If the punishment is that harsh that we get a 10 or 20 point deduction for this, then surely City will get the book thrown at them and demoted to the conference league.  Their charges are so much worse than ours and Everton’s.  

It maybe possible to link a small amount of our success down to this financial misdemeanour, but all of City’s decade long success is linked to them ignoring FFP rules and purposely doing so for their own benefit.

The precedent is set, but I honestly think the FA will wuss out and give City a similar small points deduction.  Still hoping we don’t get any points deduction but I don’t really understand what we are guilty of and how it compares to Everton’s.

3 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

If the punishment is that harsh that we get a 10 or 20 point deduction for this, then surely City will get the book thrown at them and demoted to the conference league.  Their charges are so much worse than ours and Everton’s. 

Do you know how ours compare to Evertons, to try and get an idea if we are f**ked or not?

The last 4-5 years we are living proof that the money side of things doesn’t guarantee success. List the price of failures and I bet it’s an unbelievable amount m!!

42 minutes ago, Modueke said:

Do you know how ours compare to Evertons, to try and get an idea if we are f**ked or not?

Like I said I don’t know how ours compares to Everton’s just that City’s have over 100 breaches and if the FA are consistent they are in big trouble.

 I don’t think anyone knows especially with the different owners and sanctions if they will be more lenient or if they even have the evidence to make the claims stick.  All speculation at this point and the media loves to go to the extreme especially when it comes to Chelsea football club.

1 hour ago, Modueke said:

Do you know how ours compare to Evertons, to try and get an idea if we are f**ked or not?

I would imagine it depends on 2 things:

1) Confirming the amounts and dates that these alleged payments were made on, and whether they had any bearing on the club's business. Based on the leaks I would say some do and some don't.

2) Based on the outcome of the first item, determining whether those amounts would have meant we failed to comply with FFP rules in the relevant seasons.

A lot of the amounts quoted in the report are not massive, and they are over several years. So while they may not have been reported, we don't know whether that would have put us in FFP issues if they had been reported.

Hello Super League.

2 hours ago, DarkMata said:

If the punishment is that harsh that we get a 10 or 20 point deduction for this, then surely City will get the book thrown at them and demoted to the conference league.  

Why? Has the UK suddenly started drilling their own supply of oil?

The UK Gov needs trade with Cities state owners, and who do the FA and PL answers to?

Yup the UK government.

Are not the Saudis supplying weapons for a war on Yemen? Funny that did  lt matter, but Roman's supposed links to Putin did.

Why? The UK need the kingdom of Saudi, they don't need Russia.

2 hours ago, Modueke said:

Do you know how ours compare to Evertons, to try and get an idea if we are f**ked or not?

Don't matter. FA need to show they can deal with their own house, to deal with the threat of an independent regulatory body. Which means they need to do more than just take 10 points off Everton, they need to sink their teeth in to one of the elite clubs.

That will be us, City will get no punishment that is of any bother to them, for the reasons I said above.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Don't matter. FA need to show they can deal with their own house, to deal with the threat of an independent regulatory body. Which means they need to do more than just take 10 points off Everton, they need to sink their teeth in to one of the elite clubs.

That will be us, City will get no punishment that is of any bother to them, for the reasons I said above.

Man City broke too many rules in order to not be touched at all. If the FA doesn't do anything to them, punishing us, again, would say more about them than about us.

One doesn’t need to be Sherlock Homes to see that shady deals using offshore outlets to disguise transactions from someone’s scrutiny have occurred at RA’s bequest. In time there will be a finding and the club will get sanctioned - worst case is confirmed by the rules as expulsion to I assume the championship would we take one of the slated bottom 3 so only a bottom 2 to worry about ? Possible outcome is like Everton a points deduction that could be double jeopardy and relegate the club. Financial penalties could accompany these greater impact sanctions. All can be appealed but only to FA & EPL. UEFA FIFA & CAS is right out. 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Man City broke too many rules in order to not be touched at all. If the FA doesn't do anything to them, punishing us, again, would say more about them than about us.

10 points and a 1 billion quid, seems huge, but is nothing to City.

On 17/11/2023 at 20:15, The Rising Sun said:

So maybe the possible wrongdoing is unrelated to FFP and we broke EPL rules that were in place anyway, prior to FFP ?

Could well be actually. They have had us in their sights for a long time. They will find a way.

On 17/11/2023 at 21:06, The Rising Sun said:

There's tons of allegations in those leaked files.

Most not connected to Chelsea though. Roman loaned Swindon a million quid or something. Then theres payments to agents something about CSKA Moscow..

It's all over the place tbh, a lot comes with " but there's no suggestion that this broke any rules"

 

Interesting to know when these leaks occurred as Todd and Co bombed all of the previous regime and replaced with their own people. Maybe this is from disgruntled ex employees from the last regime or soem of the newbies that they have shown the door to already. 

On 18/11/2023 at 00:37, axman2526 said:

Further how does anyone with half a brain think the previous system of handing out fines holds any deterrent to these clubs not to break the rules?

Would anyone at Man City be bothered if they get fined 500mill? Their owner would just get his wallet, Job done. 

Same with us, same with Everton. Anyone at our clubs bothered if the owners loses some of his wealth? No? Thought not.

You have to make it a sporting sanction if you want this to mean anything, to make clubs do better. 

They will pay fines till the cows come home, they don't care. However you start taking away points, relegation etc, now everyone is concerned, and the fans will add pressure on the owners to take proper care of the club.

If we are guilty throw the book at us, likewise City and anyone else. If that means relegation, kicked out of the football league, whatever, the fans will still be here.

But do it fairly, big or small, rich or richest. If you want everyone to obey the rules, you have to show those rules mean something.

If the game was run cleanly throughout and viewed restrospectively over a certain number of years, i reckong there would probably be barely enough teams to make up two divisions. Half of these clubs would have gone to the wall years ago.

On 18/11/2023 at 12:36, El regreso said:

We will undoubtedly get a points deduction and if we do it’s impossible for City to not get one unless the entire FA is bent.

Agreed, but it won't improve our fate. We'll just be in the Champ with them

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Agreed, but it won't improve our fate. We'll just be in the Champ with them

Plymouth…here we come…Plymouth Plymouth here we come…

It’s all conjecture atm. If we did get relegated, chance to visit new grounds…Working with a Sheffield Utd fan, who regardless of current form isn’t overly impressed with the EPL. More of a laugh in lower leagues. I’m inclined to agree

13 hours ago, forbzy said:

I would imagine it depends on 2 things:

1) Confirming the amounts and dates that these alleged payments were made on, and whether they had any bearing on the club's business. Based on the leaks I would say some do and some don't.

2) Based on the outcome of the first item, determining whether those amounts would have meant we failed to comply with FFP rules in the relevant seasons.

A lot of the amounts quoted in the report are not massive, and they are over several years. So while they may not have been reported, we don't know whether that would have put us in FFP issues if they had been reported.

This is an extremely relevant post and something I made fleeting reference to in my earlier post.

Whilst we are in the PL we are also registered with the FA as a full member and it the FA who is the governing body and history tells us that it is they who  are responsible for ensuring the integrity of reported financial information hence why I suggested it would be them that raise charges and not the respective league. Look back at Swindon and Luton for instance 

The FA may decide to allow the PL to deal with the matter under their reporting requirements but as you say that does not by default mean that a breech of FFP has occurred . Indeed most off the book payments are purely  about avoiding tax. 

It was me that put out their the potential 20 point deduction simply because any charge/ charges we get will be based on failure to disclose which again as history tells us does come with significant penalties.

The new owners put their hands up for the year’s 2012-2019 to UEFA . Many of those” new revelations “ cover those years makes you wonder if they knew what they press reports were imminent so these “ indiscretions “ were flagged up even if they aren’t traceable through the clubs records or indeed debatable if they were on behalf of the club.
 

I have seen that  we were way below the £105m allowance certainly up to 2015/16 . RA didn’t restrict input to the FFP/P&S limits . But what I do find interesting is that many of those years  were time barred under UEFa statutes and the fact that the settlement didnt extend into later years suggests to me that either 1) There was nothing to report or 2) They are still dealing with later years and that I somehow doubt

i think it’s pretty safe to assume that based on all years up to 21/22 the original numbers don’t put us over otherwise like Everton we would have already been charged . I find it difficult to see how the PL could charge us for  incorrect reporting of info re the UEFa licences if they , UEFa , have already penalised us for those years.
 

It seems that UEFA haven’t charged us for breaching spending limits. Is that because they re ran the numbers and it didn’t alter the compliance or for some other reason ? Bearing in mind the PL rules aren’t as strict as UEFAs would an extra £10 million or so a year make any difference ?

 

Edited November 20, 20232 yr by terraloon

48 minutes ago, terraloon said:

It was me that put out their the potential 20 point deduction simply because any charge/ charges we get will be based on failure to disclose which again as history tells us does come with significant penalties.

The new owners put their hands up for the year’s 2012-2019 to UEFA . Many of those” new revelations “ cover those years makes you wonder if they knew what they press reports were imminent so these “ indiscretions “ were flagged up even if they aren’t traceable through the clubs records or indeed debatable if they were on behalf of the club.
 

I have seen that  we were way below the £105m allowance certainly up to 2015/16 . RA didn’t restrict input to the FFP/P&S limits . But what I do find interesting is that many of those years  were time barred under UEFa statutes and the fact that the settlement didnt extend into later years suggests to me that either 1) There was nothing to report or 2) They are still dealing with later years and that I somehow doubt

i think it’s pretty safe to assume that based on all years up to 21/22 the original numbers don’t put us over otherwise like Everton we would have already been charged . I find it difficult to see how the PL could charge us for  incorrect reporting of info re the UEFa licences if they , UEFa , have already penalised us for those years.
 

It seems that UEFA haven’t charged us for breaching spending limits. Is that because they re ran the numbers and it didn’t alter the compliance or for some other reason ? Bearing in mind the PL rules aren’t as strict as UEFAs would an extra £10 million or so a year make any difference ?

Anything before 2017 is now time-barred as far as UEFA goes. With the Premier League there is no time cap. We escaped with a fine after we self declared back in the summer but when asked they did not rule out opening a new investigation into us if new information comes to light.
The club itself have confirmed it did not know of the documents in these latest leaks so it would therefore not have been part of the stuff we self-reported. It's the new stuff thats the most worrying here.

And I don't think this is as simple as asking the question "would Chelsea have breached the rules if everything was on the books?". Even if we would have still complied with everything on the books the EPL are unlikely to look favourably at Roman keeping what were actually club deals independent of the club books.

17 hours ago, Modueke said:

Do you know how ours compare to Evertons, to try and get an idea if we are f**ked or not?

Everton's problems and Chelsea's are different in that theirs are entirely FFP-related. They justified the FFP-busting losses on, amongst other things, Covid and funding the new stadium. Chelsea's latest issues relate to off-the-books shenanigans by the owner at the time which, if found to be true, might or might not impact on FFP. There is no way yet of knowing.

22 hours ago, axman2526 said:

At the moment it would mean us bottom on negative 4 points. Would need a considerable upturn in form, especially at home, to go from that to the magic 40 point mark.

How would our players take it as well? They are young, not experienced anything like this. Being in this position is normal for Everton and their fans are going to react by making their home a hell pit, how would ours react?

It will require a ridiculous upturn in form from the bottom clubs for 40 points to be the target. 

Luton are on track for 19 points and they aren't in the bottom 3!

I'm reading a lot people talking about how a points deduction is the only way to deter clubs from breaching the rules, which is fair. I just don't see how this applies to Chelsea. Who exactly are they trying to deter? The man who probably won't ever set foot in the UK again, let alone own a PL club? In a sense Roman got the most sever punishment possible, he was stripped of his ownership of the club, and of several billion pounds in the process. The only people being punished now, besides the players and the fans, are Clearlake who a) bought the club after intense scrutiny from the governing bodies to make sure everything is legitimate b) showed good faith by self reporting irregularities that were not initially detected by that scrutiny. Does not make sense to hold them accountable to any of these wrongdoings, especially when the people responsible were already punished and are not associated with the club anymore.

43 minutes ago, yaz said:

I'm reading a lot people talking about how a points deduction is the only way to deter clubs from breaching the rules, which is fair. I just don't see how this applies to Chelsea. Who exactly are they trying to deter? The man who probably won't ever set foot in the UK again, let alone own a PL club? In a sense Roman got the most sever punishment possible, he was stripped of his ownership of the club, and of several billion pounds in the process. The only people being punished now, besides the players and the fans, are Clearlake who a) bought the club after intense scrutiny from the governing bodies to make sure everything is legitimate b) showed good faith by self reporting irregularities that were not initially detected by that scrutiny. Does not make sense to hold them accountable to any of these wrongdoings, especially when the people responsible were already punished and are not associated with the club anymore.

That's why I think it will either be a fine or it gets dropped completely. 

Going to be incredibly difficult to prove if these payments (if even true) had us bypass FFP penalties. Good luck getting Roman and his beneficiaries to testify as such when they stripped the club from him and kicked him out of the country. 

12 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Interesting to know when these leaks occurred as Todd and Co bombed all of the previous regime and replaced with their own people. Maybe this is from disgruntled ex employees from the last regime or soem of the newbies that they have shown the door to already. 

No mate , it's a leak of millions of documents relating to " shell" companies etc set up for who knows what,  I think our club is just caught up in it unfortunately.

I read that Russian oligarchs seem to have taken over and etc etc etc.  just our f**king luck to be on some documents amongst the 3 million that have been leaked 

2 hours ago, yaz said:

I'm reading a lot people talking about how a points deduction is the only way to deter clubs from breaching the rules, which is fair. I just don't see how this applies to Chelsea. Who exactly are they trying to deter? The man who probably won't ever set foot in the UK again, let alone own a PL club? In a sense Roman got the most sever punishment possible, he was stripped of his ownership of the club, and of several billion pounds in the process. The only people being punished now, besides the players and the fans, are Clearlake who a) bought the club after intense scrutiny from the governing bodies to make sure everything is legitimate b) showed good faith by self reporting irregularities that were not initially detected by that scrutiny. Does not make sense to hold them accountable to any of these wrongdoings, especially when the people responsible were already punished and are not associated with the club anymore.

I heard that the EPL is absolutely opposed to the Government imposed regulator to oversee the game . EPL are acting tough to show they are capable of investigating and  dishing out punishments without any " help" from outside.

Obviously worried that their own corruption might come under the spotlight.

Funny thing is that on the panel advising the government about regulations was some bird from Everton's boardroom 🤣

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

That's why I think it will either be a fine or it gets dropped completely. 

Going to be incredibly difficult to prove if these payments (if even true) had us bypass FFP penalties. Good luck getting Roman and his beneficiaries to testify as such when they stripped the club from him and kicked him out of the country. 

I don't know, but if the payments breach rules then it doesn't matter about FFP anyway.

EUFA have fined us for the irregularities that WE uncovered, I believe EPL can also impose punishment for the same breeches?

On top of that we have the millions of Cyprus leaked  documents a few of which relate to Roman .

I don't know how they can be proved ,  but if they are true I don't suppose it would be difficult to trace money these days.

I thought the idea of all the shell companies, offshore accounts etc was to f**king hide payments.

I'm all for those c**ts who hide their money being exposed but f**k all ever happens to them . But our club , and our ex owner will be high priority, yet again.

f**k the lot of em

Come on you BLUES !