6 hours ago, Argo said:

 

Take Firmino out of that Liverpool side, replace him with a poacher and all of a sudden Mane/Salah and Robertson/Trent are a lot more restricted in their tactical possibilities and as a consequence a hell of a lot more easier to cope with for the opposition. Same story with us since ditching the F9/fluid system (anyone thinking James and Chilwell returning will solve this are in for a nasty surprise).

 

Can't agree no more. Jota came and pretty much play like a poacher and Pool just blew up. Mane struggle to score, Salah struggle to score, trent suddenly cannot pass. 

🤣🤣🤣

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Bob stark

Just now, Gol15 said:

That's the main issue for us, our first choice full-back are injured and Lukaku simpy doesn't play as a false 9.

Tuchel could clearly see that the teams we're chasing, meaning Man City and Liverpool play that fluid style without having a classical centre-forward. Yet look at the decisions he made, he sells Tammy, benches Werner and doesn't build the team around Havertz that won him the CL, all in order to get Lukaku, with the notion that he would provide some extra tactical option?

What a tragic example of how 1 move can make several players worse, sure Havertz wasn't elite but he has so much potential and even if Werner missed a lot of chances we were a really good pressing team with him and Mount in the lineup. Now all that is gone and for what?? 

I was screaming for us to wait for a suitable tactical fit to emerge even if it was at the expense of a title challenge this season and like magic Diaz and Adeyemi who would both suit our (Lukaku less) system to the ground have had major breakthrough seasons.

Infuriating doesn't even begin to cover it, it's the equivalent of if we signed a washed up Rooney in 2013 and therefore blocking the pathway to Diego Costa.

22 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Can't agree no more. Jota came and pretty much play like a poacher and Pool just blew up. Mane struggle to score, Salah struggle to score, trent suddenly cannot pass. 

🤣🤣🤣

Well they kind of did. From 98 and 99 point season's to needing their keeper to score to prevent a season of Thursday night football. Mane also looked like the United version of Alexis Sanchez last season.  

This season they're back in a title charge despite the fact Firmino hasn't scored once against a team outside the relegation zone. 

Edit: I would say Jota is a lot more than a traditional poacher any way but each to their own.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Argo

13 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Can't agree no more. Jota came and pretty much play like a poacher and Pool just blew up. Mane struggle to score, Salah struggle to score, trent suddenly cannot pass. 

🤣🤣🤣

Jota is a totally different profile than Lukaku. If anything Liverpool play fluid like Man City with several players making runs when they play with Jota and Salah, last season their attack worked just as well, they were struggling because they lost their defenders and now they're back so they don't lose as many games but their attack bailed them out last season so it's not like they blew up because of Jota, they just got Van Dijk back, though they do have the top scorers in the league.

Those seven touches (five if you take away the offside and the kickoff!) were the lowest in the entire history of the Premier League and beyond. Whichever way you care to look at it, it’s a shameful, damning statistic, an indefensible testimony to Lukaku’s sheer ineptitude and ineffectiveness.

If he wants the ball, let him get it, let him create space for himself and his teammates. If he wants to be on the end of a pass, let him make an intelligent run, or at the very least stop hiding behind defenders waving his arms around. And so on. 

Oh and while he’s at it, he needs to go on a f**king diet. As it is, our Romelu isn’t even making a pretence of justifying his presence in the starting lineup, let alone that ridiculous price tag and the obscene wages that accompany it.

It was so poor we need to consider if TT told him to stay with the CBs to make sure they did not compress the pitch.

I am hoping it was miscommunication rather than sabotage.

 

2 hours ago, Upsetter said:

Those seven touches (five if you take away the offside and the kickoff!) were the lowest in the entire history of the Premier League and beyond. Whichever way you care to look at it, it’s a shameful, damning statistic, an indefensible testimony to Lukaku’s sheer ineptitude and ineffectiveness.

If he wants the ball, let him get it, let him create space for himself and his teammates. If he wants to be on the end of a pass, let him make an intelligent run, or at the very least stop hiding behind defenders waving his arms around. And so on. 

Oh and while he’s at it, he needs to go on a f**king diet. As it is, our Romelu isn’t even making a pretence of justifying his presence in the starting lineup, let alone that ridiculous price tag and the obscene wages that accompany it.

I will add one more telling statistic from the game: Crystal Palace 0 - Chelsea 1 

Bad game from Lukaku, granted but we won. Move on. 

13 minutes ago, evissy said:

I will add one more telling statistic from the game: Crystal Palace 0 - Chelsea 1 

Bad game from Lukaku, granted but we won. Move on. 

Yep, thanks to a guy he was pining his incompetence on a few weeks ago.

32 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yep, thanks to a guy he was pining his incompetence on a few weeks ago.

Kinda arguing against your own point there mate, given most of us felt that way about Ziyech and we continue to about Lukaku. Just shows we can be wrong.

this Jurno tends to follow Chelsea a lot. One for those saying our players ignore the movement of Rom.

 

 

47 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Kinda arguing against your own point there mate, given most of us felt that way about Ziyech and we continue to about Lukaku. Just shows we can be wrong.

I never gave up on Ziyech and without meaning to gloat said as much after the City game.

I have given up on Pulisic though but not even he is anything close to the sheer net negative Lukaku brings to the table. For all his faults he does has attributes than can be brought to the table especially when players around him are performing (for example sticking him at false 9 vs Juve to have him running around while James and Callum did the damage).

1 minute ago, Argo said:

I never gave up on Ziyech and without meaning to gloat said as much after the City game.

I have given up on Pulisic though but not even he is anything close to the sheer net negative Lukaku brings to the table. For all his faults he does has attributes than can be brought to the table especially when players around him are performing (for example sticking him at false 9 vs Juve to have him running around while James and Callum did the damage).

Well Pulisic was awful against Palace but was that because he is simply useless now and should be given up on or it is cause TT played him in the wrong position?

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

this Jurno tends to follow Chelsea a lot. One for those saying our players ignore the movement of Rom.

 

 

Rudi was on it with the long passes but does he really expect a CB to be able to make those passes? If not pinpoint then you risk giving it to the keeper

4 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

Rudi was on it with the long passes but does he really expect a CB to be able to make those passes? If not pinpoint then you risk giving it to the keeper

If it was Chalobah or AC then no absolutely not. However could Rudiger, who some compared both his passing and shooting to David Luiz recently? Yes he could have delivered that ball, so could Silva or Dave imo. Would be a risk and you are just as likely to hit the ball to hard and send it to the keeper or too weak and the defender cuts it out. 

Either way of you are going to lose the ball better in and around their box.

Am not say we should be looking for such a ball everytime, but we never try that ball. Not specifically a Rom thing either Timo only ever got balls like that against Pool or City.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Kinda arguing against your own point there mate, given most of us felt that way about Ziyech and we continue to about Lukaku. Just shows we can be wrong.

Steady on cursing Hakinm, he only has a couple of good games under his belt.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

this Jurno tends to follow Chelsea a lot. One for those saying our players ignore the movement of Rom.

The trajectory off that pass to Lukaku is straight out of Roy of the Rovers.

34 minutes ago, coco said:

The trajectory off that pass to Lukaku is straight out of Roy of the Rovers.

Ah now now Cesc could land that ball 😉

37 minutes ago, coco said:

Steady on cursing Hakinm, he only has a couple of good games under his belt.

Fair point. We need a forward to believe in though lol.

Well what Lukaku should do is come short into the space behind the referee, receive the ball, pass it through to the player on the left (Pulisic?) and immediately run into the box to receive the return ball for a tap-in chance. What in the world is Rudiger supposed to do with that ball over the top? If he plays it sharp the goal keeper takes it. If he plays it soft any of the four defenders surrounding Lukaku takes it. Then there is the possibility of offside, too.

21 minutes ago, ElTerrible said:

Well what Lukaku should do is come short into the space behind the referee, receive the ball, pass it through to the player on the left (Pulisic?) and immediately run into the box to receive the return ball for a tap-in chance. What in the world is Rudiger supposed to do with that ball over the top? If he plays it sharp the goal keeper takes it. If he plays it soft any of the four defenders surrounding Lukaku takes it. Then there is the possibility of offside, too.

God that is beyond awful tactical awareness.

As you said he could/should have gone into the space in behind the referee then layed it on to Pulisic (he may or may not have missed but Rom would have done his bit) but instead he's positioned himself in between three Palace defenders and asked for a next to impossible ball over the top (which even if he somehow got a yard on those players and Rudi put it neatly into the sweet spot Guita would still be favourite to sweep up and clear the danger).

Absolute clown.

Edited February 22, 20224 yr by Argo

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

God that is beyond awful tactical awareness.

As you said he could/should have gone into the space in behind the referee then layed it on to Pulisic (he may or may not have missed but Rom would have done his bit) but instead he's positioned himself in between three Palace defenders and asked for a next to impossible ball over the top (which even if he somehow got a yard on those players and Rudi put it neatly into the sweet spot Guita would still be favourite to sweep up and clear the danger).

Absolute clown.

Ah now now Argo Toni denied us the small possibility of the great entertainment that would have been the Palace keeper coming flying out and either knocking Rom out with a punch clearance or perhaps even a...

You know someone mentioned earlier than perhaps Haaland may have been born in the wrong Era. Not sure on that, guess we will see.

Speaking hypothetically along those lines though imagine if we could have a late 20s Eidur Gudjohnson as our main forward now? Eidur  had a little bit of everything in his game but the biggest were his vision and footballing intelligence.

What an upgrade he would be, and a perfect fit for TT and his system imo.

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

this Jurno tends to follow Chelsea a lot. One for those saying our players ignore the movement of Rom.

 

 

It's hilarious that he thinks Rudiger, a f**king CB, should be picking Lukaku out from there. Even quality midfielders would struggle to hit that pass perfectly into the strikers path. The pass would have to be spot on with zero room for error. If he overhits it by a tiny amount, it's straight into the arms of the keeper. You're also counting on the defenders being caught off guard, they could easily read this pass and push up to catch Lukaku offside or step in to intercept the play. 

Also, can Lukaku even be counted on to bring that ball down and get a shot away? We all know his touch is terrible and he turns like a tank. So even if Rudiger pulls off a miracle pass, it's more than likely that Lukaku's attempt to bring the ball under control, turn and then get a shot away would result in him turning into Bambi on ice, allowing the defender to get back and cut out any danger.

I am all for us trying riskier passes, but this example is not a good one to use in Lukaku's defence. 

MARTIN SAMUEL: Romelu Lukaku is letting down his team-mates, not the other way round

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10536303/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Romelu-Lukaku-letting-Chelsea-team-mates-down.html

Romelu Lukaku is starring in a remake of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers. It’s called seven touches for 97 million quid. Just don’t expect a long run.

Lukaku’s involvement for Chelsea at Crystal Palace on Saturday was the most ineffectual since records began. As this was 19 years ago, that’s a pretty lousy game. By half-time, Lukaku had touched the ball once, apart from the obligatory short pass at kick-off. In the second half, he touched it five more times.

Not once did he get on the ball in Palace’s area, and one of his seven interventions was as a defender just outside Chelsea’s six-yard box.

All but one of Lukaku’s touches were nearer the centre circle than the penalty area D and he did not make contact any nearer than 25 yards from goal and then only once. It was pretty much the epitome of uselessness.

Yet because Match of the Day is close to a retired strikers’ club — Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Dion Dublin — he was indulged. ‘When I played, if I wasn’t getting much of the ball, if I wasn’t getting service, I would be hammering people,’ said Lineker. ‘If you’re not going to play to your forward’s strengths, it’s very frustrating,’ added Shearer.

That’s too easy, blame the supply line. Chelsea are not short of creatives, not short of ideas. Imagine Harry Kane in Chelsea’s team, imagine Mo Salah as he is now. Imagine, even, Emmanuel Dennis or Michail Antonio.

 

Last season, Thomas Tuchel often had Timo Werner up front, who has been nobody’s idea of a successful striker since coming to English football — yet they did not look as dysfunctional as they have with Lukaku this season.

That’s because, for all his faults, Werner moves. He makes runs, he commits defenders, he drags them about. The supporters love him for it. For all the frustration there is no great anger at Werner because his work rate is achingly obvious. God loves a trier and so does the Shed End.

Werner scored three goals for Chelsea under Tuchel last season, but of the 24 matches in which he featured, Chelsea won 16 and drew five.

Why? Because if the striker is moving, space opens up for others. Lukaku is failing his team-mates, not the other way around. He mopes. He sulks. He doesn’t think Chelsea’s style suits him and he’s damned if he’s going to accommodate another game, bar his own.

At Selhurst Park he didn’t seek involvement, he didn’t engage. Chelsea won despite their striker, not because of him. And for that money, he is expected to be a catalyst.

Tuchel made a strange excuse for Lukaku yesterday, saying that strikers have often struggled at Chelsea, but that isn’t strictly true. Didier Drogba didn’t and nor did Diego Costa. Nicolas Anelka was Premier League top goalscorer in 2008-09, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink in 2000-01.

This century only Arsenal have had the leading league goalscorer more times than Chelsea. The expensive disappointments — Andriy Shevchenko, Fernando Torres, Alvaro Morata — do not tell the whole story and, anyway, have nothing to do with Lukaku’s malaise. This is not a self- fulfilling prophecy.

Where does this end? Gone. Roman Abramovich does not tolerate passengers and Chelsea cannot afford them. They have a relatively comfortable Champions League last-16 first leg against Lille tonight but, as Saturday’s match showed, nothing ever gets easier with 10 men.

And that’s what Chelsea look like at the moment: 10, plus Lukaku. Compare their goal threat to that of Liverpool, who they meet at Wembley on Sunday. Tuchel is keeping Chelsea on course for the Champions League, but this is a season that could quickly unravel.

Their next league games are Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich, Brentford, Southampton and Leeds, which should cement their Champions League place for next season. But if it does not, they close with a sequence of matches against clubs who could have everything to play for, including West Ham, Wolves and Manchester United.

It will be argued Tuchel needs to make Lukaku work, but it is the player who must get cracking.

Lukaku may not care to spend a second season at Chelsea. On this showing, it’s just as well.

Edited February 22, 20224 yr by abramovich

8 hours ago, axman2526 said:

this Jurno tends to follow Chelsea a lot. One for those saying our players ignore the movement of Rom.

 

 

I know this has been said but that trajectory and arc is ridiculous, you'd need a midfielder that has the vision, technique and power to put a backspin so good that it drops just a yard ahead or directly to the striker's feet. 

You would also need a striker with the best first touch to kill the momentum and great technique to score because after that pass this striker would have to avoid a tackle from the right and the onrushing keeper. If Lukaku volleys that ball into the net, it's a Puskas award nominee for sure. 

If we had a player that can deliver and a striker that could score like that, we'd be top of the league

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

MARTIN SAMUEL: Romelu Lukaku is letting down his team-mates, not the other way round

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10536303/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Romelu-Lukaku-letting-Chelsea-team-mates-down.html

Romelu Lukaku is starring in a remake of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers. It’s called seven touches for 97 million quid. Just don’t expect a long run.

Lukaku’s involvement for Chelsea at Crystal Palace on Saturday was the most ineffectual since records began. As this was 19 years ago, that’s a pretty lousy game. By half-time, Lukaku had touched the ball once, apart from the obligatory short pass at kick-off. In the second half, he touched it five more times.

Not once did he get on the ball in Palace’s area, and one of his seven interventions was as a defender just outside Chelsea’s six-yard box.

All but one of Lukaku’s touches were nearer the centre circle than the penalty area D and he did not make contact any nearer than 25 yards from goal and then only once. It was pretty much the epitome of uselessness.

Yet because Match of the Day is close to a retired strikers’ club — Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Dion Dublin — he was indulged. ‘When I played, if I wasn’t getting much of the ball, if I wasn’t getting service, I would be hammering people,’ said Lineker. ‘If you’re not going to play to your forward’s strengths, it’s very frustrating,’ added Shearer.

That’s too easy, blame the supply line. Chelsea are not short of creatives, not short of ideas. Imagine Harry Kane in Chelsea’s team, imagine Mo Salah as he is now. Imagine, even, Emmanuel Dennis or Michail Antonio.

 

Last season, Thomas Tuchel often had Timo Werner up front, who has been nobody’s idea of a successful striker since coming to English football — yet they did not look as dysfunctional as they have with Lukaku this season.

That’s because, for all his faults, Werner moves. He makes runs, he commits defenders, he drags them about. The supporters love him for it. For all the frustration there is no great anger at Werner because his work rate is achingly obvious. God loves a trier and so does the Shed End.

Werner scored three goals for Chelsea under Tuchel last season, but of the 24 matches in which he featured, Chelsea won 16 and drew five.

Why? Because if the striker is moving, space opens up for others. Lukaku is failing his team-mates, not the other way around. He mopes. He sulks. He doesn’t think Chelsea’s style suits him and he’s damned if he’s going to accommodate another game, bar his own.

At Selhurst Park he didn’t seek involvement, he didn’t engage. Chelsea won despite their striker, not because of him. And for that money, he is expected to be a catalyst.

Tuchel made a strange excuse for Lukaku yesterday, saying that strikers have often struggled at Chelsea, but that isn’t strictly true. Didier Drogba didn’t and nor did Diego Costa. Nicolas Anelka was Premier League top goalscorer in 2008-09, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink in 2000-01.

This century only Arsenal have had the leading league goalscorer more times than Chelsea. The expensive disappointments — Andriy Shevchenko, Fernando Torres, Alvaro Morata — do not tell the whole story and, anyway, have nothing to do with Lukaku’s malaise. This is not a self- fulfilling prophecy.

Where does this end? Gone. Roman Abramovich does not tolerate passengers and Chelsea cannot afford them. They have a relatively comfortable Champions League last-16 first leg against Lille tonight but, as Saturday’s match showed, nothing ever gets easier with 10 men.

And that’s what Chelsea look like at the moment: 10, plus Lukaku. Compare their goal threat to that of Liverpool, who they meet at Wembley on Sunday. Tuchel is keeping Chelsea on course for the Champions League, but this is a season that could quickly unravel.

Their next league games are Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich, Brentford, Southampton and Leeds, which should cement their Champions League place for next season. But if it does not, they close with a sequence of matches against clubs who could have everything to play for, including West Ham, Wolves and Manchester United.

It will be argued Tuchel needs to make Lukaku work, but it is the player who must get cracking.

Lukaku may not care to spend a second season at Chelsea. On this showing, it’s just as well.

I feel it's really not being truly emphasised just how bad 7 touches actually is. Yes it's being mentioned but not truly being scrutinized.

When i was a teenager i (ofcourse at a much lower level) played striker for a team that had (roughly) around 25-30% possession a game and even with that figure it was literally impossible to touch the ball so little without playing some heavy duty hide and seek, to do it in a team that recorded 57% possession is genuinely outrageous, i can't actually believe there's any excuses for this. 

Edited February 22, 20224 yr by Argo