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Andy North

Wrong about Sarri?


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With the club having now secured a place in next years Champions League it could be argued that Sarri has been successful. If the club win the EL it could be argued that he has even overachieved.

Given the current circumstances are the "Sarri outers" wrong?

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Posted (edited)

Yup. If people had stuck with their expectations from before the season began, there would be a lot more happy people around now. I think it was that big unbeaten streak we had at the start (and Conte winning the title in his first season) that had some people fooled into thinking we should be title contenders this season. It was never realistically on the cards.

Edited by Kentonio

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I’ve been Sarri out most of this season. I still don’t feel I’m wrong in that, I’ve seen enough from his game management to think he’s not got what it takes to move us forward, he looks tactically inept when it comes to influencing games. We very seldom come from behind to win games (only against Cardiff twice I think). We have played some really poor games of football and been on the end of a couple of really embarrassing results. His signings in my opinion have been poor. I’m not a big fan of his public man management either, the whole CHO - England debut fiasco was poor i felt.

 

That said, I am man enough to admit he’s achieved the goals I assume were set out to him at the beginning of the season and he does have a pretty poor squad so he’s earned the right to stay next season. He has got RLC playing exceptionally well, that could be down to him just maturing as a footballer but the man himself credits Sarri so I’m inclined to believe him. 

If we get to Christmas and we’re still playing eye bleeding football then the board will have a decision to make - the big problem they have is if they do that, our ban will be kicking in that January so we won’t have any wiggle room to change the squad.

 

In an ideal world we’d get a DoF in so that we have continuity irrelevant of the managerial situations. 

Edited by EdinburghBlue

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3 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Yup. If people had stuck with their expectations from before the season began, there would be a lot more happy people around now. I think it was that big unbeaten streak we had at the start (and Conte winning the title in his first season) that had some people fooled into thinking we should be title contenders this season. It was never realistically on the cards.

I was hoping for a champions league spot at best. We now have that and are in the EL final. That is above what I expected this season. I know we have been poor in a number of games but given the players available I think we are doing OK. The Morata problem has been really difficult and we don't have a decent centre forward. We have the poorest back two pairing we have had in probably 15 years. LB is also a problem. Despite all these serious issues we have achieved.

I'm not convinced by Sarri but you have to back him because of what the team has achieved.

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I have been Sarri out for most of the second half of the season, but given that we have reached the top 4 i think he will be given another season as like you say that would have been our objective back in August.

That being said there have been quite a lot of embarrassing moments and performances this season that need to be learnt from in order for us to improve, and if the same things are happening next season then it may be time to move on. I agree with @EdinburghBlue that i don't think his man management is great.

One of the key things I think needs to be addressed is whatever happens at half time. It happened again last night and fortunately we still ended up winning but how many times have we seen us throw away games in the first 15 minutes of the second half. It can't be a coincidence. 

For a while this season we looked as though we would not finish in the top 4 despite starting the season so well, and we have managed to achieve it due to our own recent performances, and the performances of other sides around us. What I will say is since maybe March i have seen one or two signs of improvement and hopefully that can be built on going into next season.

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I've been a Sarrimainer all season. Even in the darkest spells I've thought if he goes we are confirming every top coaches view on us, we won't give you time to implement ideas. With Roman hiding and not splashing the cash anymore, we need a project manager to build something long term. So take our medicine, suffer. It might come good. If it doesn't, then at least we show we are prepared to implement ideas. 

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3 hours ago, Andy North said:

 

Given the current circumstances are the "Sarri outers" wrong?

I've never been so undecided about our coach. IMO he's not and never likely to be in the calibre of Conte or Jose but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance.

Has he proved the doubters wrong? Not really. I think yes, given where we are then he does deserve at least another season but I'm still far from convinced. We are where we are on merit and credit where it's due but he has benefited from circumstances. The Conte critics were happy to point out he got lucky with the FA Cup run due to the fairly easy run, so the same has to be said of Sarri and our Europa Cup run this season. Can't even remember the names of some of the teams we've faced but usually once you get to the latter stages you face a big side but we have had it pretty damn easy. And last night, when we have to play a side who were a bit better quality, we scraped through on penalties. And as for the league, I still can't believe we could finish third above Spurs when they are a much better side currently than we are. We've been the best of a bad bunch and I guess he does deserve some credit for that. 

Don't want to be too critical as I would like him to prove all of us doubters totally wrong and really come good but I still can't see it. It's hard to really warm to the guy, especially as he appears so emotionless and I don't like the fact he doesn't celebrate with the players when we win - just can't see that's good for team spirit. But I'll be backing him next season - to start with anyway.

 

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He did get top 4 and we can still win Europa League. So he does deserve to keep his job, simple as that.

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6 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I've never been so undecided about our coach. IMO he's not and never likely to be in the calibre of Conte or Jose but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance.

Has he proved the doubters wrong? Not really. I think yes, given where we are then he does deserve at least another season but I'm still far from convinced. We are where we are on merit and credit where it's due but he has benefited from circumstances. The Conte critics were happy to point out he got lucky with the FA Cup run due to the fairly easy run, so the same has to be said of Sarri and our Europa Cup run this season. Can't even remember the names of some of the teams we've faced but usually once you get to the latter stages you face a big side but we have had it pretty damn easy. And last night, when we have to play a side who were a bit better quality, we scraped through on penalties. And as for the league, I still can't believe we could finish third above Spurs when they are a much better side currently than we are. We've been the best of a bad bunch and I guess he does deserve some credit for that. 

Don't want to be too critical as I would like him to prove all of us doubters totally wrong and really come good but I still can't see it. It's hard to really warm to the guy, especially as he appears so emotionless and I don't like the fact he doesn't celebrate with the players when we win - just can't see that's good for team spirit. But I'll be backing him next season - to start with anyway.

 

Summed up my views well Nibs. I think he deserves another year as is fitting of making the Champions League and bringing Ruben and CHO through. But he isn't in the same class as Jose, Carlo or Conte. 

I can't help but feel it's a when not if question about him being moved on. He may still be moved on if we lose to Arsenal. I don't see us competing again under his leadership. I didn't see it when we hired him and this year has confirmed that view. 

But fair is fair. Top 4 is the benchmark and he has met that.

 

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Big if about winning the Europa league, if he pulls it of I guess he deserves a lot more credit and we are probably been too harsh on him. We should have never needed penalty to win last night, as the same we still making the same mistakes ,  not making the improvement in the final third, not adapting to what the opponents.

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2 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Big if about winning the Europa league, if he pulls it of I guess he deserves a lot more credit and we are probably been too harsh on him. We should have never needed penalty to win last night, as the same we still making the same mistakes ,  not making the improvement in the final third, not adapting to what the opponents.

We knew that about him when he came though, he has a system that he believes will work so why should he adapt to the opponents? they adapt to him. The final third issue will always be a problem until we get the quality in there, you look at most of the top ten in the prem and they all have a more potent goal scorer. 

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2 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

We knew that about him when he came though, he has a system that he believes will work so why should he adapt to the opponents? they adapt to him. The final third issue will always be a problem until we get the quality in there, you look at most of the top ten in the prem and they all have a more potent goal scorer. 

Even the best managers adapt, and Sarri is not among the elite, so learn to adapt or we are going to keep getting battered by better teams or teams among us. He believes his system will wok, but hasn't proven to work yet. Yes we got problems with goal scorers, and his solution is to get Higuain,  if he gets his way we will have Higuain for another 2 seasons

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I'm not quite sure why Sarri has received so much criticism, I'm also not sure what people actually expected from us this season

He's come in to a team that had a terrible season the season before, he's had no "top" striker all season having to rely on a wantaway Morata, 30 something Giroud and 30 something Higuain. He's had to radically change our tactics and style of play and it is his first season managing outside of Italy.

His decisions have been quite questionable at times and player selections have been perplexing but nothing is perfect. The whole Kante narrative is boring, Kante has never been a true DM sitting in front of the defence, Jorginho is slowly starting to show what he's made of and Sarri has started to drop out of form players in favour of players like Hudson-Odoi before he got injured RLC. 

Speaking of RLC and Hudson-Odoi, we now have two academy graduates that have broken into the first 11, when was the last time that has happened? Look at the improvement RLC has made this season, he's turning into an absolute player and his all round game has improved massively under Sarri

We've secured top 4 and are in the Europa League final. At the start of the season if anyone would have said that we'd finish top 4, be runners up in the League Cup, making the final of the Europa League while having 2 academy graduates break into the first 11 I'm sure most of you would be thrilled

 

 

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The real challenge is going to be next season, when he is going to be expected to 1. compete for the league title 2. win the carabao cup/fa cup 3. i imagine reach the semi final of CL. We are Chelsea - the goal every season is going to be to win the Champions League, Premier League, FA Cup Carabao Cup. What I don't know is if Sarri finishes 3/4 next season in PL, only gets to the QF of Champions League and doesn't win FA or Carabao Cup, does he survive? I just don't know. I don't know if the club will view it as equally successful. We know that if we don't see improvement in results, the manager usually doesn't last.

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2 cup finals and a top 4 finish is enough to keep your job. I felt all along that the two biggest issues he had were team selection and subpatterns. He's fixed/addressed both enough to a point where I'm fully behind him. The real test will be next season and I think we should all expect a level up on the pitch. 

Without seeing the squad for next season I'd expect a trophy and top 4 finish again. United are in transition, Arsenal are bottlers and Spurs could be on the edge of losing their manager and/or players. 

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55 minutes ago, Sparkz said:

I'm not quite sure why Sarri has received so much criticism, I'm also not sure what people actually expected from us this season

He's come in to a team that had a terrible season the season before, he's had no "top" striker all season having to rely on a wantaway Morata, 30 something Giroud and 30 something Higuain. He's had to radically change our tactics and style of play and it is his first season managing outside of Italy.

His decisions have been quite questionable at times and player selections have been perplexing but nothing is perfect. The whole Kante narrative is boring, Kante has never been a true DM sitting in front of the defence, Jorginho is slowly starting to show what he's made of and Sarri has started to drop out of form players in favour of players like Hudson-Odoi before he got injured RLC. 

Speaking of RLC and Hudson-Odoi, we now have two academy graduates that have broken into the first 11, when was the last time that has happened? Look at the improvement RLC has made this season, he's turning into an absolute player and his all round game has improved massively under Sarri

We've secured top 4 and are in the Europa League final. At the start of the season if anyone would have said that we'd finish top 4, be runners up in the League Cup, making the final of the Europa League while having 2 academy graduates break into the first 11 I'm sure most of you would be thrilled

 

 

The football, or the players plays dross, un-entertaining rubbish, he still believes he can get a tune out of Higuain, well not if we don't put the ball in the area, not sure what the answer is, but i'm sure with his steeped knowledge of what is expected Lamps+ Terry+ Drogs also Cech as DOF we can get the team playing and believing, what malaise sinks in after half time?, a different team seem to play, he doesn't inspire or fire up the team, look at his involvement with  cajoling the team before Pens last night.....So I'm Sarri out im affraid

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I go along with the view that it's next season he should be judged by. We've now exceeded expectations this season imo but some of the football has been painful to watch, like most of the 2nd half last night.

An issue I think is team pecking order. Back in the day everyone knew who the untouchables were and the team took their lead from that. Now when things go wrong it seems that no-one has the authority to pull us out of a downspin.

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4 hours ago, Nibs said:

Don't want to be too critical as I would like him to prove all of us doubters totally wrong and really come good but I still can't see it. It's hard to really warm to the guy, especially as he appears so emotionless and I don't like the fact he doesn't celebrate with the players when we win - just can't see that's good for team spirit. But I'll be backing him next season - to start with anyway.

It's not as common in the modern day but it's not exactly a unique situation for manager's to draw the emotional line and keep things strictly professional.

Rafa is another one, he barely celebrated even when he one Scouseville the CL.

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3 minutes ago, Argo said:

It's not as common in the modern day but it's not exactly a unique situation for manager's to draw the emotional line and keep things strictly professional.

Rafa is another one, he barely celebrated even when he one Scouseville the CL.

Rafa was and is loved by Liverpool-fans though.

Sarri is just wierd, why wouldn't he at least take part of the lap of honor after the last league game at home? Surely having some kind of relationship with the fans is very important for the entire mood around the club.

Whatever you think about him - there isn't excactly any wonder why he's not liked by most. He's also has a rather unprofessional habit of not shaking hands with the opposing manager. I mean, that's the least you can learn to do. 

 

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2 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

The football, or the players plays dross, un-entertaining rubbish, he still believes he can get a tune out of Higuain, well not if we don't put the ball in the area, not sure what the answer is, but i'm sure with his steeped knowledge of what is expected Lamps+ Terry+ Drogs also Cech as DOF we can get the team playing and believing, what malaise sinks in after half time?, a different team seem to play, he doesn't inspire or fire up the team, look at his involvement with  cajoling the team before Pens last night.....So I'm Sarri out im affraid

The only tune that gets Higuain going is the ice cream man.

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5 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Rafa was and is loved by Liverpool-fans though.

Sarri is just wierd, why wouldn't he at least take part of the lap of honor after the last league game at home? Surely having some kind of relationship with the fans is very important for the entire mood around the club.

Whatever you think about him - there isn't excactly any wonder why he's not liked by most. He's also has a rather unprofessional habit of not shaking hands with the opposing manager. I mean, that's the least you can learn to do. 

 

You want him to have a relationship with fans who boo his every decision? Why the f**k would he want to do that. 

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

You want him to have a relationship with fans who boo his every decision? Why the f**k would he want to do that. 

To try and save his job?

He's obviously never going to be here long-term unless he gets an at least half-decent relationship with the fans.

And let's not blame the fans entirely for getting on his back. He's made a series of shocking decisions throughout the season and it wasn't before march the fans really started to turn on him.

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8 minutes ago, Sindre said:

To try and save his job?

He's obviously never going to be here long-term unless he gets an at least half-decent relationship with the fans.

And let's not blame the fans entirely for getting on his back. He's made a series of shocking decisions throughout the season and it wasn't before march the fans really started to turn on him.

The fans will be on his side if the team start playing good football and challenging for the league. He doesnt need to do anything else. I'd rather be focus on the job at hand than PR

He didn't try at Napoli and they adored him. 

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I think he deserves another season. As finishing top4 has been a good achievement.

the only problem I have is the heavy defeats that occurred during the season with our ridiculous defending which seems to be suspect.

3-1 spurs

6-0 city

4-0 Bournemouth 

These were possibly the worst displays we have put in for god knows how long.

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