35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We bought both Werner and Lukaku because of their scoring, nothing else and nothing more. And no, Werner doesn't make things happen.

Werner had 12 goals in 52 games last season, Lukaku has 10 goals in 28 games this season so far, Lukaku's output per game so far isn't even 10% lower than Werner's from last season and the one thing that can save him is just playing games and there are 10+ games left in the league.

Tammy Abraham last season had 18 goals + assists in 32 games which is a better output per game in comparison to both Lukaku and Werner.
Tammy in his first PL season could do more as a 22 year old than Werner, he had 18 goals in all competitions, 24 goals + assists in 870 minutes less played in comparison to Werner's last season so he's simply just a better striker than Werner overall.

It's like we've backed all the wrong horses.

Abraham, Giroud, Broja all allowed to leave, and yet all showing more form and putting up better numbers this season than Lukaku, Werner and Havertz.

We spent £18M on the first three (£18M Giroud, plus two for free out of the academy), and £217.2M on the second three LOL. So we spent almost £200M more to get a worse result. That's world class recruitment LOL.

14 hours ago, coco said:

Discount anything he has to say on Tuchel, he has remained loyal to Frank even to this day, he won't give Tuchel the time of day 

Its nowt to do with Lampard, even at the time I said I had no problem with a new manager coming in, I was pissed off at the club as for once we seemingly had an actual plan to allow a manager time to integrate youth and build the squad properly, whcih then obviously didnt happen.

But even Tuchels biggest acolytes must surely admit that the football we play is an abomination, utterly dreadful in every way, zero redeeming factors etc.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

It's like we've backed all the wrong horses.

Abraham, Giroud, Broja all allowed to leave, and yet all showing more form and putting up better numbers this season than Lukaku, Werner and Havertz.

We spent £18M on the first three (£18M Giroud, plus two for free out of the academy), and £217.2M on the second three LOL. So we spent almost £200M more to get a worse result. That's world class recruitment LOL.

We saw how many goals Giroud scores in the Prem. Not many. 

We tested Abraham who needed to play every minute, he didn't score that much.

Broja is 19 or 20. 

Werner and Lukaku are good purchases on paper. No one can deny that. 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

If his fee was 10m and he was 21 would you back him?

Nobody would back a 21 year old striker that had 7 touches in a game after 90min. We would say that player needs a loan elsewhere

3 hours ago, evissy said:

If his fee was 10m and he was 21 would you back him?

If that was the case not a single person would be making these ridiculous excuses for his incompetence.

Saul the loan signing was (rightly) wrote off pretty quickly with absolutely zero opposition or excuses but if you dare do the same for the £97m signing who's breaking negative records constantly.....

39 minutes ago, Deino said:

Nobody would back a 21 year old striker that had 7 touches in a game after 90min. We would say that player needs a loan elsewhere

One of those touches was the kick off and another was offside.

9 minutes ago, coco said:

One of those touches was the kick off and another was offside.

The offside wasn't his fault as the pass should've come earlier and the kick-off was immaculate. Best of the season so far.

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

If that was the case not a single person would be making these ridiculous excuses for his incompetence.

Saul the loan signing was (rightly) wrote off pretty quickly with absolutely zero opposition or excuses but if you dare do the same for the £97m signing who's breaking negative records constantly.....

No one says we can't critisice Lukaku. I am just wondering how smart it is. If we want what is best for Chelsea we should do everything we can to help our record signing feel home and backed. Not saying the match going fans are not doing so. 

Lukaku is not going anywhere. Same situation happened last time with Torres and Morata. Torres for all his failures did well in the end by giving his all. He was backed by fans and his situation was sympatheised by many. 

Lukaku also needs to succeed so that Tuchel has any chance of making it past this season. 

Everyone knows the massively awkward situation we are in with our new shining 97m man. To get out of it Tuchel needs to work with the side and he needs fans backing the player. 

As soon as Lukaku starts hitting the net we can go on. Same goes with Werner.

1 minute ago, evissy said:

No one says we can't critisice Lukaku. I am just wondering how smart it is. If we want what is best for Chelsea we should do everything..............

...............possible to get rid of Lukaku ASAFP !

7 minutes ago, evissy said:

No one says we can't critisice Lukaku. I am just wondering how smart it is. If we want what is best for Chelsea we should do everything we can to help our record signing feel home and backed. Not saying the match going fans are not doing so. 

But as I said support works both ways. If he's barely putting any effort in and going on record saying he'd rather be elsewhere then why should he get universally cheered?

Personally I'm not a fan of booing (I prefer voting with my feet which I'm strongly considering doing until he's gone) but if someone who's put their hard earned money into attending matches let their frustration at him boil over I certainly won't be holding it as a black mark against them.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Argo

4 minutes ago, coco said:

...............possible to get rid of Lukaku ASAFP !

Would be fun if it worked like that.

Anyway if we managed to do that we would go on and buy another expensive target man. 

I wish Lukaku didn't do that interview. His life would be a bit easier even if he didn't score or perform in every game .

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

But as I said support works both ways. If he's barely putting any effort in and going on record saying he'd rather be elsewhere then why should he get universally cheered?

Personally I'm not a fan of booing (I prefer voting with my feet which I'm strongly considering doing until he's gone) but if someone who's put their hard earned money into attending matches let their frustration at him boil over I certainly won't be holding it as a black mark against them.

You can do that. Most of the money comes from TV anyway and someone else will sit on your seat. Form of protest for sure. Just don't see what that changes. 

Lukaku looked a good buy by most people in the summer. I wanted Haaland but it was never close. Things just have turned into what they turned. Wish they didn't. 

What we can do is just help him the way we can. 

18 minutes ago, evissy said:

You can do that. Most of the money comes from TV anyway and someone else will sit on your seat. Form of protest for sure. Just don't see what that changes. 

Lukaku looked a good buy by most people in the summer. I wanted Haaland but it was never close. Things just have turned into what they turned. Wish they didn't. 

What we can do is just help him the way we can. 

Me and many others saw this coming, he was a clear stylistic misfit for Tuchel's tactics and worse he's not even offering a decent goal rate to somewhat make up for it which even I thought he would. Infact the fox in the box type forward is slowly dying out (despite his personal record Dortmund as a team declined after signing Haaland), it's no coincidence that the last two league winners and two of the last three UCL winners have played false 9.

Take Firmino out of that Liverpool side, replace him with a poacher and all of a sudden Mane/Salah and Robertson/Trent are a lot more restricted in their tactical possibilities and as a consequence a hell of a lot more easier to cope with for the opposition. Same story with us since ditching the F9/fluid system (anyone thinking James and Chilwell returning will solve this are in for a nasty surprise).

Imagine our fluid system with Ziyech's current form, we'd be laughing.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Argo

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Its nowt to do with Lampard, even at the time I said I had no problem with a new manager coming in, I was pissed off at the club as for once we seemingly had an actual plan to allow a manager time to integrate youth and build the squad properly, whcih then obviously didnt happen.

But even Tuchels biggest acolytes must surely admit that the football we play is an abomination, utterly dreadful in every way, zero redeeming factors etc.

I'd say winning several trophies in his first full year is quite a redeeming factor. 

I agree on quality of our football being poor but again, it's only partially true. Our backline has been for the most part great under Tuchel, in fact the defenders along with both keepers is the biggest reason for our relative success so far. Where we continue to struggle is attack, but that had become a problem long before Tuchel, we haven't had a well run attack since Conte's title winning season. Sarriball was all about passing sideways with only Hazard providing any spark due to individual brilliance and while under Frank we were more adventurous going forward we were just as toothless in front of goal, and most importantly, very leaky at the back. Having a world class attacker like Eden helped paper over the cracks our serious defficiences over the years but once he was gone, there was no hiding from the fact we're not good enough in that department and neither individually, nor collectively did we manage to come even close to replacing the quality we lost once the little Belgian moved to Madrid.

Tuchel has to carry the blame for bringing in Lukaku and he has to figure out how to make it work up front. I think the plan was that the trio of Werner, Havertz and Ziyech will improve in their second season and contribute to our attack becoming significantly better. That didn't happen. CHO continues to struggle and Pulisic while finally overcoming fitness struggles has been disappointing so far.

We have no scorers/assist makers in midfield, none. Chilwell and James provided width and pace early in the season but once they got injured, we lost that too. 

Tuchel is at fault for us not moving the ball faster in the buildup and for our style being too slow and predictable. His recent excuse about players beng tired after CWC and playing in a different climate was odd, imo. I think he's feeling the pressure and we're entering a business end of the season with the team currently not looking very convincing. I just hope the players will finally find some sort of form and we can finish the season on a high because I want Tuchel to stay and build his own team here.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by abramovich

16 minutes ago, abramovich said:

We have no scorers/assist makers in midfield, none

Kovacic have proved to be a good creative outlet from midfield this season. But even he has only been able to start 12 games for us this season due to persistent injuries. Kante too have been more injured then fit. And then you have all the other injuries on top of that. Even Lukaku have only been able to start 12 out of 25 league games due to injuries so we've had to deal with an unprecedented amount of injuries, Covid and fatigue.

So zero redeeming factors is a bunch of crap.

 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

You can do that. Most of the money comes from TV anyway and someone else will sit on your seat. Form of protest for sure. Just don't see what that changes. 

Lukaku looked a good buy by most people in the summer. I wanted Haaland but it was never close. Things just have turned into what they turned. Wish they didn't. 

What we can do is just help him the way we can. 

Signing Haaland would make us look like a fool

21 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Signing Haaland would make us look like a fool

How so? He is an absolute beast. 

22 hours ago, Argo said:

He said similar when he stunk The Ethiad out yet has started him in every game since.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Yeah, I'll also believe it when I see as well. Maybe I was just looking into it, but to me, Tuchel seemed to be more agitated and exasperated when discussing Lukaku. Lille is a big game tomorrow, so I can't see Tuchel benching him, but if there was a game this week to bench him for... wouldn't it be Lille?

6 hours ago, evissy said:

You can do that. Most of the money comes from TV anyway and someone else will sit on your seat. Form of protest for sure. Just don't see what that changes. 

Lukaku looked a good buy by most people in the summer. I wanted Haaland but it was never close. Things just have turned into what they turned. Wish they didn't. 

What we can do is just help him the way we can. 

Bravo @evissy

Most of us here have given up on Rom, as he appears to me and several others to have given up on us as well.

So much about him is even worse than I feared, he combined with our general slow play and rubbish offense makes us a depressing watch imo.

So for you to still have some positivity around him, some belief, when we watch the same games I think geninually is great, and nice to see some positivity around here cause lord knows I cannot bring it lol.

So keep it up mate, while I dont believe this particular tree will bare fruit I would really love it to be proven wrong and most of us to have a heaping piece of humble pie to eat while you could say "I always believed". 👍

2 hours ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

Yeah, I'll also believe it when I see as well. Maybe I was just looking into it, but to me, Tuchel seemed to be more agitated and exasperated when discussing Lukaku. Lille is a big game tomorrow, so I can't see Tuchel benching him, but if there was a game this week to bench him for... wouldn't it be Lille?

He shouldn't be anywhere near the team for either and if he had anything about him (and I mean anything at all) he'd then return at Luton chomping at the bit with a point to prove.

But we all know it won't happen, he'll start and probably finish both and even if by some miracle the penny has finally dropped with TT then he'd sulk even harder and be even less use than he currently is.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

How so? He is an absolute beast. 

I would imagine that he would also be a flop, although possibly not as much as Timo and The donkey. 

Haaland thrives on space to run into and on balls played in early. Our current system simply doesn't provide this.

If it did, then Timo would be firing. So to Rom.

 

2 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I would imagine that he would also be a flop, although possibly not as much as Timo and The donkey. 

Haaland thrives on space to run into and on balls played in early. Our current system simply doesn't provide this.

If it did, then Timo would be firing. So to Rom.

 

Haaland will score goals and be a individual success wherever he goes but I can't shake off the feeling he's born in the wrong era.

I can see him being a bit of a square peg in a round hole systematically speaking for many clubs, which is why I don't think him going to City would be the doomsday disaster many believe it would be. Infact if by some miracle we got rid of Lukaku I would strongly fancy us with a F9/fluid system against City playing with a poacher, even an elite one.

6 hours ago, Argo said:

Me and many others saw this coming, he was a clear stylistic misfit for Tuchel's tactics and worse he's not even offering a decent goal rate to somewhat make up for it which even I thought he would. Infact the fox in the box type forward is slowly dying out (despite his personal record Dortmund as a team declined after signing Haaland), it's no coincidence that the last two league winners and two of the last three UCL winners have played false 9.

Take Firmino out of that Liverpool side, replace him with a poacher and all of a sudden Mane/Salah and Robertson/Trent are a lot more restricted in their tactical possibilities and as a consequence a hell of a lot more easier to cope with for the opposition. Same story with us since ditching the F9/fluid system (anyone thinking James and Chilwell returning will solve this are in for a nasty surprise).

Imagine our fluid system with Ziyech's current form, we'd be laughing.

That's the main issue for us, our first choice full-back are injured and Lukaku simpy doesn't play as a false 9.

Tuchel could clearly see that the teams we're chasing, meaning Man City and Liverpool play that fluid style without having a classical centre-forward. Yet look at the decisions he made, he sells Tammy, benches Werner and doesn't build the team around Havertz that won him the CL, all in order to get Lukaku, with the notion that he would provide some extra tactical option?

What a tragic example of how 1 move can make several players worse, sure Havertz wasn't elite but he has so much potential and even if Werner missed a lot of chances we were a really good pressing team with him and Mount in the lineup. Now all that is gone and for what?? 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

How so? He is an absolute beast. 

Imagine spending 200m for one of the best young st in europe and we ask him to play like giroud.

And we can see how dire he is playing, but he is currently favoured over Werner, who is to lightweight, Speed kills, but technique and self belief help…