7 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

I've got a distinct feeling, The Government would like to see the PL run like the Bundesliga, Fan owned, well at least 51%, all that European Kudos bestowed on Bayern ,Dortmund and PSG, we could of had that if we'd waited, surely Roman knew that us fans wouldn't accept this sham of a breakaway, before that half arsed explanation is supposed to appease us, come on Roman A

This would help keep things as they are and as fans like it. Problem is the rich sides that are already owned by a rich guy or a group of investors. If the government forced through a law that the fans own 51% if the club and the investor can only have 49% these current investors would leave and sell their shares. 

In Germany and France you can check the table on how competitive the leagues are in terms of winning the league. A level playing field is what European football will never achieve in the system we are in. If you want other teams to win the league you need a new system. That is what the American sports have in their advantage. 

The current Premier League is as intriguing as it has ever been and that is because the heavy investments by multiple clubs, tv money and the massive influx of best managers and players throughout the table. Probably not sustainable but I guess at the moment we just have to enjoy it. 

 

I probably sound like a stuck record on this point, but why is it that Chelsea is the only one of the "big 6" that feels it does not have to apologise for its shocking mistake of joining the ESL? Just a half baked statement on the website, the PR at our club is pathetic.

I am not seeking a personal impassioned speech from Roman, just an acknowledgment that the Club made a mistake by taking us the fans, the players and Manager for granted when we had no part in the debacle.  ALL of the other 5 have done the decent thing, why do Chelsea feel they don't need to????

Edited April 22, 20215 yr by coombsie

What more do you want? They listened, initiated the pulling out and got the ball rolling on the whole thing dead ' b b b b but they didnt say sorry!'. actions speak louder than words.

They did it in the first place, I find the other clubs putting out the easy say the right words statement a bit insincere and I'm surprised how easily people ate that sh*t up. If they were really sorry they wouldn't have waited for us and city to get the ball rolling.

Why argue about verbage.

Edited April 22, 20215 yr by Stim

The club very rarely speaks to us the fans and I just think that with an issue this potentially damaging to the relationship with it's fans, it might have thought it should try to explain its thinking behind taking part and pulling out

The following was posted by AC Milan Supporters Group Curva Sud. Not sure if already posted.

“Honestly, it makes us laugh to see all those people in the control room of football suddenly claim we fans are first and foremost.

“The Super League is just the latest in a long line of innumerable manoeuvres over decades that has made football into a business.

“The birth of this new competition would certainly be another shove to the football of old, which is by now a distant memory, and will inevitably obscure the tradition of the various national leagues, robbing football of the undeniable principle of sporting meritocracy.

“But the thing that most leaves us indignant is the hypocrisy of all those who contributed to making this sport nothing but a business, those who today stand up in name of the fans, but only because they saw their remunerative and seemingly untouchable project fall apart.

“Football did belong to the people until the 1990s, when the Champions League was born, destroying the old European Cup. From that moment, an unbreachable chasm has been created between the big and small clubs.

“Football did belong to the people even when nobody lifted a finger to stop the increase of ticket prices that was imposed by some Presidents.

“Football did belong to the people even when nobody stepped in to stop the rise of the super agents, who took player salaries to ever more astronomical figures, which could only be sustained with TV rights, the same TV companies that imposed increasingly chaotic fixture lists, with games on improbable days and kick-off times.

“Football did belong to the people even when rules were imposed to stop any rapport between the players and the fans.

“Football did belong to the people even when Supercoppa Finals were played on other continents or the dates of some games were changed a few days before kick-off, damaging those fans who had booked trains or planes to get to the stadium.

“Football did belong to the people even when some clubs were allowed to circumvent Financial Fair Play, while others with less influential Presidents were penalised.

“Football did belong to the people even when the World Cup was forced to Qatar in 2022, despite moving the entire calendar and disregarding human rights violations.

“We could list numerous other examples to show the absolute hypocrisy of the words we’re hearing from the football chiefs over the last 48 hours.

“The Super League is just the latest disgusting step, but those who took football to this point are no less grotesque, so save us these ludicrous performances of rhetoric and morality.

“Now that the money is running out, feel free to fight it out between yourselves, but don’t you dare name the fans. PIGS!”

If history tells us one thing it’s that when there are victors be it in politics be it a war the 100% wrong approach is to rub the noses of those that lost in the dirt.

The way WW1 ended is the classic example the fact that the Germans were treated so badly they thirsted for change along came Mr Hitler and we all know how the story progressed.

These aren’t my words but they articulate things far better than I ever could

 

The club owning billionaires remind me of the Orwellian driven movie Rollerball where corporations fought each other in a vicious roller skating with a ball game. It wasn’t so much the futuristic game where players were out to kill and maim opposing team players, but what shook me back in 1975 was the way the baying-for-blood spectators recreating a modern day gladiators kill or be killed to win at all costs. It was shock to the system for us who were brought up on free love and hippy power that was the atmosphere we grew up in. 

Ok, we’re not close to that happening and hopefully never will be, but movies are often windows to the future that have a habit of becoming real life, such as space travel to Mars and the Moon.

The last few days represented a glimpse of the future albeit one of great avarice by people so far removed from the game and who never understood the game in the first place. 

These billionaires don’t need the money to live their exorbitant lives. They have enough for many lifetimes; they just want to win because pretty much they’ve been winning all their lives where their successful exploits have allowed them to buy their way to whatever they want and out of most of the troubles they land themselves in because money buys them almost anything g on the planet. Most countries have had their own Kennedy family where their wealth was amassed from nefarious means, are todays billionaire club members any different? 

Jeff Bezos doesn’t want to pay his Amazon workers livable wages or give work contracts that offers a modicum of job security if press reports are to be believed. £113 billion just isn’t enough for Bezos it would seem. Cutbacks are still needed to squeeze people trying to survive on pennies instead of pounds for the needy Bezos coffers. 

What of the middle east football involvement from countries, such as Qatar? Do they know what it’s like to scrimp and save to stand on the cold, wet and windy terraces with their fathers, brothers and uncles? 

Has sheik whatever his name might be ever really played the game in a league at any level? Probably, if he has, it would be sand football six a side or maybe at Eton, Harrow or similar during PE lessons hating every minute of it because a lumbering BoJo has just wiped a sheik in a full body tackle claiming he forgot he was playing football instead of rugger. 

A jolly tease all round, what? haha. Ooops get the nurse? Or will it require and ambulance sir? I don’t think his leg is meant to face two directions at the same time. Smart lad that Boris, he’ll go far with his dad clearing up perpetual messes behind him.

 

Anyone here who has had to live in the committees’ world of operations will know how difficult it is to find complete accord all round that meets everyone’s need and expectations.

Working out the future of football in going to take time because of the potential billions or trillions that can be made from the game from the billions who love the game now and in the future.

Generally people hate change it messes with their settled pictures of how things are and how it works for them.

Why do we need change? Because football is becoming stale and mechanical losing its way in the jungle of money and parasites both on and off the pitch.

The institution of football is dying. 

Just look at The FA cup and how it’s been devalued where once those of us fortunate not to work weekends used to set aside most of the day to watch the warm up TV coverages that often started mid morning and ran until early evening. Those that did work had radios with an earphone we’d try to hide stuck in our ears or more senior people would hide in the board rooms watching a TV normally used for presentations or similar.

This article got me thinking did the owners really not have a clue as to how this would all play out ? I just can’t get my head around the fact that so many astute businessmen didn’t have some sort of data from focus groups . 
 

Ok that’s the cynic in me but having been involved in several complex negotiations the classic approach is to ask for the impossible and negotiate yourself into the position that you can accept.

Time will tell but if anyone thinks that change of one sort or another isn’t coming then I think they are going to be sadly disappointed 

 

But the thing that most leaves us indignant is the hypocrisy of all those who contributed to making this sport nothing but a business, those who today stand up in name of the fans, but only because they saw their remunerative and seemingly untouchable project fall apart.

“Football did belong to the people until the 1990s, when the Champions League was born, destroying the old European Cup. From that moment, an unbreachable chasm has been created between the big and small clubs.

“Football did belong to the people even when nobody lifted a finger to stop the increase of ticket prices that was imposed by some Presidents.
 

Sort of goes along with what I was trying to say in my original post

17 hours ago, Munkworth said:

@sonic90 It’s on sale.

I'll wait for us to reach the CL final and get the final version, then after we lose it can be the worse thing I own for 2 reasons.

7 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

I'll wait for us to reach the CL final and get the final version, then after we lose it can be the worse thing I own for 2 reasons.

Quoting for reference again. 
 

If we don’t get to the final though you’re not getting out of it 

Edited April 22, 20215 yr by Munkworth

Me being a complete outsider from the traditional English football fan living outside of England and not having the history of being born to a club this outrage doesn't make complete sense. I agree it is not my place to comment on it either. It is not mine. I understand that. I am a Chelsea fan since 1995 rooting for the club the way I can. Mainly watching the games via TV and taking part in this brilliant forum we have. Have visited SB a couple of times and saw us beat Villa 8-0 in my only live match. Got lucky that time. 

Anyway. The way I see it from outside the top of the football pyramid (as people call it) has already been a business for decades. Top flight football sides want to make profit. The small clubs dreaming of playing in Europe want to be that top side. They want to sell shirts in Asia as that is mark of a modern top football club. They want their club to be the next Real or Chelsea. 

The difference between a consumer and fan is not big looking from the outside. The other word for me from outside is a curse word the other is something to cherish. This is the difference for me is very hard to spot. This is why this outrage is sort of weird to me. The part I understand is that things would change or that someone is taking something we like away from us. Naturally the closed series is something new and it would create even bigger gulf between top 15 and others that is a given. 

Anyway I was moved by the people that stood for this agenda and what it eventually did. I am learning this about the culture every day. I am very happy this ESL died in its tracks and at the same time I would love a change that would lead to a better competition between clubs.

 

12 hours ago, Argo said:

I can't stress enough how it's frustrating me that the same energy isn't being shown elsewhere. This shows just what powers fans have but it will always be shown too sparingly.

Why not strike while the iron is hot and protest against UEFA's plans for revamped CL that gives two places based on history? Why not protest about the flawed reward system in this country that see's the basement side get £180m (TV deals and parachute payments) but the winner of the Carabao Cup get a mere 100k? Why not protest about the fact human beings have died working on stadia for the next world cup? Is it because Gary Neville isnt telling us too? 

Make no mistake UEFA's revamped plan is going to turn into a super league in all but name, they're just a little bit smarter and will drip feed it bit by bit, the very few who see through it won't be able to do anything because not enough people will care because they've "got their game back".

I am on a group with football fans on Facebook there's about 30 for us, for two days 10 in the group were raging about the ESL and saying all the things everyone else was saying, this morning I make a similar post to this about the Uefa plan and out of those 10 only one reacted while the others seen and ignored it, so it begs the question, were the other 9 really that outraged about the super league or were they doing it for likes and/or to fit in?

And the most sickening thing about this is that Sky and Uefa have used this to basically cement a status as untouchable.

These protests against the ESL are all well and good, but unless we keep up the same energy for UEFA's plans all we're doing is basically signing up for the same thing just a different organization and a little bit more of a subtal approach.

I agree Argo, but i don't see Uefa getting it all their own way, the UK government will hold a review into football which will look into three main areas: the financial sustainability of the English game; the experience of fans, including at matches; and the wider governance and ownership of clubs. If we end up going down the '51% rule' road that will be two of the biggest leagues in Europe signed up, the fans will have the power to push back against Uefa when they try imposing changes that are not favourable to us. 

How can the fans afford 51% of the club ? The government could buy the 51% from all the clubs owners, and then legislate a tax on tickets to redeem the cost, dropping the tax when the money is repaid. Sunak has a printer.

2 minutes ago, coco said:

How can the fans afford 51% of the club ? The government could buy the 51% from all the clubs owners, and then legislate a tax on tickets to redeem the cost, dropping the tax when the money is repaid. Sunak has a printer.

I don't think that would go down very well (even among some football supporters like me) when this very government has let some of the country industries die slowly without doing much or has reduced the help for people with especial needs. Even more, they've let some lesser football teams disappear or go into bankruptcy, why should they do it now for the bigger clubs? If anything, I can only trust this government to sell the clubs to their Eton chums for peanuts.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

I don't think that would go down very well (even among some football supporters like me) when this very government has let some of the country industries die slowly without doing much or has reduced the help for people with especial needs. Even more, they've let some lesser football teams disappear or go into bankruptcy, why should they do it now for the bigger clubs? If anything, I can only trust this government to sell the clubs to their Eton chums for peanuts.

It could be a loan with favourable interest, not a handout.

Interesting comment by Perez. Goodness knows where he got the figure of 40 from. I bet he wishes Real Madrid's former patron was still in charge in Spain.

Triggered 

Professional football in Germany amounts to just three divisions of 56 teams in total. In England alone there are over 110 professional teams located in the PL, EFL and NL

The 50%+ 1 model only came into being some 20 odd years ago prior to that it was 100% ownership by members.

As recently as three years ago Bayern Munich were arguing against the rule and here’s the crunch that rule isn’t applied if the club has been in private ownership for a period of time. For instance Wolfsburg are 100% opened by VW

Others like RB do comply but have a very small number of members and membership is thought to  annually cost millions.

A 50% +1 model whilst attractive for PL but it would be the end for most of those professional clubs outside of the PL particularly the lower divisions of the EFL and for certain non league . These clubs clubs rely massively on majority owners donations and from personal experience I can  tell you that these owners simply won’t put their money in unless they have total control. Why would they ?

Because of the non negotiable requirement of relegation and promotion then if say a club had aspirations to get from a lower league to the PL then by my logic you either have to have exceptions like Germany , apply 50+1%to all professional football clubs or a club would have to change its ownership model when it became successful which then comes back to the point why would you invest money to gain success if you then loose control?

Edited April 22, 20215 yr by terraloon

1 minute ago, terraloon said:

or a club would have to change its ownership model when it became successful which then comes back to the point why would you invest money to gain success if you the loose control.

Yes that's they way to go, and no exceptions. Reducing the money in the game is the ultimate target imo.

27 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Professional football in Germany amounts to just three divisions of 56 teams in total. In England alone there are over 110 professional teams located in the PL, EFL and NL

The 50%+ 1 model only came into being some 20 odd years ago prior to that it was 100% ownership by members.

As recently as three years ago Bayern Munich were arguing against the rule and here’s the crunch that rule isn’t applied if the club has been in private ownership for a period of time. For instance Wolfsburg are 100% opened by VW

Others like RB do comply but have a very small number of members and membership is thought to  annually cost millions.

A 50% +1 model whilst attractive for PL but it would be the end for most of those professional clubs outside of the PL particularly the lower divisions of the EFL and for certain non league . These clubs clubs rely massively on majority owners donations and from personal experience I can  tell you that these owners simply won’t put their money in unless they have total control. Why would they ?

Because of the non negotiable requirement of relegation and promotion then if say a club had aspirations to get from a lower league to the PL then by my logic you either have to have exceptions like Germany , apply 50+1%to all professional football clubs or a club would have to change its ownership model when it became successful which then comes back to the point why would you invest money to gain success if you then loose control?

In Spain happened something similar around 25-30 years ago or so. Clubs were owned by the supporters (socios) and due to the debt that many had incurred, the government introduced a law that clubs would have to become private (Sociedad Anónima Deportiva). Only four clubs that had their finances in order were allowed to remain as supporters-owned clubs and these were Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, Ath. Club Bilbao and Osasuna. What I mean with this is that supporters ownership does not necessarily mean less greed or being less business-like minded, and Presidents find their way to manipulate the supporters' assemblies. 

If Real Madrid haven't pulled out of ESL yet, I can't see how they would be allowed to compete in champions league? Especially with Perez as their president!

14 hours ago, Argo said:

I can't stress enough how it's frustrating me that the same energy isn't being shown elsewhere. This shows just what powers fans have but it will always be shown too sparingly.

Why not strike while the iron is hot and protest against UEFA's plans for revamped CL that gives two places based on history? Why not protest about the flawed reward system in this country that see's the basement side get £180m (TV deals and parachute payments) but the winner of the Carabao Cup get a mere 100k? Why not protest about the fact human beings have died working on stadia for the next world cup? Is it because Gary Neville isnt telling us too? 

Make no mistake UEFA's revamped plan is going to turn into a super league in all but name, they're just a little bit smarter and will drip feed it bit by bit, the very few who see through it won't be able to do anything because not enough people will care because they've "got their game back".

And the most sickening thing about this is that Sky and Uefa have used this to basically cement a status as untouchable.

These protests against the ESL are all well and good, but unless we keep up the same energy for UEFA's plans all we're doing is basically signing up for the same thing just a different organization and a little bit more of a subtal approach.

This is interesting and this being the case you have to wonder why the ESL group did not make a better argument or are our media suppressing a story to run with one that suits 'their' agenda?

I believe that fans can email Johnson about things they want changing and he replies saying 'I'll fix this'. 

It could be just billionaires he says this to, though.

Some Man Utd fans broke into the team's training ground Solskjaer spoke to them. Fair play to the staff for speaking to the fans. Just a shame its not board members speaking to fans, If it was good news the board members would be speaking to the fans and no doubt wanting to garner praise. I'm a cynical old bastard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56843743

Manchester United boss Ole Gunnar Solskjaer spoke to fans who entered the club's training ground at Carrington on Thursday to protest against the Glazer family's ownership.

Over a dozen fans entered the complex but have now left.

They had banners saying 'Glazers Out' and '51% MUFC'.

Co-chairman Joel Glazer would have been a vice-chairman of the European Super League before United withdrew on Tuesday after a furious backlash.

On Wednesday, he issued a letter of apology admitting the club made a mistake joining the proposed breakaway competition.

"At approximately 9am this morning a group gained access to the club training ground," said United in a statement.

"The manager and others spoke to them. Buildings were secure and the group has now left the site."

Solskjaer was joined by coach Michael Carrick, technical director Darren Fletcher and midfielder Nemanja Matic in speaking to the fans, who were pictured at the security entrance, outside the main entrance and on a training pitch.

United were one of six Premier League clubs to sign up to the European Super League, before they all withdrew within 48 hours of the competition being announced.

"We failed to show enough respect for its deep-rooted traditions," Glazer said in an open letter to fans.

There has been a long-standing campaign against the Glazer family since the Americans' controversial leveraged takeover of the club in 2005.

No one does wit and piss taking like Chelsea fans we are the masters of it always have been and this just proves it