look awful in defeat, turn wins into draws repeatedly, and have to do so much more just to win a game. 

Roman, Jose, Carlo, JT, Frank, Drogs, Essien, Ballack, Maka, Hazard, Fab to name but a few key individuals - we seem so far from the levels these men all brought, home or away, rain or shine. We can coach ability all day, but if players don’t have the right attitude or will to win, then it’s a long road back to being competitive. 

Not good enough. 

True, and despite the Saudi wealth Howe had spent just £250 million on a team bound for relegation when he arrived. He has improved players no end, although I don't think ANY Chelsea fan would have thought the ex manager of his relegated Bournemouth side would be suitable for us.

I have to admit that managers usually take over established teams with players who have been together for a few seasons, but we've got a mish mash of new players etc 

No excuses, but it's the only one I can dream up for what's happening with us !

1 hour ago, The Rising Sun said:

True, and despite the Saudi wealth Howe had spent just £250 million on a team bound for relegation when he arrived. He has improved players no end, although I don't think ANY Chelsea fan would have thought the ex manager of his relegated Bournemouth side would be suitable for us.

I have to admit that managers usually take over established teams with players who have been together for a few seasons, but we've got a mish mash of new players etc 

No excuses, but it's the only one I can dream up for what's happening with us !

We have made our bed, spent far too much already.

Make the tools we have work for us, or change the mechanic.

13 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

But but but..

The this wasn't the feeling on here for the last few weeks. 

What's changed ?

Surely not one sh*t game has reversed all the praise being showered on the team ?

I cant believe fans are fickle, is it a new phenomenon, even I'm having a minor crisis of confidence in our club 

😂

 

Aren't these comments about the club more than the team. It's not Nicolas Jacksons fault he's not an elite player. He has got a dream move and is set for life. Who would turn that down. The performances and inconsistent results are frustrating and on an individual basis we can question certain aspects, but the ridiculous and non sensible approach of applying a model that has worked once in a completely different country, sport and league/game structure and not only expect it to al, come good but actually criticise us all for being 20 years behind the US model, is frankly embarrassing and I along with others am yet to be convinced that we are not on a very rocky road.

13 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

I've said before that there was little that needed fixing when they took over.

A time to take stock and consider what changes to make especially for owners unfamiliar with the game was required.

We got the opposite.

I 

 

 

Bang on.

10 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

The world was a different place when Roman took over Chelsea. He changed football, almost overnight. With it came a desire, drive and ruthlessness that ran throughout the club, top to bottom. Anything less than that standard was unacceptable. 

We are beyond soft now. We lack any discipline, and no better examples than Poch watching from the stands for prior infringements, Jackson getting 5 yellows after almost as many games, or Reece today. 

You then look at the staff and entire supporting culture. Newcastle, for whatever we say about their Saudi owners, have a bench of staff and players that all know just how much is at stake. Pep does the same. As does Klopp, and Arteta is now doing it. 

Im concerned at just how easy we make it for teams. We look awful in defeat, turn wins into draws repeatedly, and have to do so much more just to win a game. 

Roman, Jose, Carlo, JT, Frank, Drogs, Essien, Ballack, Maka, Hazard, Fab to name but a few key individuals - we seem so far from the levels these men all brought, home or away, rain or shine. We can coach ability all day, but if players don’t have the right attitude or will to win, then it’s a long road back to being competitive. 

Not good enough. 

Agreed.

I think for every voice that was saying we might need to drop down to restructure and rebuild and settle for 4th, 5th or 6th for a couple of seasons, there were many of us that can draw upon history that when a top club relinquish their status and position it can, and often does take many years to recover. Whether it's Man Utd, this incarnation or the relegated mob of 74, Liverpool, Leeds, and numerous other smaller examples (Ipswich and Nottingham Forest, for example) there a plenty of examples that when the trophies slip from your grasp it takes a hell of a long time to come back again)

Boehly and his buddies got exactly what they deserved. We weren't really broken despite what some tried to make out to be, they tried to 'fix' something they had no idea of, created more problems than they ever inherited. Put arrogance and ignorance together, prefect combination for a disaster. We all know what will happen if the results aren't up to scratch by the end of the season, then another rebuild for version 3.0

Do people think we should have kept the same players we had just because "we made top four before Boehly took over"? Because so many fans were criticising and berating so many of the previous players as not good enough. You can't say we haven't improved on what we had, because we have. I can't think of any other players that won us the CL that actually were deserving to remain here. Mount, Havertz and Werner haven't improved or shown anything since leaving. Kovacic, maybe he could have remained. Jorginho was sold for peanuts and that was a disappointing fee. Rudiger seemingly wanted to go and him leaving wasn't on Boehly anyway. People are trying to blame someone and it's always targeted at the owner, yet the ownership have done what they could, given the situation we were put in. No owner is perfect. Roman made plenty mistakes in the transfer windows, especially during the last 10+ years in charge. It's a new era and we simply have to accept that we will be without trophies for at least a couple seasons. 

4 minutes ago, enigma said:

You can't say we haven't improved on what we had, because we have.

Results say otherwise.
So does common sense.

 

15 minutes ago, enigma said:

Do people think we should have kept the same players we had just because "we made top four before Boehly took over"? Because so many fans were criticising and berating so many of the previous players as not good enough. You can't say we haven't improved on what we had, because we have. I can't think of any other players that won us the CL that actually were deserving to remain here. Mount, Havertz and Werner haven't improved or shown anything since leaving. Kovacic, maybe he could have remained. Jorginho was sold for peanuts and that was a disappointing fee. Rudiger seemingly wanted to go and him leaving wasn't on Boehly anyway. People are trying to blame someone and it's always targeted at the owner, yet the ownership have done what they could, given the situation we were put in. No owner is perfect. Roman made plenty mistakes in the transfer windows, especially during the last 10+ years in charge. It's a new era and we simply have to accept that we will be without trophies for at least a couple seasons. 

Getting rid of players that aren't good enough isn't a positive if you replace them with worse players.

I didn't like Pulisic, thought he was poor before we signed him and wanted to see the back of him for years as he isn't good enough to play for a title challenging squad.  Ziyech and Havertz weren't good enough either.

But the solution was to upgrade them with actual proven quality (Sterling is a good example) not spend more on less talented less capable young wingers in Mudryk and Madueke.

People can crow we got a great deal selling Havertz for Arsenal but we didn't.  We got ripped off because that £65m went on Mudryk who's less than half the talent.

I don't think people take issue with most the sales the reason we have the worst owners in the league by a considerable margin is because the recruitment has been so bad it's actively crippled the long term future of the club despite spending a billion pounds on players.

The squad is significantly worse now than when Boehly took over,  the results speak for themselves.

Edited November 26, 20232 yr by Whats_The_Mata?

1 minute ago, OriginalS said:

Results say otherwise.
So does common sense.

 

I don't agree that Tuchel being here with the likes of Mount, Havertz, Werner etc would be much different. There were dodgy results under Tuchel before he was fired and now Newcastle, Brighton, Aston Villa, Arsenal and Tottenham are performing far better than they were when Tuchel was here. The league has gotten tougher. 

2 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Getting rid of players that aren't good enough isn't a positive if you replace them with worse players.

I didn't like Pulisic, thought he was poor before we signed him, thought he was one of our worst ever signings and wanted to see the back of him for years as he isn't good enough to play for a title challenging squad.

But the solution was to upgrade him not sell him and spend 5x the amount on less talented less capable wingers in Mudryk and Madueke.

I don't think people take issue with most the sales the reason we have the worst owners in the league by a considerable margin is because the recruitment has been so bad it's actively crippled the long term future of the club despite spending a billion pounds on players.

Pulisic wasn't good. Madueke cost half the price of Pulisic. Cole Palmer and Sterling this season have performed better than Pulisic, Mount and Havertz did last season. Chukwemeuka unfortunately is injured, but he started the season really well too. And we upgraded with Nkunku too. Nobody was complaining when we were after Enzo, Caicedo, Lavia, Nkunku etc. Now all of a sudden the new owners are the devil because they changed things a little too quickly. The same people would be moaning about Mount, Havertz, Kova etc if they were still here because they are not performing. The new ownership sold two deadwood players in Mount and Havertz (rightly so too) and brought in better players. Even those (including myself) who criticised Sterling last season have had to eat some humble pie as he's been one of our better players this season under Poch. I would not want to take back any of our previous players given the choice. 

5 minutes ago, enigma said:

I don't agree that Tuchel being here with the likes of Mount, Havertz, Werner etc would be much different. There were dodgy results under Tuchel before he was fired and now Newcastle, Brighton, Aston Villa, Arsenal and Tottenham are performing far better than they were when Tuchel was here. The league has gotten tougher. 

You don't need to agree but the numbers speak for themselves. 2023 table:

Barely 16th, a point ahead of mighty Bournemouth and Everton with significantly more games played.

9 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

You don't need to agree but the numbers speak for themselves. 2023 table:

Barely 16th, a point ahead of mighty Bournemouth and Everton with significantly more games played.

But the upheaval is nothing to do with the new owners, it's to do with the government and their findings on Roman and his links to Putin. Also, just because that's where we languish now isn't to say that's where we will be at the end of this season. If we aren't nearer to top four by the end of this season then I will be more concerned. But now is the time to back the coach, get our full team back and hopefully go on a consistent run. 

I'm not worried about the future of the team, we'll come good sooner or later, but for this season hopefully the later isn't too far off.

Have to accept the current league standings align with the clubs ability on and off the pitch.

Defo Think there’s enough in the tank to last for the rest of EPL season and land the club away from any peril of relegation. This is the position we all find ourselves in because it’s currently not about qualifying for any European comp or winning a cup it’s about keeping one eye on the drop zone and keeping it at arms length at all times. 

So I foresee a similar outcome to last season- a mid table finish. If on that journey injured players can be reintegrated, the defensive unit can find consistency and reliability, Enzo & Caciedo can start making a difference and the indiscipline be stamped out I’d be happy.

The only fly in the ointment I see is any sanction from EPL or FA deducting a lot of points because currently this team lacks bottle for a relegation dogfight.

 

11 minutes ago, General said:

Have to accept the current league standings align with the clubs ability on and off the pitch.

Defo Think there’s enough in the tank to last for the rest of EPL season and land the club away from any peril of relegation. This is the position we all find ourselves in because it’s currently not about qualifying for any European comp or winning a cup it’s about keeping one eye on the drop zone and keeping it at arms length at all times. 

So I foresee a similar outcome to last season- a mid table finish. If on that journey injured players can be reintegrated, the defensive unit can find consistency and reliability, Enzo & Caciedo can start making a difference and the indiscipline be stamped out I’d be happy.

The only fly in the ointment I see is any sanction from EPL or FA deducting a lot of points because currently this team lacks bottle for a relegation dogfight.

 

I am hoping the EPL/FA pull their finger out and get on with it. We self reported, they have everything they need.

Fine us, deduct us points, relegate us, whatever they are going to do just get on with it stop pi$$ing around.

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I am hoping the EPL/FA pull their finger out and get on with it. We self reported, they have everything they need.

 

We don't yet know if we 'self-reported' all the stuff contained in the recent Cyprus leaks. And we don't know if what's in the Cyprus leaks can be definitively linked to Chelsea or if the payments are mere circumstantial evidence. 

And while 'self-reporting' might earn us some credit with the authorities, it in no way gets the club off the hook for past malpractice/ underhand transactions designed to escape FFP scrutiny (if that proves to be the case).

I know no more than anyone about the extent of the sh!t we are in, but it seems sensible to expect that more bad things are coming our way.

The FA are not known to act quickly in these matters. Everton and City have been under investigation (and in City's case, facing some 100+ charges) for a lot longer than we have over these alleged off-the-books payments.

5 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

We don't yet know if we 'self-reported' all the stuff contained in the recent Cyprus leaks. And we don't know if what's in the Cyprus leaks can be definitively linked to Chelsea or if the payments are mere circumstantial evidence. 

And while 'self-reporting' might earn us some credit with the authorities, it in no way gets the club off the hook for past malpractice/ underhand transactions designed to escape FFP scrutiny (if that proves to be the case).

I know no more than anyone about the extent of the sh!t we are in, but it seems sensible to expect that more bad things are coming our way.

The FA are not known to act quickly in these matters. Everton and City have been under investigation (and in City's case, facing some 100+ charges) for a lot longer than we have over these alleged off-the-books payments.

Yeah is the waiting around that is annoying. Like they are draging it out to earn themselves more money for the process.

Strasbourg fan group, with their team sitting just above the relegation zone, have come out continuing their protests against Blue Co, and have said something along the lines of "money without it being competently used us a waste, and we only have to look at our "big brother" Chelsea and their verticle fall from grace in England to see how poorly this group manage"

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Strasbourg fan group, with their team sitting just above the relegation zone, have come out continuing their protests against Blue Co, and have said something along the lines of "money without it being competently used us a waste, and we only have to look at our "big brother" Chelsea and their verticle fall from grace in England to see how poorly this group manage"

At least Strasbourg have something in common with us, both of us have a fanbase of massive whiners.

45 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

At least Strasbourg have something in common with us, both of us have a fanbase of massive whiners.

Top flight fans in general. In the case of "whining" about BlueCo they are entitled to it imo.

6 hours ago, timetowaste said:

At least Strasbourg have something in common with us, both of us have a fanbase of massive whiners.

No fanbase of any club is going to be quiet when their club is going backwards.

20 hours ago, enigma said:

But the upheaval is nothing to do with the new owners, it's to do with the government and their findings on Roman and his links to Putin.

It has a lot to do with the new owners mate.
Not saying it wouldn't have been challenging for any new owner, it certainly would have been.

But the way our current owners have gone about their business is so backwards i'm still quite shocked its reality. It wasn't even hard to predict, many saw our current predicament coming from a mile away and were right to be thoroughly unhappy about it.

They aren't necessarily wrong. The more Clearlake/BlueCo spend, the backwards we go. 

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

No fanbase of any club is going to be quiet when their club is going backwards.

Well Strasbourg have been below 10th every season bar one since they got promoted to ligue 1 6/7 years ago so I don't know what they expected to happen in a few month of their ownership. They're currently 13th so they've not exactly gone backwards.

Edited November 27, 20232 yr by timetowaste