50 minutes ago, coco said:

94 minutes

7 touches 

0 hope

The data is telling you something Tommy boy.

You cannot blame 10 players for not finding him.

He's become the hide not seek World champion.

This is the same TT who thought playing Havertz wide and CP as the 10 was a good idea.

He has done a lot of good things for us but he is not immune from criticism for dumb calls either.

He plays Rom, that is a dumb call as we are not set up to get anything out of him and he is not willing to work hard enough to make things work. At the same time we are not willing to play that quick ball forward to him on the odd occasion he actually makes a decent move.

Rather than play CP and Havertz in their natural roles he sets them up to fail, and does nothing to change it.

He has playing terrible football and has for over 2 months. Our first goal seems to be retianing possession over anything else, even yesterday we lucked out Alonso fluked a good cross cause the subs were like for like not designed to make us more offensive.

We have no decent play B. Is like we have accepted without Chilwell and James we are done as a top team.

There you go @dkw

37 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Well, you expect him to win us points despite anything that might be going on behind him. So in other words, you'd expect him to be top class whether he had prime Fabregas and Hazard behind him or Havertz and Pulisic and others that generally can't assist to save their lives. Obviously who's with him in attacking areas makes a massive difference and if you are prepared to absolve every other attack to put the blame solely on Lukaku then you are being unreasonable in my view.

He should have been put through, clean on goal at least twice yesterday but the obvious pass never came. That is a problem no matter what anyone says.

Lukaku is very frustrating currently. No argument that but i'll be damned if for example Havertz who's absolutely sh*te himself is going to escape any cristicism. If Havertz was a good as we expected he'd make a huge difference for our striker. Instead he's strolling around, looking uninterested and generally sucks this season.

 

Well he could have played with Fabregas but missed out because he didn't have the guts to compete with Diego Costa for a place (in hindsight thankgod as Costa was injured or suspended a lot and Lukaku would have never scored the vital goals Remy and even 36 year old Drogba did). As for Hazard let's just say it's becoming very clear how he managed to show such restraint playing with the likes of Alonso, Morata, Michy and Rami given what he was dealing with at international level.

If Kai didn't bother doing any form of pressing, was open about how he doesn't want to be here after already rage quitting the club once before, had a history of causing locker room problems, started every match unconditionally and compared himself favorably to the best players in his position then believe me I'd be very much on his case aswell.

And yes for a £97m player who we've abandoned a highly promising and aesthetically pleasing system (all be it with issues finishing) to accommodate I do expect him to tuck away the two sitters Mount gave him against Spurs in the league or the free header against the same team in the league cup or the tap in against Plymouth or atleast one of the two big chances he got at The Ethiad or to put some effort to get back onside yesterday when Kova gave him a great pass yesterday, don't you? Call me old fashioned but high price tag and high wages plus an ego of a bonafide superstar = high expectations. He's making Neymar look as humble as Zola while churning out performances that are making Chris Sutton's here look like R9, can you really not see how and why that's rubbing people up the wrong way?

I'm not absolving every one else (I've been quite vocal about how I've completely given up on Pulisic) but they are not in any way shape or form responsible for Lukaku hiding behind defenders and making Heskey look as silky as Messi. And if he needs specific circumstances to be as much as competent then that is a black mark on him, the fact it's being portrayed as something positive is mindblowing.

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by Argo

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

This is the same TT who thought playing Havertz wide and CP as the 10 was a good idea.

He has done a lot of good things for us but he is not immune from criticism for dumb calls either.

He plays Rom, that is a dumb call as we are not set up to get anything out of him and he is not willing to work hard enough to make things work. At the same time we are not willing to play that quick ball forward to him on the odd occasion he actually makes a decent move.

Rather than play CP and Havertz in their natural roles he sets them up to fail, and does nothing to change it.

He has playing terrible football and has for over 2 months. Our first goal seems to be retianing possession over anything else, even yesterday we lucked out Alonso fluked a good cross cause the subs were like for like not designed to make us more offensive.

We have no decent play B. Is like we have accepted without Chilwell and James we are done as a top team.

There you go @dkw

Discount anything he has to say on Tuchel, he has remained loyal to Frank even to this day, he won't give Tuchel the time of day 

1 minute ago, coco said:

Discount anything he has to say on Tuchel, he has remained loyal to Frank even to this day, he won't give Tuchel the time of day 

Lol fair enough.

Still though the point remains TT has some issues to sort out.

I really do not get rhe whole Havertz and CP one yesterday nor why he did not introduce Vale for either of them he could not have been worse.

His sticking to defenders actually does yield goals when he occupies them and another player ghosts in. Of course that's not what he's trying to do but there is that small benefit. Also as we saw in the CWC, if you can stick it directly on his head with 99% accuracy and without his majesty needing to adjust his position then he is strong in the air and will likely score.

Other than that, players don't want to hurt their pass completion rate as it reflects poorly on them, and Lukaku will moan at you unless you get the perfect pass in.

He sucks, flog him off.

1 minute ago, CFCholland said:

He sucks, flog him off.

I don't like us fans turning on him. We should give him benefit of the doubt. 

We all cheer him scoring so help him do so.

3 minutes ago, evissy said:

I don't like us fans turning on him. We should give him benefit of the doubt. 

We all cheer him scoring so help him do so.

Support is a two way street, especially with the fans who buy any form of Chelsea tickets/merchandise as it's contributing to his wages.

5 minutes ago, evissy said:

I don't like us fans turning on him. We should give him benefit of the doubt. 

We all cheer him scoring so help him do so.

So what you’re saying is it’s the management, his teammates and now the fans all failing him? Who next, Zouma’s cat?

14 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

So what you’re saying is it’s the management, his teammates and now the fans all failing him? Who next, Zouma’s cat?

He should have gone to Liverpool. Perfect for the "always the victim, never their fault" mentality.

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Well, you expect him to win us points despite anything that might be going on behind him. So in other words, you'd expect him to be top class whether he had prime Fabregas and Hazard behind him or Havertz and Pulisic and others that generally can't assist to save their lives. Obviously who's with him in attacking areas makes a massive difference and if you are prepared to absolve every other attack to put the blame solely on Lukaku then you are being unreasonable in my view.

He should have been put through, clean on goal at least twice yesterday but the obvious pass never came. That is a problem no matter what anyone says.

Lukaku is very frustrating currently. No argument that but i'll be damned if for example Havertz who's absolutely sh*te himself is going to escape any cristicism. If Havertz was a good as we expected he'd make a huge difference for our striker. Instead he's strolling around, looking uninterested and generally sucks this season.

 

It was also a problem with Werner last season - our players simply don't play the early ball forward.

But despite Us not playing to Werner's strengths (early passes, into space for him to run on to), he still busted a gut to contribute to the team. Contributing with 26 goals/ assists by the end of the season. Unlike the big lump who doesn't bother trying.

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by nonotnowjim

3 hours ago, Zeta said:

Lukaku attempting to dribble the ball.

made me genuinely laugh!

51 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

It was also a problem with Werner last season - our players simply don't play the early ball forward.

But despite Us not playing to Werner's strengths (early passes, into space for him to run on to), he still busted a gut to contribute to the team. Contributing with 26 goals/ assists by the end of the season. Unlike the big lump who doesn't bother trying.

Blaming other players can only work for a limited amount of time, Werner has missed tons of chances last season and this season he's pretty bad in general so that all points to him not being good enough. The narrative of 26 goals+assist has literally has no weight in this, Tammy was a better striker than Werner regardless of when the ball was played.

This was a ‘Manchester United Ed Woodward’ signing, as if the board had somehow channeled his methods in making the decision to sign Lukaku. And by that I’m not referring to them literally signing him before, more the ‘thinking’ and purpose towards it, marketing, next big name after Haaland, ‘reunion’. 

Broja has to be given full reign to impose himself on this team next season, he’s got the Diego Costa aggression, can carry the ball, quick with quick feet to boot, literally everything we’re crying out for. But guess what, we made an ‘Ed Woodward’ signing and now we’re stuck.. and most likely he’ll either be offloaded or want out when Tuchel’s hand is forced to favour the mistake.

It's quite laughable to see people making excuses for this guy. Most strikers don't receive the ball when they make runs, because the pass becomes too obvious and is easily cut out. Each player with the ball has several options, and most times, the striker is not the best pass to make. When facing teams parking the bus, it is very difficult to find through balls to the striker. If a striker becomes useless because he does not receive through balls, then he's useless in a top team like ours because you will face parked buses more often than not. To make matters worse, he is also useless against top teams who don't park the bus. It's unbelievable that we're stuck with another sh*t striker for another 4 years or whatever length his contract is. A lot of people saw this coming but the club in their infinite wisdom decided to buy him for big bucks anyway. How we haven't learned from our numerous failed striker signings is beyond me.

4 minutes ago, Term_X said:

This was a ‘Manchester United Ed Woodward’ signing, as if the board had somehow channeled his methods in making the decision to sign Lukaku. And by that I’m not referring to them literally signing him before, more the ‘thinking’ and purpose towards it, marketing, next big name after Haaland, ‘reunion’. 

Broja has to be given full reign to impose himself on this team next season, he’s got the Diego Costa aggression, can carry the ball, quick with quick feet to boot, literally everything we’re crying out for. But guess what, we made an ‘Ed Woodward’ signing and now we’re stuck.. and most likely he’ll either be offloaded or want out when Tuchel’s hand is forced to favour the mistake.

Speaking of United, remarkably the ridiculous amount of excuses for Lukaku this weekend has been topped by Tim Sherwood throwing a World Cup and multiple times UCL winner under the bus to protect Harry Maguire.

 

 

4 hours ago, evissy said:

I don't like us fans turning on him. We should give him benefit of the doubt. 

We all cheer him scoring so help him do so.

I can't ignore everything I have seen for the past decade just because he is now our player. There probably isn't a player us Chelsea fans have watched more since we loaned him to West Brom. 10 years of seeing the best and the worst of Lukaku, and from what I have seen, the worst of Lukaku far outweighs the best. Just how much longer are we supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt? There is nothing left to see.

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It was also a problem with Werner last season - our players simply don't play the early ball forward.

But despite Us not playing to Werner's strengths (early passes, into space for him to run on to), he still busted a gut to contribute to the team. Contributing with 26 goals/ assists by the end of the season. Unlike the big lump who doesn't bother trying.

I agree 100% we need a creative player like a Fabregas who sees the pass early on and bloody passes!. We're like a Geoff Boycott playing team at the moment, all about the average.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I can't ignore everything I have seen for the past decade just because he is now our player. There probably isn't a player us Chelsea fans have watched more since we loaned him to West Brom. 10 years of seeing the best and the worst of Lukaku, and from what I have seen, the worst of Lukaku far outweighs the best. Just how much longer are we supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt? There is nothing left to see.

4 plus years Scott. 4 plus years this guy will suck the fun out of watching our club.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by axman2526

7 hours ago, Gol15 said:

The narrative of 26 goals+assist has literally has no weight in this, Tammy was a better striker than Werner regardless of when the ball was played.

Not true. As i said before, whilst we all love goals, being a striker in the modern game is more than just scoring. Werner makes things happen. 

26 goals and assists of course has weight - pretty sure if we were offered that number for lukaku at the moment, we would all take it!

On your last point, bambi on ice is a more composed finisher than timo, but is less effective in everything else.

5 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I can't ignore everything I have seen for the past decade just because he is now our player. There probably isn't a player us Chelsea fans have watched more since we loaned him to West Brom. 10 years of seeing the best and the worst of Lukaku, and from what I have seen, the worst of Lukaku far outweighs the best. Just how much longer are we supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt? There is nothing left to see.

So we are not supposed to back our player? It is not his fault his transfer fee was astronomical. He earned it by being prolific in Italy and for Belgium. 

I don't see us offloading him and to be fair I don't feel we need to. Not yet anyway. 

He started well and there is no reason he can't go back to that. He messed up with that interview and we have no idea how strong he is. If he is strong he brushes off that as a mistake and moves on. We shouldn't remind him of it either. I don't care about that situation at all. He loves Inter, so what. First club he thrived at. 

If he scores like an attacker does I don't care what his name or his history is. But he needs people to back him, his teammates, Tuchel and us fans. 

I haven't seen any sign of him sulking. I feel he tries hard in games. 

6 minutes ago, evissy said:

So we are not supposed to back our player? It is not his fault his transfer fee was astronomical. He earned it by being prolific in Italy and for Belgium. 

I don't see us offloading him and to be fair I don't feel we need to. Not yet anyway. 

He started well and there is no reason he can't go back to that. He messed up with that interview and we have no idea how strong he is. If he is strong he brushes off that as a mistake and moves on. We shouldn't remind him of it either. I don't care about that situation at all. He loves Inter, so what. First club he thrived at. 

If he scores like an attacker does I don't care what his name or his history is. But he needs people to back him, his teammates, Tuchel and us fans. 

I haven't seen any sign of him sulking. I feel he tries hard in games. 

You can back him if you like, even I had a tiny bit of hope that I would be wrong after he started so well, but the Lukaku I grew to dislike over the years soon turned up and now I have no hope that he will turn it around. We have ruined almost everything about our game to try and get the best out of one of the least technically gifted players in the squad. I can't be sorry about being a bit bitter about that.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

You can back him if you like, even I had a tiny bit of hope that I would be wrong after he started so well, but the Lukaku I grew to dislike over the years soon turned up and now I have no hope that he will turn it around. We have ruined almost everything about our game to try and get the best out of one of the least technically gifted players in the squad. I can't be sorry about being a bit bitter about that.

If his fee was 10m and he was 21 would you back him?

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by evissy

24 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Not true. As i said before, whilst we all love goals, being a striker in the modern game is more than just scoring. Werner makes things happen. 

26 goals and assists of course has weight - pretty sure if we were offered that number for lukaku at the moment, we would all take it!

On your last point, bambi on ice is a more composed finisher than timo, but is less effective in everything else.

We bought both Werner and Lukaku because of their scoring, nothing else and nothing more. And no, Werner doesn't make things happen.

Werner had 12 goals in 52 games last season, Lukaku has 10 goals in 28 games this season so far, Lukaku's output per game so far isn't even 10% lower than Werner's from last season and the one thing that can save him is just playing games and there are 10+ games left in the league.

Tammy Abraham last season had 18 goals + assists in 32 games which is a better output per game in comparison to both Lukaku and Werner.
Tammy in his first PL season could do more as a 22 year old than Werner, he had 18 goals in all competitions, 24 goals + assists in 870 minutes less played in comparison to Werner's last season so he's simply just a better striker than Werner overall.