Chelsea breakaway from breakaway European Super League

[terraloon]

1 hour ago, coco said:

Yes that's they way to go, and no exceptions. Reducing the money in the game is the ultimate target imo.

Would be the end for many many clubs at grass root level.  As for English clubs competing on the European stage forget that. Would in a matter of years see the UEFA  co- efficient down to Scottish levels.

[coco]

Just now, terraloon said:

Would be the end for many many clubs at grass root level.  As for English clubs competing on the European stage forget that. Would in a matter of years see the UEFA  co- efficient down to Scottish levels.

Their will be enough money in the game to keep the status quo, sponsors wont be vanishing, meaning tv rights will remain pretty high, i don't see how you think grassroots will be destroyed by capping the investment being pumped in by some owners, its debt they are piling on the clubs, not investment.

[Sexyfootball]

The problem these big clubs all face isn't not having enough money. They get plenty of money as it is, thanks to the likes of Sky.

The reason they aren't making any money and have such huge debts is because they can't tell their arse from the elbow when it comes to the basics of running a business. They spend more than they earn, in some cases considerably more, and a colossal contributor is the obscene and disproportionate wages that are now paid to professional footballers. I have no idea why they aren't campaigning for a salary cap, and an absolute one at that, and not just as a % of turnover. And surely they could all easily agree that no-one will pay any agent more than £20K for a single transfer deal ?

 

[coco]

13 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

The problem these big clubs all face isn't not having enough money. They get plenty of money as it is, thanks to the likes of Sky.

The reason they aren't making any money and have such huge debts is because they can't tell their arse from the elbow when it comes to the basics of running a business. They spend more than they earn, in some cases considerably more, and a colossal contributor is the obscene and disproportionate wages that are now paid to professional footballers. I have no idea why they aren't campaigning for a salary cap, and an absolute one at that, and not just as a % of turnover. And surely they could all easily agree that no-one will pay any agent more than £20K for a single transfer deal ?

 

Thye were injecting obscene amounts of money because they thought the ESL was going to be the golden goose. Even back in 2003 we were all puzzled why Roman was attracted to the club, people went along with the "he's a Chelsea fan" line, but did we really believe it ? 

[evissy]

24 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

The problem these big clubs all face isn't not having enough money. They get plenty of money as it is, thanks to the likes of Sky.

The reason they aren't making any money and have such huge debts is because they can't tell their arse from the elbow when it comes to the basics of running a business. They spend more than they earn, in some cases considerably more, and a colossal contributor is the obscene and disproportionate wages that are now paid to professional footballers. I have no idea why they aren't campaigning for a salary cap, and an absolute one at that, and not just as a % of turnover. And surely they could all easily agree that no-one will pay any agent more than £20K for a single transfer deal ?

 

And here you enter to the stage of American sports. Salary caps, no colossal transfer fees (blood sucking agents), money distributed more evenly between teams and healthier base for economics. 

Oil tycoon or Saudi wealth is not that interested in the business side of it. It becomes more of a passion. That is what fans want I think. 

[evissy]

Massive problem between Championship and Premier league is you basically win the lottery coming up. Some 170m pounds to the side that wins the place in the sun (Premier League). Promotion/relegation is brilliant for fans but nightmare for the business owner. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by evissy

[Argo]

5 minutes ago, evissy said:

Massive problem between Championship and Premier league is you basically win the lottery coming up. Some 170m pounds to the side that wins the place in the sun (Premier League). Promotion/relegation is brilliant for fans but nightmare for the business owner. 

You get parachute payments by going back down aswell which has made a massive gulf between the "ex prem" teams in the Champ and the rest, look at the top half of the table this year, it's basically Prem plus, two of last year's relegated teams are coming back up automatically while the other will probably be the favourites in the play offs. There may aswell be no relegation in the top flight given how it gets rewarded.

When the occasional Yeovil or Wycombe happen in the second tier they simply can't compete and get sent back packing. 

[EdinburghBlue]

3 hours ago, coco said:

I agree Argo, but i don't see Uefa getting it all their own way, the UK government will hold a review into football which will look into three main areas: the financial sustainability of the English game; the experience of fans, including at matches; and the wider governance and ownership of clubs. If we end up going down the '51% rule' road that will be two of the biggest leagues in Europe signed up, the fans will have the power to push back against Uefa when they try imposing changes that are not favourable to us. 

The same government that investigated institutional racism, gave tory part donors government contracts or offered 1% wages increases to the NHS, which is below anticipated inflation after 18 months of a pandemic.
 

Wouldn’t trust the c**ts to run a bath never mind an accurate and fair assessment on football governance.

[terraloon]

1 hour ago, coco said:

Their will be enough money in the game to keep the status quo, sponsors wont be vanishing, meaning tv rights will remain pretty high, i don't see how you think grassroots will be destroyed by capping the investment being pumped in by some owners, its debt they are piling on the clubs, not investment.

That’s simply not the case in all instances but even when it is the debt is quite often owed to the majority shareholder. When I look at clubs accounts I rarely see  that the auditors say that the club is a going concern.

Look at the likes of Southend they have a debt of approx £13 million all owed to the owner . Had their owner not  kept putting money in they Southend, would have been gone years ago.

Or what about Notts Forest. On a turnover of £25 million they made an operating loss of £31 million.The bulk of their debt is again their owners.

When  get down to non league then it becomes even more apparent. Clubs like Boreham Wood, Havant and Waterlooville , Chesterfield, Notts County simply wouldn’t survive without the support of their owners and to whom the clubs owe extraordinary sum.

Of course they could cut their cloth differently but players wages kill just about every club. Most professional players at Div 2 clubs are earning around £75k a year but let’s forget  figure and assume they are £45k a year. A squad of 20 with say with 5 support staff and say 5 admin staff,(which most clubs even in the NL have more than that) add in a couple of grounds men, cleaners , stewards and before you blink wages with NIC, pension contributions and your over £2 million. 
Away match day travel, insurance , utility bills and bang that’s another £1/2 a million.  That’s before you talk about ground maintenance costs signing on fees . I could go on and you’d be staggered as to the cost of simple little things like a license to play music over a tannoy

A club that averages say 5000  ( league two average when  supporters could attend was way less than this and 5 of the teams average less than 3k,)with paying on average say £25 each ( which after concessions I doubt many clubs outside the Championship  yield that ) over what 25 games is £2.5 million less VAT leaves £2 million which even on the wages I talk about isn’t enough.

 

When you drill down through non league the gap between gate receipts and outgoings grow like and you do actually wonder how non league would survive without benefactors 

As for sponsors well other than Fred the plumber who puts a couple of hundred in each year  very few non league clubs have much coming in by way of sponsorship. EFL clubs get a little more 

[Scott Harris]

😐

[axman2526]

8 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

😐

To be fair I have no issue with Rangers and Celtic join the English league, we already have Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham from Wales in it.

I think the main issue would be them jumping straight in to the PL. That would be unfair to a number of clubs trying to get promoted.

[Upsetter]

9 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

😐

I saw that yesterday, quoted elsewhere from The S*n.

The S*n and TalkSport says all you need to know.

Pile of sh*te.

[Scott Harris]

Just now, axman2526 said:

To be fair I have no issue with Rangers and Celtic join the English league, we already have Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham from Wales in it.

I think the main issue would be them jumping straight in to the PL. That would be unfair to a number of clubs trying to get promoted.

Same, I don't have a problem with them joining English football, but they should have to earn their place in the top division. They want in, then they should start from the bottom.

I'm not a fan of the other rumours either. 18 teams, a top 4 play off for the title, it sounds awful. It would be like Rugby where you could top the table by 20 points and still end up losing the title.

[Scott Harris]

10 minutes ago, Upsetter said:

I saw that yesterday, quoted elsewhere from The S*n.

The S*n and TalkSport says all you need to know.

Pile of sh*te.

You're probably right, It would just be like the Sun to push a bullsh*t storyline right now.

[Bob stark]

17 hours ago, Argo said:

 

Why not strike while the iron is hot and protest against UEFA's plans for revamped CL that gives two places based on history? Why not protest about the flawed reward system in this country that see's the basement side get £180m (TV deals and parachute payments) but the winner of the Carabao Cup get a mere 100k? Why not protest about the fact human beings have died working on stadia for the next world cup? Is it because Gary Neville isnt telling us too? 

 

Hmm you can ask tv to pay more money for Carabao Cup contract then it won't be 100k? It is that sinple. 

In term of UEFA new ucl, it is stupid but if the club want more money you need to play more games or play more bigger games. It is that simple. So either have a super league or add more games . There is no magic solution. 

[evissy]

1 hour ago, Argo said:

You get parachute payments by going back down aswell which has made a massive gulf between the "ex prem" teams in the Champ and the rest, look at the top half of the table this year, it's basically Prem plus, two of last year's relegated teams are coming back up automatically while the other will probably be the favourites in the play offs. There may aswell be no relegation in the top flight given how it gets rewarded.

When the occasional Yeovil or Wycombe happen in the second tier they simply can't compete and get sent back packing. 

Yes so you make the lottery winners basically so rich they almost automatically get up to Prem. But it is hard to make good mechanics with this promotion/relegation system. 

All systems have their flaws. 

[coco]

45 minutes ago, terraloon said:

That’s simply not the case in all instances but even when it is the debt is quite often owed to the majority shareholder. When I look at clubs accounts I rarely see  that the auditors say that the club is a going concern.

Look at the likes of Southend they have a debt of approx £13 million all owed to the owner . Had their owner not  kept putting money in they Southend, would have been gone years ago.

Or what about Notts Forest. On a turnover of £25 million they made an operating loss of £31 million.The bulk of their debt is again their owners.

When  get down to non league then it becomes even more apparent. Clubs like Boreham Wood, Havant and Waterlooville , Chesterfield, Notts County simply wouldn’t survive without the support of their owners and to whom the clubs owe extraordinary sum.

Of course they could cut their cloth differently but players wages kill just about every club. Most professional players at Div 2 clubs are earning around £75k a year but let’s forget  figure and assume they are £45k a year. A squad of 20 with say with 5 support staff and say 5 admin staff,(which most clubs even in the NL have more than that) add in a couple of grounds men, cleaners , stewards and before you blink wages with NIC, pension contributions and your over £2 million. 
Away match day travel, insurance , utility bills and bang that’s another £1/2 a million.  That’s before you talk about ground maintenance costs signing on fees . I could go on and you’d be staggered as to the cost of simple little things like a license to play music over a tannoy

A club that averages say 5000  ( league two average when  supporters could attend was way less than this and 5 of the teams average less than 3k,)with paying on average say £25 each ( which after concessions I doubt many clubs outside the Championship  yield that ) over what 25 games is £2.5 million less VAT leaves £2 million which even on the wages I talk about isn’t enough.

 

When you drill down through non league the gap between gate receipts and outgoings grow like and you do actually wonder how non league would survive without benefactors 

As for sponsors well other than Fred the plumber who puts a couple of hundred in each year  very few non league clubs have much coming in by way of sponsorship. EFL clubs get a little more 

All the debts come from overspending on fees and wages for players, gambling money and piling up debt under the guise of investment. Those owners should bear the cost of their gambling debts. Any other clubs with debts from bad business decisions deserve to go under, and the fans that failed to turn up and support them will lose their club, that's life. Football clubs lower down have to be viable economically. My local club survives well, playing local lads in front of 100-200 fans, decent bar with dance floor, everyone loves the club, no reason why others cannot do the same.

[axman2526]

Not surprised by it bit still a bit sadden to see the momentum from this being wasted on petty club tribal matters rather than for the betterment of the game.

United fans using this moment to go after the glazers,  Liverpool fans after FSG, Arsenal fans after Kronke, Spurs fans after Enic. 

They were long unhappy with them before all this and are taking advantage to drum up further influence on the matter.

The super league idea was a terrible one, but one that came from a place of UEFA and Fifa being corrupt, money grabbing and unfit to regulate the game.

Not to mention  those that run the PL and Fa are far from perfect. None of them take racism seriously enough. None of them put the interest of the game above lining their own pockets. This pressure should continue with game rule makers. Not petty club issues.

[terraloon]

18 minutes ago, coco said:

All the debts come from overspending on fees and wages for players, gambling money and piling up debt under the guise of investment. Those owners should bear the cost of their gambling debts. Any other clubs with debts from bad business decisions deserve to go under, and the fans that failed to turn up and support them will lose their club, that's life. Football clubs lower down have to be viable economically. My local club survives well, playing local lads in front of 100-200 fans, decent bar with dance floor, everyone loves the club, no reason why others cannot do the same.

Playing in front of 100-200 suggests you are talking about tier 8 or 9 . At that level you are way outside the level where players are contracted at most players are getting paid or should I say receiving expenses. 
Once you get past tier 7 it’s rare to find football clubs that aren’t already run as members clubs. 
 

[coco]

33 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Playing in front of 100-200 suggests you are talking about tier 8 or 9 . At that level you are way outside the level where players are contracted at most players are getting paid or should I say receiving expenses. 
Once you get past tier 7 it’s rare to find football clubs that aren’t already run as members clubs. 
 

I have to admit i don't know enough about the financial goings on of a tier 6-7 club, so i wont pretend to. I would be surprised if any of the players at that level are in it for the money, so i'm not sure where these lower clubs haemorrhage money to if its not on players.

[Munkunku]

[bluehaze]

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

To be fair I have no issue with Rangers and Celtic join the English league, we already have Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham from Wales in it.

I think the main issue would be them jumping straight in to the PL. That would be unfair to a number of clubs trying to get promoted.

That's because Wales hasn't got a professional league.

[bluehaze]

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

United fans using this moment to go after the glazers,  Liverpool fans after FSG, Arsenal fans after Kronke, Spurs fans after Enic. 

They have every right too they hated them before and the Super League was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Edited April 22, 2021 by bluehaze

[Malta Blue]

Protests planned outside the Ethiad, the Emirates and Old Trafford for this weekend matches. Am I a bit cynical or is this just a bit of jumping on our band wagon and saying stuff like we did our part and we can do it too.

Too little too late we already won the race and let us have our 5 minutes glory

[dansubrosa]

12 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

Protests planned outside the Ethiad, the Emirates and Old Trafford for this weekend matches. Am I a bit cynical or is this just a bit of jumping on our band wagon and saying stuff like we did our part and we can do it too.

Too little too late we already won the race and let us have our 5 minutes glory

Think the fans see this as a chance to get the owners out, especially Kroenke and Glaziers. City... no idea.