6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

That's the amusing part about it, but winning 7 titles in a row is literally unheard of in the Premier League lets be honest, when has that ever happened? United won it three in a row over a decade ago and that's it. 

The whole debate about which league is strongest is so overdone. Aubameyang came to this league and has been top scorer or thereabouts since.

Salah scored something like 15 goals in his last season at Roma, but came to the PL and scored 30 goals in a season.

You can mix and match players who have done better or worse in each league they've left and gone to. Bayern and Dortmund are simply very good, well oiled sides.

The only way for a definitive answer on which league is better or worse is to have every side in the top leagues in Europe face off against each other, but even then I doubt we'd get an answer. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

RLC? He hasn't even played a game yet this season. But I think I know what you're trying to say. I agree, a lot of our experienced players are letting us down, Rudiger particularly, he was f**king awful tonight. 

I feel like Rudiger has really gone off the boil in the last month or 2. I wonder if he was more affected by the incident at Tottenham than he let on.

Just now, Slojo said:

He quoted me... Honestly I don't care about this argument anymore, you're just trying to argue about something that isn't there, I've explained just about everything and you can't refute what I've said without getting into double standards and revisionism. Focus on what's just happened, this is the last time I'm replying to you. 

It's not an argument because there's nothing to argue about. 

Throwing your toys out the pram about it is a bit silly though. 

1 minute ago, enigma said:

The whole debate about which league is strongest is so overdone. Aubameyang came to this league and has been top scorer or thereabouts since.

Salah scored something like 15 goals in his last season at Roma, but came to the PL and scored 30 goals in a season.

You can mix and match players who have done better or worse in each league they've left and gone to. Bayern and Dortmund are simply very good, well oiled sides.

The only way for a definitive answer on which league is better or worse is to have every side in the top leagues in Europe face off against each other, but even then I doubt we'd get an answer. 

I'm not arguing about the quality of the league. I've already said that the Premier League is vastly overrated in quality. 

Kind of expected a loss but didn't think we would be embarrassed at home this way. This game again shows how average our team is, at least compared to where we were years ago. Yes, we have youth players that still need time to develop but we shouldn't completely rely on our youth team. Signing the best players available should still be our number one priority and our youth players should be a supplement to that. Our defence, for example, is one area of the pitch I am very concerned about, I just don't see anyone amongst the senior players that is quality. Azpi is almost done and Rudi isn't looking like the player people were expecting to galvanise our defence when he came back from injury. Don't need to talk about Andreas and Zouma since they would be 4th choice defenders on many other teams.

4 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I know, thank god for Loftus Cheek. We’d be 10th by now if he weren’t playing.

Take away Loftus-Cheek. I put him in because he will, without doubt, be important for us in the latter stages of the season. But Mount's, Pulisic's, Abraham's goals have been crucial for us this season. None of the experienced guys have stepped up nearly enough. 

3 minutes ago, Maldeika said:

But we do not raid the Bundesliga that much. And it is just understandable that a lot of the best players of the Bundesliga want to go to the best club in Germany.

I understand that you did not like the result. Understandable. But you have a young team with a good future! 

 

I'm not being bitter and I don't mean to come across that way, I'm just saying it how it is, you guys have it a lot easier than we do, that's my point. I already accepted we were going to lose this game, I'm a bit pissed off with the result don't get me wrong but it's not a hard pill to swallow, Bayern are likely the best team in the world right now and we are very far behind. 

When we play our youth players, we're at a big risk of not getting Champions League, you guys don't really have that risk, you'll walk the league anyway. That's it really, nothing more than that.

23 minutes ago, enigma said:

He'll never get better if we just drop him. Spurs stuck by Kane and he rewarded them. Same with Rashford at Utd. 

Of course Tottenham stuck by Kane, he scored 31 goals when they bought him in as a regular and was major reason why they started competing for Champions League football. Abraham isn't anywhere near Kane's level at the same age. Rashford hasn't exactly rewarded United yet either, they haven't progressed with him as a regular starter. I also think he is a player that performs well in patches. 

Abraham has been better than I expected him to be this season, but I haven't seen enough good from him to trust that he will eventually grow to be an elite player.

You actually had some good attacks. I do not mean the two Kimmich and Neuer invited you to - but the positioning in the box was not good. 

Of the Bayern players I liked Thiago, Lewy, Gnabry, Müller and that gem Davies most. 

Our starting eleven was pretty cheap compared to a lot of the international competitors. And all but Pavard, Davies and Gnabry are in Munich since Pep. 

 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Maldeika

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I'm not arguing about the quality of the league. I've already said that the Premier League is vastly overrated in quality. 

I think every league is overrated by their fans. No league is better or worse than the other, in my opinion. A top team is a top team. 

 

4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Of course Tottenham stuck by Kane, he scored 31 goals when they bought him in as a regular and was major reason why they started competing for Champions League football. Abraham isn't anywhere near Kane's level at the same age. Rashford hasn't exactly rewarded United yet either, they haven't progressed with him as a regular starter. I also think he is a player that performs well in patches. 

Abraham has been better than I expected him to be this season, but I haven't seen enough good from him to trust that he will eventually grow to be an elite player.

That's the likelihood but I do think @enigma raised a good point, especially with Rashford who I felt was VERY overrated who is really coming into his own this season. I do like Tammy, he's been off the ball for quite a while though and the injuries clearly haven't helped. However, his conversion rate has been pretty poor all season, but he was scoring goals so nobody was really going to complain. Epsecially when we've had guys like Higuain and Morata here recently that couldn't score to save their lives. Tammy was just a breath of fresh air in comparison, it's just when he's hardly scoring now, and he's still missing chances, his sloppy conversion rate is starting to show. 

He really needs to take his chances more. 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Slojo

Just now, Maldeika said:

You actually had some good attacks. I do not mean the two Kimmich and Neuer invited you to - but the positioning in the box was not good. 

Of the Bayern players I liked Thiago, Lewy, Gnabry, Müller and that gem Davies most. 

 

With 30% possession it was amazing that our team could create a few decent chances. Bayern came totally prepared and this was just a routine win, the fact that you can put Kimmich anywhere on the pitch is amazing, Chelsea at this point have a bunch of players with no ability to adapt to anything.

Thiago got away with it, he should have had a yellow card, the irony is that when Jorginho pointed out to the ref that he doesn't react towards Bayern players the same way he got a yellow card and is now banned for the next game.

5 minutes ago, Maldeika said:

You actually had some good attacks. I do not mean the two Kimmich and Neuer invited you to - but the positioning in the box was not good. 

Of the Bayern players I liked Thiago, Lewy, Gnabry, Müller and that gem Davies most. 

 

We need at least 5 signings to get even close to Bayern’s level. Think it could be a few years before we get there, if we do.

I’d like to see Bayern play Liverpool, that’d be a good match.

I thought Davies was one of your best players tonight, his pace is unreal.

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Of course Tottenham stuck by Kane, he scored 31 goals when they bought him in as a regular and was major reason why they started competing for Champions League football. Abraham isn't anywhere near Kane's level at the same age. Rashford hasn't exactly rewarded United yet either, they haven't progressed with him as a regular starter. I also think he is a player that performs well in patches. 

Abraham has been better than I expected him to be this season, but I haven't seen enough good from him to trust that he will eventually grow to be an elite player.

Harry Kane had his breakout season for Spurs when he was 21 and he still looked rough around the edges then. Tammy is enjoying a good season with us at 1 year older. Not a huge difference. I am not saying Tammy is going to be the next Harry Kane but equally too soon to write him off. I totally agree that he needs competition and he is not on the best of runs at the moment, even allowing for his injury. But I am still hopeful that he will hit another run of goals before the season is out and manage to get to around 20. 

7 minutes ago, chelseablueboy said:

Bit of a reality check tonight for me..
Didn't realise how far behind the really top sides we have fallen, it's a fairly long way back it looked like this evening.

Not a big suprise for me. We are long overdue a transfer window where we spend money on quality players and get rid players that offer us nothing.

Just now, dansubrosa said:

We need at least 5 signings to get even close to Bayern’s level. Think it could be a few years before we get there, if we do.

I’d like to see Bayern play Liverpool, that’d be a good match.

I thought Davies was one of your best players tonight, his pace is unreal.

Not sure Liverpool will even make it to the next round.

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Of course Tottenham stuck by Kane, he scored 31 goals when they bought him in as a regular and was major reason why they started competing for Champions League football. Abraham isn't anywhere near Kane's level at the same age. Rashford hasn't exactly rewarded United yet either, they haven't progressed with him as a regular starter. I also think he is a player that performs well in patches. 

Abraham has been better than I expected him to be this season, but I haven't seen enough good from him to trust that he will eventually grow to be an elite player.

Abraham is the best we have at present but there things that are natural that can't be taught. Movement and anticipation in the box is vital for a top striker, Tammy lacks these. He can do a job for us as a very decent number two but if we want to dine out at the top again we need a top striker.

 

 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by dansubrosa

36 minutes ago, beemac said:

I can't understand why so many fans (and TV pundits) keep making reference to this "young" Chelsea team. Even Hoddle mentioned it during commentary that they would be a force in 2-3 years. In actual fact in the starting XI only Christensen, Mount and James were under 25 and none are teenagers. This was a Chelsea side sprinkled with experience versus a Bayern side with a very similar makeup of youth and experience. Face it Frank may not have it after all. 

Saying young side is the wrong word to use, but I don't agree when you say Lampard isn't good enough. We had Sarri last season and Conte the season before, if they had this current Chelsea team, they wouldn't achieve anything more than what Lampard has achieved this season. The fact that we are competing for top 4 at all this season has been a massive shock. I had us 6th at best, and a lot of fans were saying we would struggle to stay in the top 10.

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Scott Harris

Best team we have faced all season. 

Passed the ball around brilliantly, and they have so much quality going forward, always choose the right option, clinical in front of goal. 

This is the level we are at the moment, not a single player from our team gets in that bayern team. 

We had chances, but they scored 3 and missed more chsnces than we created. 

Im not going to highlight individual players, it was tough night, and wake up call to everyone that if we want to compete like we did 10 years ago, its going to take time to develoo promising players and make some key additions all over the pitch.

 

9 minutes ago, big blue said:

Best team we have faced all season. 

Passed the ball around brilliantly, and they have so much quality going forward, always choose the right option, clinical in front of goal. 

This is the level we are at the moment, not a single player from our team gets in that bayern team. 

We had chances, but they scored 3 and missed more chsnces than we created. 

Im not going to highlight individual players, it was tough night, and wake up call to everyone that if we want to compete like we did 10 years ago, its going to take time to develoo promising players and make some key additions all over the pitch.

 

That's how good they are, we are basically like how Watford are to us, to them, not one of our players gets in their team, I'll be very surprised if they don't go on to win it this season. 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Slojo

10 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Harry Kane had his breakout season for Spurs when he was 21 and he still looked rough around the edges then. Tammy is enjoying a good season with us at 1 year older. Not a huge difference. I am not saying Tammy is going to be the next Harry Kane but equally too soon to write him off. I totally agree that he needs competition and he is not on the best of runs at the moment, even allowing for his injury. But I am still hopeful that he will hit another run of goals before the season is out and manage to get to around 20. 

I'm not writing him off, I just don't think he has shown enough to put our full faith in him right now. If we can get a top striker, I don't think we should put that off because Abraham may one day grow into a top striker himself. I think that would be silly risk to take.

Just now, Slojo said:

That's how good they are, we are basically Watford to us that we are to them, not one of our players gets in their team, I'll be very surprised if they don't go on to win it this season. 

They were really impressive, Ive not seen much of them this season, bit from what ive seen from Barcelona, Madrid, city and even liverpool, i think bayern have a great chance this season.

55 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It was something that was a problem last season too. Pretty much every position needs an upgrade. People underestimate just how bad that transfer ban was for us, it came at the worst possible time. We were desperate for new players, but we had to bring back players we loaned out that weren't good enough in the past and young players that were playing in the Championship. Selling Hazard to Real Madrid and losing Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi to injury for a big chunk of the season just added to the damage. The injuries we have had this season has really hurt us too.

Mount, Tomori, James, Abraham, they were all playing in the Championship last season.

Zouma, Batshuayi, they were playing for mid table Premier League teams and didn't really do anything special in their time at those clubs.

Pedro, Willian, Giroud, past it. Should have been moved on by now, but the transfer ban forced us to keep them.

Emerson, Barkley, Christensen, Caballero, not good enough for top sides.

Jorginho and Kepa have big question marks on their name. Can you build a successful side around these two players? I'm not so sure.

Azpilicueta, Alonso, Hudson-Odoi. They should be squad players at this moment in their careers, not regular starters.

Kovacic, Rudiger (?), Kante, Loftus-Cheek, Pulisic, these players are our only players at this moment that are good enough to be challenging top sides. Rudiger's drop in form is worrying though, maybe it's the injuries he had. Kante is another worry, he's been getting injured a lot and hasn't been playing well all that much this season. Loftus-Cheek has been out for nearly a year and Pulisic is new to league and picked up an bad injury as well.

 

Very well said.

Sad, but the truth really is there's about a handful of players on this squad that should belong in a starting 11 of a top side.