8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Thought he was fantastic yesterday. People need to stop viewing him as a winger and more as an auxiliary midfielder, which is what he is. He's there to link play, drop into midfield as an extra body in defence and help out in attack when he can. Commentators were waxing lyrical about him yesterday. 

I doubt many are viewing him as a winger, mostly because we don't play with wingers... The two half-10 positions are indeed hybrid positions but they are vital in attacking transitions - they are not there to merely 'help out in attack when they can'.

Mount has these kinds of performances regularly and if you listened to any positive analyses about his performances, it generally relates to the tactical side of his game or work rate. He was very good yesterday with his positioning and pressing, as always. But when there's a moment to be had, a pass to be played, a shot to be taken, to grab the game by the scruff of the neck - he's far too profligate. 

He needs to take that part of his game to the next level to maintain his position in this system. You'd imagine if we had signed Raphinha he would have quite a fight on his hands for game time. 

Mount doesn’t score enough, nor get quite enough assists for my tastes but he works his socks off most of the time and does good linkup work. 

44 minutes ago, ozboy said:

Mount doesn’t score enough, nor get quite enough assists for my tastes but he works his socks off most of the time and does good linkup work. 

Last season he got into double figures for both goals and assists. Yes, he doesn't score the goals like Son, but his return last season was decent. But yes he has his patches where he goes on a burden but just seems his stats record last season has gone unnoticed. 

To even knock on the one class player we have is crazy.. his work rate contributions in winning the ball.. in the setup against spurs he was playing much deeper than sterling and havertz to help link up play.

26 minutes ago, Jangz said:

To even knock on the one class player we have is crazy.. his work rate contributions in winning the ball.. in the setup against spurs he was playing much deeper than sterling and havertz to help link up play.

I'm a massive fan of the kid but to call him the ONE class player we have is ridiculous. Kova, Kante, James, Sterling, Silva are all better in their respective positions. All of them would get into 90% of Europe's elite starting XIs. 

46 minutes ago, STATS said:

Last season he got into double figures for both goals and assists. Yes, he doesn't score the goals like Son, but his return last season was decent. But yes he has his patches where he goes on a burden but just seems his stats record last season has gone unnoticed. 

It wasn't a decent return, it was decent relative to our other forwards. And the reason his record goes unnoticed is because he scored 11 goals in the PL. All those goals came against:

Norwich (4), Watford (1), Southampton (2), Leeds (2), Everton (1), West Ham (1)

That is 1 (1!) goal against a team in the top half of the table in 32 appearances. The kid shows up, fights for the badge, and does all the hard work -  we can all appreciate that. But he needs to do more, especially as the club seem intent on splashing the cash on top players again. 

1 hour ago, STATS said:

Last season he got into double figures for both goals and assists. Yes, he doesn't score the goals like Son, but his return last season was decent. But yes he has his patches where he goes on a burden but just seems his stats record last season has gone unnoticed. 

I can agree with the Stats but I still feel he just loses his head in extremis in a way that great players dont.

For instance against Spurs he had two presentable opportunities. He blazed over in the first one, well fair enough I guess most forwards do from time to time but the second one there was a clear enough opportunity to get inside the post and he pulled it wide. Havertz also missed a sitter and probably Mounts chances were harder, the first one definitely was much lower xg, but the second one would have made the difference.

i've also seen it with assists where that last pass just goes a bit off. Its harsh criticism but I compare him with the best. 

2 games gone .. no goals from any of the three most forward players. Numerous chances spurned ... this simply has to change if we have aspirations to challenge for the title this season. Mount, Sterling and Havertz all need to be more clinical.

Mount is one of our most important players no doubts about that. He was doing his job very well in the first half against Spurs, him and Kante were all over the pitch.

But even so he can have periods of maybe 2-4 games where he's not doing much in the final third and now that he stopped taking every single set piece his assists might be lower than last season. 

10 hours ago, venom2011 said:

I doubt many are viewing him as a winger, mostly because we don't play with wingers... The two half-10 positions are indeed hybrid positions but they are vital in attacking transitions - they are not there to merely 'help out in attack when they can'.

Mount has these kinds of performances regularly and if you listened to any positive analyses about his performances, it generally relates to the tactical side of his game or work rate. He was very good yesterday with his positioning and pressing, as always. But when there's a moment to be had, a pass to be played, a shot to be taken, to grab the game by the scruff of the neck - he's far too profligate. 

He needs to take that part of his game to the next level to maintain his position in this system. You'd imagine if we had signed Raphinha he would have quite a fight on his hands for game time. 

 

7 hours ago, ozboy said:

Mount doesn’t score enough, nor get quite enough assists for my tastes but he works his socks off most of the time and does good linkup work. 

Literally outscored and out assisted all his competition last season with ease. 

17 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

Literally outscored and out assisted all his competition last season with ease. 

Unsure what this statement has to do with anything as it's irrelevant to the point and it's also incorrect. Lukaku and Havertz scored more goals across all comps. 

14 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Unsure what this statement has to do with anything as it's irrelevant to the point and it's also incorrect. Lukaku and Havertz scored more goals across all comps. 

out scored and out assisted as an overall goal contribution.

You insinuated he's merely a work rate merchant, his stats alone prove that's not the case without even looking at his game.

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

out scored and out assisted as an overall goal contribution.

You insinuated he's merely a work rate merchant, his stats alone prove that's not the case without even looking at his game.

That's a G+A metric, you should express it more clearly. 

Your inference is incorrect and my argument controls for his goal contributions -  saying he needs to do more (specifically in big games) - and the manner of his praise indicates that. Indeed, his stats prove he's more than a 'work rate merchant' but no one is making that argument... 

 

6 hours ago, ozboy said:

I can agree with the Stats but I still feel he just loses his head in extremis in a way that great players dont.

For instance against Spurs he had two presentable opportunities. He blazed over in the first one, well fair enough I guess most forwards do from time to time but the second one there was a clear enough opportunity to get inside the post and he pulled it wide. Havertz also missed a sitter and probably Mounts chances were harder, the first one definitely was much lower xg, but the second one would have made the difference.

i've also seen it with assists where that last pass just goes a bit off. Its harsh criticism but I compare him with the best. 

It's not worth it mate, Mase can do no wrong 

15 hours ago, venom2011 said:

It wasn't a decent return, it was decent relative to our other forwards. And the reason his record goes unnoticed is because he scored 11 goals in the PL. All those goals came against:

Norwich (4), Watford (1), Southampton (2), Leeds (2), Everton (1), West Ham (1)

That is 1 (1!) goal against a team in the top half of the table in 32 appearances. The kid shows up, fights for the badge, and does all the hard work -  we can all appreciate that. But he needs to do more, especially as the club seem intent on splashing the cash on top players again. 

 

Getting into double digits for goals and assists is not a decent return for a 23 year old? Of course it is. Like I say, not brilliant but it is good.

15 hours ago, venom2011 said:

It wasn't a decent return, it was decent relative to our other forwards. And the reason his record goes unnoticed is because he scored 11 goals in the PL. All those goals came against:

Norwich (4), Watford (1), Southampton (2), Leeds (2), Everton (1), West Ham (1)

That is 1 (1!) goal against a team in the top half of the table in 32 appearances. The kid shows up, fights for the badge, and does all the hard work -  we can all appreciate that. But he needs to do more, especially as the club seem intent on splashing the cash on top players again. 

 

Not quite correct ... 🙂 

Mount's 2021/22 PL Stats

Mount vs Bottom Half - 14 starts plus 3 sub appearances, 10 goals, 5 assists

Mount vs Top Half  - 13 starts plus 2 sub appearances. 1 goal, 5 assists

Overall - 27 starts plus 5 sub appearances, 11 goals, 10 assists.

He improved dramatically under Tuchel last season in terms of minutes per "goal contribution" (goals+assists) from a goal or assist every 238 minutes the previous season to a goal or assist every 130 minutes. 

This season, I am hoping he can continue his year-on-year progress and also add more productivity against the better teams, whilst maintaining his excellent numbers against the lesser sides.

#Chelsea want Mason Mount and Reece James to sign new six-year deals with an option of a seventh year. [via@Matt_Law_DT]

#Chelsea owner Todd Boehly is implementing a US-style contract policy for the club's under-25 players, locking them into deals for as long as seven years. [via @SamiMokbel81_DM@AdrianJKajumba]

Edited August 16, 20223 yr by azpi28

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Not quite correct ... 🙂 

I mean.... seeing as he's scored 1 goal against a top half team and made 32 appearances I'd say it's very definition of 'correct',  no? 

Edited August 16, 20223 yr by venom2011

I compared Mount to Lampard, after all one wants to be measured against the best. there are probably better records that show assists season by season by I just used wikipedia which only shows goals.

My observation is that it took Lampard a few seasons to start regularly getting into double digit goals in the premier league. 
My conclusion is that we should give good old mason another couple of seasons to see whether he gets that "football brain" working in front of goal as well as it does over the rest of the approach. More should be expected of Mount because he is not picked as a midfielder even if he looks a bit like one.

 

7 hours ago, venom2011 said:

I mean.... seeing as he's scored 1 goal against a top half team and made 32 appearances I'd say it's very definition of 'correct',  no? 

OK sure, but, the way you've written it,  it looks like you are saying 1 goal in 32 games against sides in top half ... obviously we cannot play that many games against top half, but to someone who is skim reading, or doesn't have strong attention to detail, they could easily mis-understand what you've posted and form an erroneous opinion of Mount's effectiveness.

We also need to look at the context of the team's overall performance vs Top and vs Bottom, which is important.

Team record vs Top half & Bottom half : 

 

	P	W	D	L	F	A	GD	PTS	PPG
vs Top Half	18	5	9	4	25	19	6	24	1.33
vs Bottom half	20	16	2	2	51	14	37	50	2.50

In the matches vs bottom half, we scored 44 goals in the games Mount played in, so he's basically been directly involved in over a third of our goals (15/44). Pretty decent I'd say. Huge contribution towards our overall points tally and top 4 finish.

The whole team only managed 25 goals in 18 games against the top half. Mount contributed to 6 of those ... and he only started 13 of the 18 games. The 5 games he didn't start we lost 2 and drew 3, scoring 4 goals in the process. 

Edited August 17, 20223 yr by Sexyfootball

7 hours ago, ozboy said:

I compared Mount to Lampard, after all one wants to be measured against the best. there are probably better records that show assists season by season by I just used wikipedia which only shows goals.

My observation is that it took Lampard a few seasons to start regularly getting into double digit goals in the premier league. 
My conclusion is that we should give good old mason another couple of seasons to see whether he gets that "football brain" working in front of goal as well as it does over the rest of the approach. More should be expected of Mount because he is not picked as a midfielder even if he looks a bit like one.

 

An interesting comparison.

Mount is the same age now as Frank was when he first signed for Chelsea !

At that point, Lampard had 40 goals in 198 appearances, vs Mount's current 55 in 248.

 

Mount's first three seasons with us look very similar to Frank's first three at Chelsea ... !

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

OK sure, but, the way you've written it,  it looks like you are saying 1 goal in 32 games against sides in top half ... obviously we cannot play that many games against top half, but to someone who is skim reading, or doesn't have strong attention to detail, they could easily mis-understand what you've posted and form an erroneous opinion of Mount's effectiveness.

I'd say if anyone thought it was possible that Mount had 32 appearances vs top half opposition in the Premier League, against which a maximum of 20 games can be played...... they need to give their head a wobble. 

I wonder if other teams fans with such a young academy player with such a fantastic output and is so integral to their team berate him as much as Chelsea fans do Mount.

The last game you could really see what Tuchel was doing, out of possession we are the closet thing to city with our orchestrated closing down, pivotal to that is Mason Mount, all you need to do is watch him and you see Tuchels game plan, it's as if Mason had the blueprint for a week before everyone else. I think Tuchel puts his name down first every week.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I wonder if other teams fans with such a young academy player with such a fantastic output and is so integral to their team berate him as much as Chelsea fans do Mount.

Its so weird isnt it, it amazes me how people seem desperate to disparage any of his achievements or attributes. Weve had years of hoping to see someone like him break through form the academy, he's been player of the year, man of the match in big finals/matches, scores goals (claiming they are some how less value because who they are against is ridiculous), loads of assists, gives everything in every game, is completely reliable, no stupid off the pitch stuff etc...

Obviously with some f**kwits its because he`s English, or he kept their little darling out the team but hopefully thats mainly the Social media lunatics thankfully, doesnt seem to be the reason on this forum thankfully. But I dont know what the reason is, the desperation to talk him down is so odd. At any other team their fans would be raving about him, building everything up about him.