4 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I doubt it, he defended the club’s decision to join ESL at a fan forum.

He has been involved with Chelsea since 1991, so would expect him to understand the fans better than say Roman's men.

I would expect Roman has appointed his own execs to have his position represented so he gets a balance.

Obviously they got this wrong.

13 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

He has been involved with Chelsea since 1991, so would expect him to understand the fans better than say Roman's men.

I would expect Roman has appointed his own execs to have his position represented so he gets a balance.

Obviously they got this wrong.

I’m not sure, I don’t think Roman was that involved. I don’t think he would have bothered going out of his way on ESL, he’s not even allowed in the country still.

Bruce Buck is American, I wouldn’t be surprised if he liked the idea of football turning into a franchise like in USA. London Blue Lions!

I don’t think we were as bad as other clubs though, especially FSG and Glaziers who seemed to have really pushed for it to happen.

45 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

He has been involved with Chelsea since 1991, so would expect him to understand the fans better than say Roman's men.

I would expect Roman has appointed his own execs to have his position represented so he gets a balance.

Obviously they got this wrong.

I didn't know that he went back that far. I thought he was only involved as part of Roman's takeover from Ken Bates.

17 hours ago, Jezz said:

 

Brilliant 

This is my first post on this thread in truth I haven’t read all the comments nor do I intend to.

This is a long old post so apologies for its length

The talk of a super league without the standard promotion and relegation under the control of UEFA has been hinted at for many years and for those that know history will no doubt remember that a significant number of what was the elitist clubs in Europe refused to accept us into their number they wanted to protect their status and yes the likes I of Bayern were in that number. They all acted in their self interests.

For me this whole sh*t storm showed up so many to be spouting nothing but hypocrisy.

Lets start with Sky. They and their pundits whipped up a storm. Yet Sky have been instrumental in encouraging other sports to break from their historical governing bodies. The PDC/PDA enabled Sky to create another world championship which yes they televised. They facilitated formation of an elite Rugby League structure moving its playing season. They happily show the likes of the IPL. For me the fact that Sky announced they hadn’t been part of the conversation says a lot.
 

Them taking or trying to claim the moral high ground and talking about history and the importance of competition and  history is a joke because no matter how you look at it the PL breaking away from the FL was a break from history and tradition

Then you have two pundits both who have stolen a living from football taking massive sums from their clubs and then they moved on to sky, not because they were great pundits but because they were elite footballers. You wonder if they went through a transparent process to get their punditry jobs.

 One of those pundits who shouldn’t be near a job in TV after his antics spitting at a supporter.

The other that happily is involved in Salford and best you read how they operate.

Then you have the players  shedding crocodile tears saying it’s about supporters yet those same players are happy to force through massive contracts which in part are the reason ticket costs are so high meaning football really isn’t an affordable working mans sport any longer.I don’t blame the players for wanting big wages but they take vast sums out of football and that money has to come from somewhere 

Then the other PL clubs wanting blood yet they know in their heart of hearts that , even if you ignore Chelsea, any top league without say Liverpool or Man U would not have an ounce of credibility they know it’s the top 6 that are the main draw when it comes to the TV audiences and the appetite in Asia or the like to watch Burnley against say WBA was minimal . Their outrage was about what it was going to cost them.

We are told that these six clubs should be punished and yes I recognise they ain’t happy but under what rule should you punish them. Rules is rules after all

Sky tell us it’s rule L9 and then use wording that suits their agenda yet when you factor in that in the 20/21 season there isn’t actually a ESL competition and the fact that going forward the clubs technically only advised of their intent not an agreement to play in a a future season and even then certainly not in the 20/21 season that rule really isn’t applicable 

Heres the wording of the rule 

9.
Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member

 

The key wording is “during the season “ and in the context of the rule book it’s specific to the season 20/21. If it wasn’t season specific  there would be no need for those words

 

UEFA. They  for me are the biggest hypocrites of all they are awash with money. They talk about sporting integrity and sporting merit but what is the true basis for allowing the 4th best placed team in England or say Spain a place in the group stages ?

If qualification was based on sporting merit shouldn’t  the champions of a smaller nation say Albania or Wales  get a place in the group stages ?
 

It’s simple UEFA will get bigger sponsors and bigger TV audiences when the big boys play so no real sporting  integrity  there but the powers that be can justify it by saying that TNS in Wales make it to the group stages even though the reality is they never will get through the various qualifications hurdles that they face. UEFA don’t want any but the big clubs to qualify 

Then when you look at the proposed changes to the CL the wildcards being afforded to clubs based on their past co efficient is so heavy loaded it’s pathetic to even suggest they are going to be awarded to any club outside the big six nations is just a lie.

The saddest thing for me is that I haven’t really heard how the failed ESL would actually function. We know some of the major headlines and we know they were not good I certainly didn’t like them but had stakeholders properly engaged then it’s possible that there could have been something in it and the major objections such as no promotion or relegation been overcome  would the product have been acceptable? Alas we will never know.

But it’s back to UEFA for me who now are in a stronger position and this corrupt dysfunctional organisation will now carry on doing the things that they do badly and not addressing issues that they should.

 

Edited April 21, 20215 yr by terraloon

8 minutes ago, terraloon said:

This is my first post on this thread in truth I haven’t read all the comments nor do I intend to.

This is a long old post so apologies for its length

The talk of a super league without the standard promotion and relegation under the control of UEFA has been hinted at for many years and for those that know history will no doubt remember that a significant number of what was the elitist clubs in Europe refused to accept us into their number they wanted to protect their status and yes the likes I of Bayern were in that number. They all acted in their self interests.

For me this whole sh*t storm showed up so many to be spouting nothing but hypocrisy.

Lets start with Sky. They and their pundits whipped up a storm. Yet Sky have been instrumental in encouraging other sports to break from their historical governing bodies. The PDC/PDA enabled Sky to create another world championship which yes they televised. They facilitated formation of an elite Rugby League structure moving its playing season. They happily show the likes of the IPL. For me the fact that Sky announced they hadn’t been part of the conversation says a lot.
 

Them taking or trying to claim the moral high ground and talking about history and the importance of competition and  history is a joke because no matter how you look at it the PL breaking away from the FL was a break from history and tradition

Then you have two pundits both who have stolen a living from football taking massive sums from their clubs and then they moved on to sky, not because they were great pundits but because they were elite footballers. You wonder if they went through a transparent process to get their punditry jobs.

 One of those pundits who shouldn’t be near a job in TV after his antics spitting at a supporter.

The other that happily is involved in Salford and best you read how they operate.

Then you have the players  shedding crocodile tears saying it’s about supporters yet those same players are happy to force through massive contracts which in part are the reason ticket costs are so high meaning football really isn’t an affordable working mans sport any longer.I don’t blame the players for wanting big wages but they take vast sums out of football and that money has to come from somewhere 

Then the other PL clubs wanting blood yet they know in their heart of hearts that , even if you ignore Chelsea, any top league without say Liverpool or Man U would not have an ounce of credibility they know it’s the top 6 that are the main draw when it comes to the TV audiences and the appetite in Asia or the like to watch Burnley against say WBA was minimal . Their outrage was about what it was going to cost them.

We are told that these six clubs should be punished and yes I recognise they ain’t happy but under what rule should you punish them. Rules is rules after all

Sky tell us it’s rule L9 and then use wording that suits their agenda yet when you factor in that in the 20/21 season there isn’t actually a ESL competition and the fact that going forward the clubs technically only advised of their intent not an agreement to play in a a future season and even then certainly not in the 20/21 season that rule really isn’t applicable 

Heres the wording of the rule 

9.
Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member

 

The key wording is “during the season “ and in the context of the rule book it’s specific to the season 20/21. If it wasn’t season specific  there would be no need for those words

 

UEFA. They  for me are the biggest hypocrites of all they are awash with money. They talk about sporting integrity and sporting merit but what is the true basis for allowing the 4th best placed team in England or say Spain a place in the group stages ?

If qualification was based on sporting merit shouldn’t  the champions of a smaller nation say Albania or Wales  get a place in the group stages ?
 

It’s simple UEFA will get bigger sponsors and bigger TV audiences when the big boys play so no real sporting  integrity  there but the powers that be can justify it by saying that TNS in Wales make it to the group stages even though the reality is they never will get through the various qualifications hurdles that they face. UEFA don’t want any but the big clubs to qualify 

Then when you look at the proposed changes to the CL the wildcards being afforded to clubs based on their past co efficient is so heavy loaded it’s pathetic to even suggest they are going to be awarded to any club outside the big six nations is just a lie.

The saddest thing for me is that I haven’t really heard how the failed ESL would actually function. We know some of the major headlines and we know they were not good I certainly didn’t like them but had stakeholders properly engaged then it’s possible that there could have been something in it and the major objections such as no promotion or relegation been overcome  would the product have been acceptable? Alas we will never know.

But it’s back to UEFA for me who now are in a stronger position and this corrupt dysfunctional organisation will now carry on doing the things that they do badly and not addressing issues that they should.

 

I agree about some of the hypocrisy.  However the ESL was dreamt up by some of the owners who are behind the worst that we see in football right now - Glazers, Agnelli, Perez etc. The decision to breakaway was made entirely to line their pockets further and our board was stupid to follow their greedy lead.

If one potentially positive thing has come out of this it is that UEFA no longer trusts this group of big clubs. Supposedly they are now looking to change their proposal for the new 36 team group stage. Before they were planning to give 2 spots to teams with history in the competition that failed to qualify by fair means (via coefficient). It seems as though 1 of the punishments to come out of this is that those spots may now go to the winners of smaller leagues that may otherwise not qualify. I hope that is the case. 

@terraloon

You have articulated something I thought too, none of the ESL have broken any rules this season.

Unless there are rules that they can vote on a punishment for 'unprofessional conduct' I don;t think they can legally take any action as it was a proposal that had not been put into effect.

If they do, the big six theoretically could take legal action over breaking contracts.  

12 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I agree about some of the hypocrisy.  However the ESL was dreamt up by some of the owners who are behind the worst that we see in football right now - Glazers, Agnelli, Perez etc. The decision to breakaway was made entirely to line their pockets further and our board was stupid to follow their greedy lead.

If one potentially positive thing has come out of this it is that UEFA no longer trusts this group of big clubs. Supposedly they are now looking to change their proposal for the new 36 team group stage. Before they were planning to give 2 spots to teams with history in the competition that failed to qualify by fair means (via coefficient). It seems as though 1 of the punishments to come out of this is that those spots may now go to the winners of smaller leagues that may otherwise not qualify. I hope that is the case. 

It was but so too was the PL.

Billionaires that “ invest “ in business rarely go into it with the intention of losing money. The irony is that Perez who was a major player in all this isn’t an owner he is the president of a club. His motivation may be about monetary gain for Real but not sure despite the contempt that he actually would have lined his own pockets.

RA has been a great owner  for Chelsea he has injected vast sums which of course has seen massive growth at Chelsea and we all have loved the ride but Chelsea be under no illusion the value of Chelsea is way above the money he has put in.

As for UEFA I actually think it could well go the opposite way. I don’t think that the timing the ESL announcement the day before UEFAs  own announcement was coincidental and the fact that the clubs even got to this stage was probably a shot across the bows and UEFA will know the big clubs got it wrong this time but when they go next time, which they will, then the objections that came to the fore will certainly be addressed

I can't stress enough how it's frustrating me that the same energy isn't being shown elsewhere. This shows just what powers fans have but it will always be shown too sparingly.

Why not strike while the iron is hot and protest against UEFA's plans for revamped CL that gives two places based on history? Why not protest about the flawed reward system in this country that see's the basement side get £180m (TV deals and parachute payments) but the winner of the Carabao Cup get a mere 100k? Why not protest about the fact human beings have died working on stadia for the next world cup? Is it because Gary Neville isnt telling us too? 

Make no mistake UEFA's revamped plan is going to turn into a super league in all but name, they're just a little bit smarter and will drip feed it bit by bit, the very few who see through it won't be able to do anything because not enough people will care because they've "got their game back".

I am on a group with football fans on Facebook there's about 30 for us, for two days 10 in the group were raging about the ESL and saying all the things everyone else was saying, this morning I make a similar post to this about the Uefa plan and out of those 10 only one reacted while the others seen and ignored it, so it begs the question, were the other 9 really that outraged about the super league or were they doing it for likes and/or to fit in?

And the most sickening thing about this is that Sky and Uefa have used this to basically cement a status as untouchable.

These protests against the ESL are all well and good, but unless we keep up the same energy for UEFA's plans all we're doing is basically signing up for the same thing just a different organization and a little bit more of a subtal approach.

59 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Brilliant 

The National Football Museum have track the guy down on Twitter in an attempt to get that sign donated. 

Argo for me it comes back to hypocrisy.

Your example of the World Cup is a classic. 

Bamford talked on Monday about the hypocrisy regarding racism how right he was.

I have to be honest and say I am not 100% against a super league concept I did have concerns as to how clubs qualify initially and get relegated or promoted but why so many lined up behind Sky’s and UEFAs objections amazed me .

Had say the 14 other PL clubs engaged constructively and got the six onside then that block vote on the ESL board may well have dealt with that issue but no rather than at least engage they excluded.

The potential massive increase in solidarity payments, the ability of the clubs to use their own media platforms to broadcast 4 home games a season etc etc all needed to be explored but no. The long term aims to hold global tournaments were interesting but not explored.

The irony in all this is the likes of Neville and Linekear so outspoken when it came to Brexit and the need to engage and integrate even more with European became classic little Englanders 

 

Apologies if already posted.

https://www.football365.com/news/abramovich-furious-chelsea-super-league-saga

Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich is reportedly “furious” at how the Super League saga played out.

The Blues were among six Premier League clubs to sign up for the breakaway competition on Sunday, before widespread criticism (and perhaps the offer of some UEFA cash) led to all six withdrawing on Tuesday evening.

Protests at Stamford Bridge ahead of the 0-0 draw with Brighton meant kick-off had to be delayed as Petr Cech stepped in to appeal to the angry masses.

Chelsea are said to have decided to pull out of the competition ahead of the protests but Abramovich is said to be unhappy at the club’s decision to enter the competition and how the whole fiasco played out.

The Russian owner had trusted chairman Bruce Buck’s judgement that joining the Super League was in the club’s best long-term interest and is now ‘furious’ as he felt ‘blindsided’ by fans’ true feelings amid concerns for his reputation and legacy.

Chelsea released a statement late on Tuesday night saying: “As reported earlier this evening, Chelsea Football Club can confirm that it has begun the formal procedures for withdrawal from the group developing plans for a European Super League.

“Having joined the group late last week, we have now had time to consider the matter fully and have decided that our continued participation in these plans would not be in the best interests of the Club, our supporters or the wider football community.”

The Chelsea players are said to be relieved by the U-turn, while the Chelsea Supporters’ Trust called for the heads of complicit board members.

Their statement read: “It has been confirmed that CFC is officially withdrawing their intention to join the European Super League.

“Whilst this is a huge win for supporters worldwide, our fight to secure the proper future of the club will continue.

“The CST is appalled with the tone and insincerity of the statement issued by CFC today. We request a full and in-depth explanation as to why the board took the decision to turn their back on the European competition and for CFC to explain why they signed up to the Super League without prior consultation with their loyal supporters.

“We are disappointed that an apology has not been included in the statement.

“The legacy of our club was put at risk for what appears to have been solely for financial gain.

“The CST presently have little or no confidence in our current leadership at board level.

“On Monday [club chairman] Bruce Buck extensively defended CFC’s plan to remain in the Super League at a fan’s forum meeting.

“Buck alongside [CEO] Guy Laurence appears to have given no consideration towards the loyal supporters, so their positions would seem untenable moving forward.”

5 hours ago, Zeta said:

Apparently from the protests yesterday,

Good to know you got there after all.

29 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Argo for me it comes back to hypocrisy.

Your example of the World Cup is a classic. 

Bamford talked on Monday about the hypocrisy regarding racism how right he was.

I have to be honest and say I am not 100% against a super league concept I did have concerns as to how clubs qualify initially and get relegated or promoted but why so many lined up behind Sky’s and UEFAs objections amazed me .

Had say the 14 other PL clubs engaged constructively and got the six onside then that block vote on the ESL board may well have dealt with that issue but no rather than at least engage they excluded.

The potential massive increase in solidarity payments, the ability of the clubs to use their own media platforms to broadcast 4 home games a season etc etc all needed to be explored but no. The long term aims to hold global tournaments were interesting but not explored.

The irony in all this is the likes of Neville and Linekear so outspoken when it came to Brexit and the need to engage and integrate even more with European became classic little Englanders 

 

I am not going to comment on Sky or UEFA as I really don't care what they think. However just because the ESL went behind UEFA's back did not make it a good thing. These 12 clubs decided in effect that they were more important than all the others and went ahead with a plan to guarantee they got the biggest slice of the money for decades to come. Sheer arrogance. They did this without consulting any fans, and by the sound of things the players and coaches too. I am still angry that the club I have supported for many decades was part of this greedy breakaway plan. Are there issues elsewhere e.g. player's wages, dominance of big clubs in domestic leagues? Absolutely. But had we gone into this closed club of an invitational tournament many long standing fans (myself included) would be done with the club.

Sorry you didn't get the new league that you were hoping for. But I think most fans agree that the set up we have now is still way better than the ESL. At least clubs have a chance to make it into European competition if they do well, and those that fail are relegated, or miss out on Europe.

14 minutes ago, Boyne said:

“The CST is appalled with the tone and insincerity of the statement issued by CFC today.

“We are disappointed that an apology has not been included in the statement.

“Buck alongside [CEO] Guy Laurence appears to have given no consideration towards the loyal supporters, so their positions would seem untenable moving forward.”

Strongly agree with this ...

13 minutes ago, Upsetter said:

Good to know you got there after all.

You calling me ginger, buddy? I won't take that lying down.

2 minutes ago, Zeta said:

You calling me ginger, buddy? I won't take that lying down.

You mean that’s not you in the background? My mistake.

8 hours ago, Argo said:

I can't stress enough how it's frustrating me that the same energy isn't being shown elsewhere. This shows just what powers fans have but it will always be shown too sparingly.

Why not strike while the iron is hot and protest against UEFA's plans for revamped CL that gives two places based on history? Why not protest about the flawed reward system in this country that see's the basement side get £180m (TV deals and parachute payments) but the winner of the Carabao Cup get a mere 100k? Why not protest about the fact human beings have died working on stadia for the next world cup? Is it because Gary Neville isnt telling us too? 

Make no mistake UEFA's revamped plan is going to turn into a super league in all but name, they're just a little bit smarter and will drip feed it bit by bit, the very few who see through it won't be able to do anything because not enough people will care because they've "got their game back".

I am on a group with football fans on Facebook there's about 30 for us, for two days 10 in the group were raging about the ESL and saying all the things everyone else was saying, this morning I make a similar post to this about the Uefa plan and out of those 10 only one reacted while the others seen and ignored it, so it begs the question, were the other 9 really that outraged about the super league or were they doing it for likes and/or to fit in?

And the most sickening thing about this is that Sky and Uefa have used this to basically cement a status as untouchable.

These protests against the ESL are all well and good, but unless we keep up the same energy for UEFA's plans all we're doing is basically signing up for the same thing just a different organization and a little bit more of a subtal approach.

 

Now that this proposal is crushed, yes the same level of attention and action should be directed at FIFA, UEFA, the FA and Premier league, I don't think there would be many, if any on here that would disagree.

What frustrated me over the last 2 days was how some people on here and on the radio, tv etc seemed more interested in saying "what about uefa, they're just as bad" "linaker works for BT, what a hypocrite" than actually being against this so called "super league", This proposal absolutely is anti sporting and would do probably irreversible damage! I honestly believe this had to be put down loudly and quickly while there was enough passion and energy for it to matter, I didn't care where that opposition came from really, ffs I'm glad even boris johnson spoke against it and I absolutely hate the guy and in this he's yet again proven a hypocrite as well! The way many (such as Gary Neville) in the media spoke with such passion and straight talking whilst for once echoing exactly what many of us felt, was, in my opinion, a big factor in people being so quickly up in arms first on social media, radio, tv etc before the protest outside the Bridge. I'd love it if they'd now do the same thing about UEFA, FIFA etc etc and there is hypocrisy that they haven't but they have absolutely done the right thing here, in a situation that needed immediate action and I don't think that should be taken away from them. Getting the same level of attention on UEFA and domestic organisations SHOULD definitely be the focus now.

Overall, given how quickly and decisively this was put down, I do think people should be a bit more encouraged that action could be taken for the benefit of the game going forward, the owners have been shown they are not all poweful, fans do have a voice that we can force clubs and the media to listen to and that ex and current players still feel much the same as we do about the game! Some seem more annoyed that a temporary status quo has been achieved compared to something that would have been, at best, far worse than what we have now, and at worst, potentially the death of this game as an actual competative sport, and I don't think that is an over the top statement.

I've got a distinct feeling, The Government would like to see the PL run like the Bundesliga, Fan owned, well at least 51%, all that European Kudos bestowed on Bayern ,Dortmund and PSG, we could of had that if we'd waited, surely Roman knew that us fans wouldn't accept this sham of a breakaway, before that half arsed explanation is supposed to appease us, come on Roman A

12 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I am not going to comment on Sky or UEFA as I really don't care what they think. However just because the ESL went behind UEFA's back did not make it a good thing. These 12 clubs decided in effect that they were more important than all the others and went ahead with a plan to guarantee they got the biggest slice of the money for decades to come. Sheer arrogance. They did this without consulting any fans, and by the sound of things the players and coaches too. I am still angry that the club I have supported for many decades was part of this greedy breakaway plan. Are there issues elsewhere e.g. player's wages, dominance of big clubs in domestic leagues? Absolutely. But had we gone into this closed club of an invitational tournament many long standing fans (myself included) would be done with the club.

Sorry you didn't get the new league that you were hoping for. But I think most fans agree that the set up we have now is still way better than the ESL. At least clubs have a chance to make it into European competition if they do well, and those that fail are relegated, or miss out on Europe.

You have completely mis interpreted what I have said in terms of it being a league that I wanted.

 

Simply put I am not blinkered to new ideas, new process or put another change. In my working life I have learnt time after time you take look at what is being suggested evaluate and discuss because more often than not some of the most stupid ideas have little gems hidden within. But on this issue there hasn’t been open discussion. 
 

Was it a greedy break away plan yes it probably was but so too was the PL, so to was the CL was there fan engagement on these changes well no there wasn’t .

I believe you  mis my point regarding the solidarity uplift do you know what that was all about ? I don’t have a clue what was included but the uplift from UEFAs plans was significant how was it going to be achieved we have no idea 

The set up we have know is possibly better that the ESL plans but the new version of the CL based on a Swiss league is madness and will involve 100 more CL matches . A 32 club league where you play 5 games and 5 away with the top 8 going forward to the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing off against each other. Payments working out less than the current iteration really was always going to wow the bigger clubs wasn’t it.

 

Jack if the issue which alone justifies rejection of the ESL was about the competitive nature of the league which if it was a red line then of course it was a none goer but was it ? We all assuming  it was but was it just an opening gambit and was there room to manoeuvre and introduce that competing element. We will never know. 
As for UEFA of course they have to be mentioned because under their stewardship the situation where a group of the biggest clubs, not all I grant you, but a group of the very biggest clearly don’t feel they are being treated fairly and note the word fairly not equally they have grievances which they clearly don’t think are being listened to and one of those was that under the new CL version they will be asked to play more games 

Edited April 21, 20215 yr by terraloon

29 minutes ago, terraloon said:

You have completely mis interpreted what I have said in terms of it being a league that I wanted.

 

Simply put I am not blinkered to new ideas, new process or put another change. In my working life I have learnt time after time you take look at what is being suggested evaluate and discuss because more often than not some of the most stupid ideas have little gems hidden within. But on this issue there hasn’t been open discussion. 
 

Was it a greedy break away plan yes it probably was but so too was the PL, so to was the CL was there fan engagement on these changes well no there wasn’t .

I believe you  mis my point regarding the solidarity uplift do you know what that was all about ? I don’t have a clue what was included but the uplift from UEFAs plans was significant how was it going to be achieved we have no idea 

The set up we have know is possibly better that the ESL plans but the new version of the CL based on a Swiss league is madness and will involve 100 more CL matches . A 32 club league where you play 5 games and 5 away with the top 8 going forward to the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing off against each other. Payments working out less than the current iteration really was always going to wow the bigger clubs wasn’t it.

 

Very good point terraloon.

The proposed solidarity payment uplift is one of the most intriguing things in the whole ESL story, and it has gone completely under most people's radar. From what I have read, (and if the figures quoted are true), it would have roughly tripled what UEFA currently commit to the trickle down funding of grass roots football? That hardly fits with the image painted of the ESL clubs only being in it to line their own pockets.

We should wait to see if UEFA have any comment to make on this. Knowing UEFA it might be a long wait though.

 

37 minutes ago, terraloon said:

You have completely mis interpreted what I have said in terms of it being a league that I wanted.

 

Simply put I am not blinkered to new ideas, new process or put another change. In my working life I have learnt time after time you take look at what is being suggested evaluate and discuss because more often than not some of the most stupid ideas have little gems hidden within. But on this issue there hasn’t been open discussion. 
 

Was it a greedy break away plan yes it probably was but so too was the PL, so to was the CL was there fan engagement on these changes well no there wasn’t .

I believe you  mis my point regarding the solidarity uplift do you know what that was all about ? I don’t have a clue what was included but the uplift from UEFAs plans was significant how was it going to be achieved we have no idea 

The set up we have know is possibly better that the ESL plans but the new version of the CL based on a Swiss league is madness and will involve 100 more CL matches . A 32 club league where you play 5 games and 5 away with the top 8 going forward to the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing off against each other. Payments working out less than the current iteration really was always going to wow the bigger clubs wasn’t it.

 

But in this case there was no real proposal. They just announced that they had already signed the contract to move ahead with the plans, whether we liked it or not and starting next season. If they had at least presented a formal proposal with all the details perhaps it could have been scrutinized in a bit more detail. I don't like UEFA's proposals either but they are a few years away and may yet be open to some fine tuning based on feedback.

Not to mention the idea of thinking there might be some good in this plan based on those involved is like believing Bernie Madoff would get you your money if you were just patient 😉

8 hours ago, terraloon said:

Jack if the issue which alone justifies rejection of the ESL was about the competitive nature of the league which if it was a red line then of course it was a none goer but was it ? We all assuming  it was but was it just an opening gambit and was there room to manoeuvre and introduce that competing element. We will never know. 
As for UEFA of course they have to be mentioned because under their stewardship the situation where a group of the biggest clubs, not all I grant you, but a group of the very biggest clearly don’t feel they are being treated fairly and note the word fairly not equally they have grievances which they clearly don’t think are being listened to and one of those was that under the new CL version they will be asked to play more games 

I have absolutely zero faith that these greedy clubs would do anything to increase competition as there can be no doubt whatsoever their motivation is profit and competition would jeopordise their priorities. Note specifically "profit", not financial stability as they'll try to claim, just pure greed and excess.

If these same clubs believe they're not being treated fairly then some of the more draconian punishments being banded about should be considered as means of a reality check! These are the most privileged clubs in the game, rules both on the pitch and off it are bent in their favour, fixtures are often moved around for them, they hoover up youth players from "smaller" clubs and leave them by the wayside, they force through moves for players that clubs don't want or need to sell, land is forcibly purchased from normal people and small businesses to allow their stadium expansions, fans pay utterly ludicrous prices for everything from a beer, to a ticket or a shirt etc etc, they have europe's premier competition already rigged to allow as many of them to be squeezed in at the expense of champions from Scandinavia, central, easter southern europe, the two big Spanish clubs already have their league tailored far beyond anything reasonable to suit their finances at the expense of every other club yet they still rack up mammoth debts. There are far more examples of their privilege but that'll do, at least for now.

The new CL format is indeed utter sh*te but I'm not letting them point the finger there, If they don't like it then protest as passionately, loudly and in the same unified manner that fans up and down this country did over the last two days to stop their greedy, cynical and underhand coup.

16 hours ago, coombsie said:

So what is the general opinion on what the fall out from the ESL participation is likely to be?   I think that the Owners and maybe by association, the Board of the Clubs should be penalised. HEAVY fines and the possibility of having their "Fit and Proper Person" registrations rescinded or put on probation which if withdrawn would effectively force them to sell.

The Clubs themselves should escape any punishment as the Manager, coaches, players etc. had no part in this fiasco.  So hurting them with points deductions or banning them from competitions is not fair. In fact it was probably the intervention of Henderson, Guardiola and Rashford that made their own clubs see sense, at Chelsea it is the fans that made the Club see reason.

There WILL be further sanctions, I just wonder what form they may take?

How do you punish owners though? 

Any corporation is setup so the owner is free from liability