Wrong about Sarri?

[forbzy]

5 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Fair enough mate.

I just happen to believe one such season is enough for huge questions to be raised. I haven't checked this yet but i am fairly certain no wins away to any of the top 10 teams haven't happened in a long, long time. And we have certainly had our share of suspect managers over the years.

I think that if he doesn't improve on that record next season he will be under pressure before we reach December. It will certainly be interesting to see whether the team is better at playing the system he is aiming for following a full pre-season.

[Shweaves]

13 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I think that if he doesn't improve on that record next season he will be under pressure before we reach December. It will certainly be interesting to see whether the team is better at playing the system he is aiming for following a full pre-season.?

Completely agree, he will have had his pre-season and the results will certainly need to improve. I am interested to see how we will adapt to life without Hazard (assuming he goes)...

What is important is that we seem to have gained decent home form, just the one loss to Leicester and no losses to our main rivals. If we can turn SB into a fortress like Mourinho did it will provide the necessary foundation for us to move forward and maybe even challenge for titles (albeit not immediately!!)

[Andy North]

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

I'll ask this question to the pro-Sarri camp:

Is that record versus top 10 worthy of Chelsea? Not a single win away from home against them - three points in nine games.
Four wins at home against the top 10 which gives us a record of 4 wins out of 18 games against them.

It's absymal if you ask me.

 

That record is worthy of a team in 3rd position. And if you had told most Chelsea fans they would get 3rd at the beginning of the season they would have accepted it. We have no right to say we are worthy of anything. We become worthy when we win.

I am not a huge Sarri fan. I am a Chelsea fan and given we are in next seasons Champions League, nearly beat City in the League Cup Final and have a chance to win the EL I am prepared to give Sarri another go. The away record is poor against the top clubs but I have to accept those teams played better than us on the day and we just weren't good enough. We haven't got a decent centre forward and left back is also a problem. Sarri didn't get a full pre-season so he did well to get us going quickly. We faded badly and the 6-0 and Bournemouth results were sickening.

Who would come to Chelsea at the moment. New managers always want to bring in new players except they can't because of the ban. We also are likely to lose our best player. We have to accept that Sarri is here for the beginning of next season. It's all well and good slagging Sarri off but who would replace him? 

[Sexyfootball]

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

I'll ask this question to the pro-Sarri camp:

Is that record versus top 10 worthy of Chelsea? Not a single win away from home against them - three points in nine games.
Four wins at home against the top 10 which gives us a record of 4 wins out of 18 games against them.

It's absymal if you ask me.

 

Taken out of context it might well look abysmal .. but then when you have the complete picture, and the compare to other sides fighting for Top 4, then not quite so bad :

 

[Guest Sindre]

6 minutes ago, Andy North said:

It's all well and good slagging Sarri off but who would replace him? 

There are actually several options out there if you ask me.

I've already mentioned some of them but i'll give you another alternative in Erik Ten Hag from Ajax. Also possession-based if that's the way the club wants to go.

[Argo]

59 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Fair enough mate.

I just happen to believe one such season is enough for huge questions to be raised. I haven't checked this yet but i am fairly certain no wins away to any of the top 10 teams haven't happened in a long, long time. And we have certainly had our share of suspect managers over the years.

I understand that many people are holding out hope that we'll one day look like Napoli under Sarri. But i think one should remember that Serie A is an entirely different league and one that is much more suited to his football. 
His style very much worked in Italy but even for Napoli he was quickly found out in Europe. Out in the group stages last year for example.

Oh without a doubt he needs to start delievering next season, if we get the ban I can forgive a sideways season results wise but improvement in the style of football and how often we play well compared to not is compulsory.

With a full pre season he has nowhere to hide if the football (and if we get the ban held back results) don't improve but I feel for now he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Argo

[Guest Sindre]

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Taken out of context it might well look abysmal .. but then when you have the complete picture, and the compare to other sides fighting for Top 4, then not quite so bad :

I struggle to see how it's taken out of context when every single result is listed?

And i also struggle to see why comparing us to for example United who struggled with third-season Mourinho and a poor norwegian manager means much to us. They are not the ones we are chasing here and they are a complete mess themselves.

[Skinnedy]

37 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

then not quite so bad :?

But still bad... I added Wolves in here because I was curious. This was the point total for the Top 7 head to head

1	Manchester City	29
2	LiverPool	25
3	Wolves	16
4	Arsenal	13
5	ManU	13
6	Spurs	10
7	Chelsea	9

[ForeverCarefree]

2 hours ago, Argo said:

The option was there with Cesc and given how stubborn Conte could have been he could have gone down that route from the start or failing that made Luiz there (before he got culled).

Luiz was injured most of last season.

Conte persisted with Bakayoko up until about February, given he was meant to be Matic’s replacement/upgrade and the lack of other like for like options available to Conte I don’t think he was stubborn with his selection, he needed it to work to play the system he wanted.

Same with Sarri and Jorginho. There have been those saying Kante should play deepest but it isn’t what Sarri wants to play his style of football... that’s why Conte didn’t want to play Fabregas deep.

[bisright1]

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Luiz was injured most of last season.

Conte persisted with Bakayoko up until about February, given he was meant to be Matic’s replacement/upgrade and the lack of other like for like options available to Conte I don’t think he was stubborn with his selection, he needed it to work to play the system he wanted.

Same with Sarri and Jorginho. There have been those saying Kante should play deepest but it isn’t what Sarri wants to play his style of football... that’s why Conte didn’t want to play Fabregas deep.

I think that was just good PR.

Anyway, it's round in circles. Sarrimainers think this could be the start of something. Sarri outers think this is the reality and it won't get any better. 

I hope he doesn't go so we can find out!

[Wearyourblue]

15 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

But still bad... I added Wolves in here because I was curious. This was the point total for the Top 7 head to head

1	Manchester City	29
2	LiverPool	25
3	Wolves	16
4	Arsenal	13
5	ManU	13
6	Spurs	10
7	Chelsea	9

I see 13 points for Chelsea against the top 7....  wins against tottenham, man city, and arsenal, ties against liverpool, man u twice and wolves

I see 8 points for Man U.

13 points there ties us for top 4 in the league in that category, hard to call that bad.

[Skinnedy]

3 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

I see 13 points for Chelsea against the top 7....  wins against tottenham, man city, and arsenal, ties against liverpool, man u twice and wolves

I see 8 points for Man U.

13 points there ties us for top 4 in the league in that category, hard to call that bad.

Somehow I knew I was going to eff that up. I need numbers not colors ?

[ForeverCarefree]

1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

I think that was just good PR.

Oh for sure but we can only base it on what we know, not what we speculate.

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Anyway, it's round in circles. Sarrimainers think this could be the start of something. Sarri outers think this is the reality and it won't get any better. 

I hope he doesn't go so we can find out!

I think there’s a chance Roma offers him a job this summer and if they do it’ll be interesting to see if Chelsea are happy to let him leave and/or if Sarri pushes for that change.

Personally I’m not convinced Sarri can get the most out of the players we have, I think the strengths of a lot of our players are at odds with Sarri’s philosophy and I’m not sure Roman is going to finance the sort of overhaul needed for Sarri.

But after getting top 4 I don’t think a managerial change just because is warranted. We’ve got to give Sarri a chance to continue what he’s started.

[Skinnedy]

11 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

I see 13 points for Chelsea against the top 7....  wins against tottenham, man city, and arsenal, ties against liverpool, man u twice and wolves

I see 8 points for Man U.

13 points there ties us for top 4 in the league in that c?ategory, hard to call that bad.

these look closer?

1	City	29
2	Liverpool	25
3	Wolves	16
4	Chelsea	13
5	Arsenal	13
6	Spurs	10
7	United	8

[Wearyourblue]

2 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

these look closer?

1	City	29
2	Liverpool	25
3	Wolves	16
4	Chelsea	13
5	Arsenal	13
6	Spurs	10
7	United	8

Yep and wolves showed the problem of playing counter attacking football... you can pull off some big ones but when you are the team being countered... sometimes you have no idea what to do.

[Wearyourblue]

4 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

Yep and wolves showed the problem of playing counter attacking football... you can pull off some big ones but when you are the team being countered... sometimes you have no idea what to do.

Anyone want to compare our points with the Wolves against the three relegation teams? ??

[Wearyourblue]

Here's what I am convinced of... with our squad the way it was this year, no manager in the world would have finished better than top 3... a lot would not have made top 4.

If we would have had another Mourinho type this year with this team, we would have had the locker meltdown, and Eden probably would not have made past January.

[General]

If He doesn't win the EL then Avram Grant had a better season after taking over from Mourinho, Avram had no preseason and the club finished 2nd in the prem, admittedly IF Sarri wins on the 28th he will have achieved the top 4 goal  and then some !  Know its not apples to apples comparison, really just highlights the change in the ownership's attitude. 'Someone' at the club used to not tolerate 'failure', now over the last few seasons as the owner has seemed disconnected from the club it's become more accepted. (Failure may seem like a strong word but there were very high standards for RA's 1st decade of ownership, Carlo found that out).  I never watched Napoli before Sarri arrived, so I had no expectations  other than hope he would be successful implementing an attacking/ possession based football style. Overall he's shown that he can compete in the top half of the prem, the top 4 - well just about. I don't see him becoming like Klopp or Pep over time, hes on first impressions just not that good (in this league). He will obviously stay another season and  I hope the fans on here praising him have the last laugh, for the good of the club really.  

 

2007–08 season
Owner	Roman Abramovich
Chairman	Bruce Buck
Manager	José Mourinho (until 20 September)[1] Avram Grant (from 20 September)
Stadium	Stamford Bridge
Premier League	2nd
FA Cup	Sixth round
League Cup	Runners-up
FA Community Shield	Runners-up
UEFA Champions League	Runners-up

[Richard P]

The players took control under Avram Grant, he was not a big influence on the training ground.  Heard some funny incidents, but will keep quiet about them.

[big blue]

41 minutes ago, General said:

If He doesn't win the EL then Avram Grant had a better season after taking over from Mourinho, Avram had no preseason and the club finished 2nd in the prem, admittedly IF Sarri wins on the 28th he will have achieved the top 4 goal  and then some !  Know its not apples to apples comparison, really just highlights the change in the ownership's attitude. 'Someone' at the club used to not tolerate 'failure', now over the last few seasons as the owner has seemed disconnected from the club it's become more accepted. (Failure may seem like a strong word but there were very high standards for RA's 1st decade of ownership, Carlo found that out).  I never watched Napoli before Sarri arrived, so I had no expectations  other than hope he would be successful implementing an attacking/ possession based football style. Overall he's shown that he can compete in the top half of the prem, the top 4 - well just about. I don't see him becoming like Klopp or Pep over time, hes on first impressions just not that good (in this league). He will obviously stay another season and  I hope the fans on here praising him have the last laugh, for the good of the club really.  

 

2007–08 season
Owner	Roman Abramovich
Chairman	Bruce Buck
Manager	José Mourinho (until 20 September)[1] Avram Grant (from 20 September)
Stadium	Stamford Bridge
Premier League	2nd
FA Cup	Sixth round
League Cup	Runners-up
FA Community Shield	Runners-up
UEFA Champions League	Runners-up

Avram Grant had about 7 world class players, and a squad that was the deepest and most expensively assembled in the league. 

Expectations are understandably lower these days.

Edited May 13, 2019 by big blue

[bisright1]

24 minutes ago, big blue said:

Avram Grant had about 7 world class players, and a squad that was the deepest and most expensively assembled in the league. 

Expectations are understandably lower these days.

Anyone on this forum could have had the same season as Avram grant. 

Except wallosh. 

[Sexyfootball]

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

I struggle to see how it's taken out of context when every single result is listed?

And i also struggle to see why comparing us to for example United who struggled with third-season Mourinho and a poor norwegian manager means much to us. They are not the ones we are chasing here and they are a complete mess themselves.

But it didn't list every result ... it listed games against the top 14 ... we play in a league with 20 teams.

And there wasn't any context because you didn't show how the other teams around us did in the same set of fixtures, so that we had anything to compare against ...

[DannyVblue]

Wrong about Sarri? it's still too early to say. 

I've always been 'Sarri in', but that's not because I'm a Sarri fan and 100% happy with the way things are going. It's because I believe that every manager deserves at least 18 months in the role before the fans start to turn. There are obviously going to be exceptions to this - flirting with the relegation zone, serious player unrest etc. But Sarri hasn't faced any of those issues this season, which is why I've found the lack of patience from some fans unbelievable. The booing and the insults thrown at Sarri (a manager who has finished 3rd in the league in his 1st season and reached 2 cup finals) is outrageous and embarrasses the club.

Next season is going to be a big season for Sarri. He'd have then had a year working with his team and a full pre-season behind him. If no improvements are made then criticism is inevitable and more understandable. I'm keeping positive though and believe that we will see big improvements next season and Sarri will be a success. Although losing Hazard will make things a lot more tricky.

When Sarri leaves (whenever that may be) I hope the fans are are bit more patient with the next manager.

[bluedave]

18 hours ago, Skinnedy said:

But still bad... I added Wolves in here because I was curious. This was the point total for the Top 7 head to head

1	Manchester City	29
2	LiverPool	25
3	Wolves	16
4	Arsenal	13
5	ManU	13
6	Spurs	10
7	Chelsea	9

I don't understand the point of this. Do you get bonus points if you beat a top 7 team?

[Deino]

1 minute ago, bluedave said:

I don't understand the point of this. Do you get bonus points if you beat a top 7 team?

Maybe in his world?