Official Thomas Tuchel *Now Sacked*

[Brigadeiro]

I miss this man's smile! Can we just end the Euro and start the season already? 

[Argo]

7 minutes ago, Brigadeiro said:

I miss this man's smile! Can we just end the Euro and start the season already? 

For the first time ever I'm actually glad for the breather, the season and a bit since the restart was seriously intense.

Helps that we can dine of a UCL win.

[Brigadeiro]

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

For the first time ever I'm actually glad for the breather, the season and a bit since the restart was seriously intense.

Helps that we can dine of a UCL win.

Fair enough, a good period of rest will do wonders to everyone, that's also why I'm not too fussed about transfer rumours, just waiting patiently until everything sorts itself.

But I really do miss his pressers and overall enthusiasm, always a joy listening to him. National team coaches always have that whole nation pressure so they just don't seem to enjoy their work as much. 

[Jangz]

On 30/06/2021 at 01:24, Brigadeiro said:

Fair enough, a good period of rest will do wonders to everyone, that's also why I'm not too fussed about transfer rumours, just waiting patiently until everything sorts itself.

But I really do miss his pressers and overall enthusiasm, always a joy listening to him. National team coaches always have that whole nation pressure so they just don't seem to enjoy their work as much. 

and most of them are bang average coaches too.

[dansubrosa]

On 29/06/2021 at 20:54, Brigadeiro said:

Fair enough, a good period of rest will do wonders to everyone, that's also why I'm not too fussed about transfer rumours, just waiting patiently until everything sorts itself.

But I really do miss his pressers and overall enthusiasm, always a joy listening to him. National team coaches always have that whole nation pressure so they just don't seem to enjoy their work as much. 

I feel the same about transfers, just get Declan Rice in and start the season. Haaland would be nice indeed but I think we’ll manage okay without him for a season. (Or any striker).

[ducavis]

13 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I feel the same about transfers, just get Declan Rice in and start the season. Haaland would be nice indeed but I think we’ll manage okay without him for a season. (Or any striker).

Depends on what the expectations are for this season. City will be up there, Liverpool are strengthening and won’t be as ropey as they were, Utd will be better with their additions, and Leicester are making smart moves in the market. 

I reckon we might end up in a dogfight for top 4 again, granted we might be stronger defensively but the lack of creativity in the side worries me more than a goal scorer.

 

[Guest Sindre]

No top striker and we can kiss any title-hopes goodbye before a ball has been kicked.

So that would be extremely underwhelming coming off the momentum of winning the Champions League. We should aim to kick on while we are European Champions and have a fantastic manager.

[Bob stark]

On 25/06/2021 at 11:11, axman2526 said:

I wonder if our lack of activity in the market so far might be down to TT wanting to run the rule over our loan players before deciding exactly what he wants.

Players like Daka, Sancho and White all going for reasonable fees yet we are nowhere to be seen.

Maybe he wants to look at the likes of Ampadu, Guheri, Gallagher, Maatsen, Broja etc. Along with Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Batman etc (yes yes I know the thought is equality hysterical and terrifying).

TT seems the sort of manager to look for certain traits and believe he can polish coal in to diamonds.

If  this is true, we will get  Kepa situation again

 

[Bob stark]

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

I reckon we might end up in a dogfight for top 4 again, granted we might be stronger defensively but the lack of creativity in the side worries me more than a goal scorer.

 

Somebody told me that Werner is a creator though.

[Argo]

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

No top striker and we can kiss any title-hopes goodbye before a ball has been kicked.

So that would be extremely underwhelming coming off the momentum of winning the Champions League. We should aim to kick on while we are European Champions and have a fantastic manager.

We don't need one player to improve by 20 goals though, we need them all to average a 5 ish improvement each.

I'd say that's very much doable.

[Guest Sindre]

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

We don't need one player to improve by 20 goals though, we need them all to average a 5 ish improvement each.

I'd say that's very much doable.

Don't think it's going to be enough.

We'll be competing against teams with absolute killers up front. Liverpool and City we all know about and even United will have the likes of Sancho, Cavani, Rashford, Bruno, Pogba, Greenwood on attacking areas.

Our current options are not going to cut it. Havertz & Mount are good enough and so is Pulisic but you can't trust any of them to score with any regularity yet.

[Argo]

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Don't think it's going to be enough.

We'll be competing against teams with absolute killers up front. Liverpool and City we all know about and even United will have the likes of Sancho, Cavani, Rashford, Bruno, Pogba, Greenwood on attacking areas.

Our current options are not going to cut it. Havertz & Mount are good enough and so is Pulisic but you can't trust any of them to score with any regularity yet.

Sancho may be English but he's no more proven in the PL than Kai and Timo were last year. He's been every shade of sh*te for the national team and vs English teams in UCL.

We brought in a coach like Tuchel to (eventually) get these players firing and he's already found a system that gets the best out of them in a general play sense, now it's about getting the next bit sorted. After all look at Christensen and Rudiger's resurgences, we would have given them away for free in January, now we (especially if we stick to a back 3) are struggling to think on many if any upgrades on them.

We managed to win back to back titles without a 20 plus striker (and ironically lost it the following season when Drogba turned into one) while our main rivals had Henry and RVN, it can be done. Kai, Werner, Mount, Puli, Ziyech and possibly CHO averaging a 5 improvment each will effectively be new striker numbers.

If we were playing largely sh*t and kept getting undeserved point because we had an Aubameyang scoring any half chance we would all be unhappy and the general consensus would be our luck will run out eventually, why can't that work in reverse? If you look at the XG tables since it was created pretty much every team who over or under performed it eventually reverted to their mean.

Also we of all fans should know getting a new forward in isn't the safe bet it's being portrayed as, what if we bring in a new striker because he "guarantees goals" so we scrap the current system that's building up nicely and he doesn't get them then what? 

There's no certain solution to this but I quite like the momentum we're building with false 9 so if we are going to go down the road of signing a near safe bet scorer I would rather it was a wide/inside player, but at the same time, if he stayed in Germany for one more season we'd have all been saying Werner.

[Scott Harris]

3 hours ago, Argo said:

We don't need one player to improve by 20 goals though, we need them all to average a 5 ish improvement each.

I'd say that's very much doable.

I expect more from Havertz next season and I think he is the best option if we want to go with a false 9, but I just don't see anything changing with Werner. He is who is, he will always be that player that is offside and I think he will always be that player that needs a ton of chances to score a goal. Ziyech needs a complete overhaul to his workrate, something that will never happen. Pulisic and Mount can certainly add more goals and assists to their game, but if Pulisic is playing on the right, I don't see it happening. Hudson-Odoi needs to kick on this season or I think the doubts that people are already starting to have about him will increase, but I just don't see his game increasing so drastically so soon.

I look at our lack of goals and I can't help but keep thinking that we need a striker, but at the same time, I worry about how we get Havertz, Mount, Pulisic and a new striker on the field playing together in a 3-4-3. Well the simple answer to that is that we don't, one will drop out (Pulisic most likely) We certainly need improvements somewhere though because even though we won the Champions League, we were well off being title contenders. We need somebody to convert the chances that turn a tight 0-0 into a 1-0, or a 1-0 into a 2-0 to kill a game off, I'm not sure the current lot are quite good enough for that.

It's a tough one because I am pretty certain that Tuchel will stick with a back 3 next season, and we are very strong defensively in that formation. So it makes me wonder what players we could sign that would go straight into the team. There are constant talks about Rice, but I just don't see him getting ahead of Jorginho and Kante in a 3-4-3 system. We are already pretty solid defensively, so is somebody like Rice really necessary? I would argue no, especially at the asking price. Then in the attack, we would end up dropping one of Havertz, Pulisic and Mount if we sign a striker. If we switch to a back 4, then I think that changes everything. I think signing a CB, CDM and ST would be a necessity to get us competing for a league title again. So if we were to look at it that way, it would be easier to stick to a back 3 and maybe make a few upgrades to the squad rather than the first 11.

[Bob stark]

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

We need somebody to convert the chances that turn a tight 0-0 into a 1-0, or a 1-0 into a 2-0 to kill a game off, I'm not sure the current lot are quite good enough for that.

 

Pulisic had good shout that he can be that guy with how he played two seasons ago. 

 

 

 

[Bob stark]

9 hours ago, Sindre said:

No top striker and we can kiss any title-hopes goodbye before a ball has been kicked.

So that would be extremely underwhelming coming off the momentum of winning the Champions League. We should aim to kick on while we are European Champions and have a fantastic manager.

For league title, it will be extremely difficult because you basically need to get 100 points to beat city n pool. 

[LongtimerLurker]

I'm really not worried for next season, Tuchel said 2 or 3 signings and that's what will happen. It’s still the start of the window practically.

Still about 2 months left of negotiations. I'm happy with this squad if we don't add in anybody else, that's fine because we only need elite additions.

This is the important thing to remember not transfers for the sake of transfers. This is what Tuchel meant when he said 2-3. He knows how difficult it will be and so does Marina and Roman etc.

I think creativity wise Ziyech will most likely step up next season, we saw flashes of Kai's creativity throughout the season and Mason is constantly improving his deeper lying passes. Add in Pulisic who isn't just a goalscorer and Werner + CHO we have lots of creativity.

Goal scoring will improve with a pre season with an elite coach. Frank as a player was amazing at goal scoring but he wasn't an elite coach. I expect Tuchel to have more dynamic ways to help deal with the problem. Pulisic should improve, alongside Kai, Ziyech and Werner as they now have more experience under their belt.

Also let's not underestimate our squad no matter what a Chelsea player will win the Euros this season.

We have players within all of the final teams England, Spain, Denmark and Italy. Look at the level, we're alongside Man City with the most players left in the competition. No surprise since we started with the most.

With ot without Haaland I think we have just as good of a chance as anyone else.

Our football will evolve with or without additions, we merely need to stick to having a good defense and improving our attack. If the defense is good we stand a chance at winning the league, all we need to do is create more and finish effectively.

Edited July 5, 2021 by LongtimerLurker

[coco]

https://www.facebook.com/OfficiallThomasTuchel/photos/a.104109055141496/138998724985862/

[Gol15]

On 02/07/2021 at 13:31, Argo said:

Sancho may be English but he's no more proven in the PL than Kai and Timo were last year. He's been every shade of sh*te for the national team and vs English teams in UCL.

We brought in a coach like Tuchel to (eventually) get these players firing and he's already found a system that gets the best out of them in a general play sense, now it's about getting the next bit sorted. After all look at Christensen and Rudiger's resurgences, we would have given them away for free in January, now we (especially if we stick to a back 3) are struggling to think on many if any upgrades on them.

We managed to win back to back titles without a 20 plus striker (and ironically lost it the following season when Drogba turned into one) while our main rivals had Henry and RVN, it can be done. Kai, Werner, Mount, Puli, Ziyech and possibly CHO averaging a 5 improvment each will effectively be new striker numbers.

If we were playing largely sh*t and kept getting undeserved point because we had an Aubameyang scoring any half chance we would all be unhappy and the general consensus would be our luck will run out eventually, why can't that work in reverse? If you look at the XG tables since it was created pretty much every team who over or under performed it eventually reverted to their mean.

Also we of all fans should know getting a new forward in isn't the safe bet it's being portrayed as, what if we bring in a new striker because he "guarantees goals" so we scrap the current system that's building up nicely and he doesn't get them then what? 

There's no certain solution to this but I quite like the momentum we're building with false 9 so if we are going to go down the road of signing a near safe bet scorer I would rather it was a wide/inside player, but at the same time, if he stayed in Germany for one more season we'd have all been saying Werner.

I would really love to see a new signing but at the same time I'm very optimistic about our squad continuing to improve.

If Werner improves his finishing only a little bit we won't have a problem scoring goals next season, I have said that Kai Havertz should be given the time as a starter so for me our backbone in attack should be Mount and Kai in the starting lineup. Kai can be our false 9 in a similar way that Man City has been using De Bruyne, him and Mount can be all over the pitch and winning games easy for the team. As long as we manage to keep this high level of defending I'm sure that Werner and Kai will only get better and you could add Mount and Pulisic to that as well.

[weetee]

35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I would really love to see a new signing but at the same time I'm very optimistic about our squad continuing to improve.

If Werner improves his finishing only a little bit we won't have a problem scoring goals next season, I have said that Kai Havertz should be given the time as a starter so for me our backbone in attack should be Mount and Kai in the starting lineup. Kai can be our false 9 in a similar way that Man City has been using De Bruyne, him and Mount can be all over the pitch and winning games easy for the team. As long as we manage to keep this high level of defending I'm sure that Werner and Kai will only get better and you could add Mount and Pulisic to that as well.

Agreed about the team being already exciting as is.

Was wondering if a 433 with Jorgi/Kanté/Mount in the center could work against low block teams? Of course Rüdiger would have to seriously step up his game re: back four but I wouldn't put it past him - if anybody could get him to work in that system I guess it would be Tuchel. Alongside Thiago and Jorgi in front he'd have plenty of experience next to him to keep him in check (sort of). Because if we get one potential attacking (minded) playing in it should generally be easier for the rest to score as well.

 

I'm not banking on Werner to improve much but Havertz should come good.

Edited July 7, 2021 by weetee

[Gol15]

28 minutes ago, weetee said:

Agreed about the team being already exciting as is.

Was wondering if a 433 with Jorgi/Kanté/Mount in the center could work against low block teams? Of course Rüdiger would have to seriously step up his game re: back four but I wouldn't put it past him - if anybody could get him to work in that system I guess it would be Tuchel. Alongside Thiago and Jorgi in front he'd have plenty of experience next to him to keep him in check (sort of). Because if we get one potential attacking (minded) playing in it should generally be easier for the rest to score as well.

 

I'm not banking on Werner to improve much but Havertz should come good.

I think that in a back 4 formation our safest CB duo would be T.Silva and Christensen, clearly Rudiger and Zouma would need to improve for that formation like you say. Mount looked much worse while playing a bit deeper this previous season but in a 4-3-3 he wouldn't need to adjust much, maybe just a little bit.

It's more probable that Werner plays better than staying the same or worse, same for Kai and Pulisic but Pulisic would need to get better on that right hand side too, a new attacker would help but sadly I don't see any good enough target for us now that Haaland seems to be unlikely. Still if you ask me it would be great if we sign at least a top CB that would allow us to switch to a back 4 formation without much worries, I'm not so sure if we can keep our stable defensive record going under Tuchel without a new quality defender.

[weetee]

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think that in a back 4 formation our safest CB duo would be T.Silva and Christensen, clearly Rudiger and Zouma would need to improve for that formation like you say. Mount looked much worse while playing a bit deeper this previous season but in a 4-3-3 he wouldn't need to adjust much, maybe just a little bit.

It's more probable that Werner plays better than staying the same or worse, same for Kai and Pulisic but Pulisic would need to get better on that right hand side too, a new attacker would help but sadly I don't see any good enough target for us now that Haaland seems to be unlikely. Still if you ask me it would be great if we sign at least a top CB that would allow us to switch to a back 4 formation without much worries, I'm not so sure if we can keep our stable defensive record going under Tuchel without a new quality defender.

Christensen and Rüdi are somewhat on the same page for me -> greyzone where I can see them work within an b4 but enough questionmarks left that I remain very sceptic of the whole thing altogether.

Isn't Mount playing deeper for England anyway? I can't imagine that he'd be poor alongside Kanté and Jorgi. Like Barella in the Italian squad. He drops deep to help out in the Chelsea build-up already anyway - and with great success given his phenomenal passing range and precision combined with the right mindset and legs to run forever.

I'm not as critical of Werner as you are so if he keeps up his input he'd still contribute loads in a 433  - main part would be for the other two attacking players to use that space more clinical. Havertz should step up 1-2 levels to last season as a given - hope he stays injury free. I'm more worried about the third spot actually if Mount plays more centrally. Ziyech remains a sphinx to me and Pulisic..dunno. He seems so patchy with his imho rather fragile form/output. Back to the transfer-thread: if Haaland isn't available this summer I think Griezman wouldn't be that bad as a shout as I thought a couple of weeks ago. Great workrate, good in tight spaces and way better at finishing than Werner but not as pacey. Could be a great front three with Mount right behind.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by weetee

[ducavis]

42 minutes ago, weetee said:

Christensen and Rüdi are somewhat on the same page for me -> greyzone where I can see them work within an b4 but enough questionmarks left that I remain very sceptic of the whole thing altogether.

Isn't Mount playing deeper for England anyway? I can't imagine that he'd be poor alongside Kanté and Jorgi. Like Barella in the Italian squad. He drops deep to help out in the Chelsea build-up already anyway - and with great success given his phenomenal passing range and precision combined with the right mindset and legs to run forever.

I'm not as critical of Werner as you are so if he keeps up his input he'd still contribute loads in a 433  - main part would be for the other two attacking players to use that space more clinical. Havertz should step up 1-2 levels to last season as a given - hope he stays injury free. I'm more worried about the third spot actually if Mount plays more centrally. Ziyech remains a sphinx to me and Pulisic..dunno. He seems so patchy with his imho rather fragile form/output. Back to the transfer-thread: if Haaland isn't available this summer I think Griezman wouldn't be that bad as a shout as I thought a couple of weeks ago. Great workrate, good in tight spaces and way better at finishing than Werner but not as pacey. Could be a great front three with Mount right behind.

 

Griezmann is on €800k/w+, zero chance of him moving on those wages.

[Sexyfootball]

17 hours ago, ducavis said:

Griezmann is on €800k/w+, zero chance of him moving on those wages.

Plus he's too old and too similar to what we have already 🙂

[The Don Antonio]

I think it is imperative that we add elite players to the team. I don't want to be a buzzkill but the fact of the matter is that our 343(False 9)  got figured out at the end of the season with us losing 3 of our last 4 domestic games before won the UCL. They let us have the ball and parked the bus knowing fully well that we didnt have the creative players to break them down. Luckily for us Man City don't play that way hence us hitting them on the break and winning the UCL.

Hopefully we get Haaland . I don't consider Lukaku as an Elite striker . 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by The Don Antonio

[ducavis]

17 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

I think it is imperative that we add elite players to the team. I don't want to be a buzzkill but the fact of the matter is that our 343(False 9)  got figured out at the end of the season with us losing 3 of our last 4 domestic games before won the UCL. They let us have the ball and parked the bus knowing fully well that we didnt have the creative players to break them down. Luckily for us Man City don't play that way hence us hitting them on the break and winning the UCL.

Hopefully we get Haaland . I don't consider Lukaku as an Elite striker . 

 

👏.. if he insists of playing a 3-4-3, the lack of creativity also needs to be addressed alongside a Striker.

Personally I am sceptical of the formation actively challenging in a very long season where we are competing in 5 competitions.