10 hours ago, dkw said:

Harvey Vale, Soonsup-Bell, Lewis Hall, Xavier Simons. All other than Webster played in the EFL cup game or Fa cup game, all looked like they could handle the step up. All haven't played a single minute in the first team since, other than Vale who got 5 minutes in a game. All this while everyone agrees our first team are knackered and desperately in need of rest, which has led to a lot of injuries to them, playing out of form players and others out of position.

So empirical evidence shows Tuchel is unwilling to play youth players in a season where we desperately needed them, therefore its pretty easy to see he wont play them next season.

It isnt even remotely comparible. All the players listed have cut their teeth in adults football already. They arent rookies from the youth system. 

Chalobah is probably the most similar example.

To say Tuchel wouldnt play Gallagher who is a full england international, because he hasnt played Webster or Vale is mind boggling. 

18 minutes ago, big blue said:

It isnt even remotely comparible. All the players listed have cut their teeth in adults football already. They arent rookies from the youth system. 

Chalobah is probably the most similar example.

To say Tuchel wouldnt play Gallagher who is a full england international, because he hasnt played Webster or Vale is mind boggling. 

Some people like to think the average performance RLC or Saul gives when is as bad as it gets. 

Throw Vale in to a game now and there's a good chance it's a lot worse. And it will damage the player as well 

Tuchel sees these kids a lot, they train with the first team. If someone's not ready, the worst thing to do is chuck them in a PL game that matters because we're light on numbers. 

It depends whether we are really serious about challenging next season or whether it will be another transitional season...there is a case that Gallagher, Broja and Colwill will progress, generally speaking though most Chelsea youth players who have broken through (not been many) are past their 21st Birthday and have been on several loans.... With the exception of CHO who was considered a generational talent as someone mentioned before, that's why really I can only see Gallagher and Sterling being integrated...Maybe Colwill and Broja as well even though they are younger..the rest I can see going on loan again or being sold with clauses inserted in their contracts...Vale is a tricky one as his contract is up this summer, hopefully he will be renewed though.

15 hours ago, bisright1 said:

.

Throw Vale in to a game now and there's a good chance it's a lot worse. And it will damage the player as well . 

Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by dkw

15 minutes ago, dkw said:

Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.

What about chalobah? No one's using mount or James as an example. 

What about Gallagher, he's been pretty clear he wants to use him next year. 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by bisright1

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.

Mount and James became established first team players AFTER they proved themselves with successful loans in the Championship, and also in Holland at Vitesse in Mount's case.

Vale, Hall, Soonsup-Bell etc aren't remotely on the same page of their career trajectory yet ... 

What has changed, in the cases of Guehi, Livramento, Lamptey is their propensity to wait their chance. All three opted to jump ship before that moment arrived. A big shame. Others who similarly jumped ship have struggled to establish themselves at their new clubs of course. Lewis Bate was one, and he literally made his first start with Leeds only last week against us, and looked well off the pace I thought. I think if Guehi had waited a year, he'd be in the frame to be one of our 22/23 roster of centre backs, but this season (with Rudiger, Christensen, Silva and no takers for a loan for the £120K a week Sarr, who therefore had to stay, and had to be used to justify what we are paying him) it was undoubtedly a case of one space for a Cobhamite, and Tuchel opted for Chalobah.

No idea why Tomori was frozen out by Lampard. I thought he was one of our better centre backs that season, in particular when playing alongside Zouma. Abraham splits opinion as to whether he is good enough. I can understand why TT let him go, when the club were giving him Lukaku. Certainly wasn't room for both of them, when we also had Havertz.

Isn’t there a limit to the number of Over-21s we can loan out from next season? Should make things very interesting.

If by chance 3rd place is settled before the last game then maybe we will see some youth get a chance against Watford.

Maatsen apparently turned down a move to Feyenoord because he feels he can make the team. 

42 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Maatsen apparently turned down a move to Feyenoord because he feels he can make the team. 

Good man. I really hope he and Sterling are given this season to show they either can or cannot be good backups to Chilwell and James. 

Hopefully we can shift along Alonso and Emerson.

 

Without going full youth development on you all I think the following is sensible depth wise this season:

 

GK: Mendy-Kepa-Marcus B

 

RB/RWB: James-D. Sterling

LB/LWB: Chilwell-Maatsen

 

CBS (back 4 or 3): De Ligt- Chalobah

Silva-Ake-Colwill

 

CDM:  New signing - Jorginho

 

CMs: Gallagher - Kante,  Kovacic-Gilmour

 

ACM: Mount-Havertz

 

WF: CHO-Pulisic-Werner-Ziyech or new signing

 

CF: Broja-Havertz-Werner

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Good man. I really hope he and Sterling are given this season to show they either can or cannot be good backups to Chilwell and James. 

Hopefully we can shift along Alonso and Emerson.

 

Without going full youth development on you all I think the following is sensible depth wise this season:

 

GK: Mendy-Kepa-Marcus B

 

RB/RWB: James-D. Sterling

LB/LWB: Chilwell-Maatsen

 

CBS (back 4 or 3): De Ligt- Chalobah

Silva-Ake-Colwill

 

CDM:  New signing - Jorginho

 

CMs: Gallagher - Kante,  Kovacic-Gilmour

 

ACM: Mount-Havertz

 

WF: CHO-Pulisic-Werner-Ziyech or new signing

 

CF: Broja-Havertz-Werner

From what I have seen of him, Maatsen would provide very capable backup for Chilwell when needed. I have also been impressed with Dujon Sterling when I watched him play. Even if we bring in 1 or 2 CB's this window they may need some time to settle into the squad, so it will be good to have reliable options from the current squad that are ready to start the season at least.

Just now, forbzy said:

From what I have seen of him, Maatsen would provide very capable backup for Chilwell when needed. I have also been impressed with Dujon Sterling when I watched him play. Even if we bring in 1 or 2 CB's this window they may need some time to settle into the squad, so it will be good to have reliable options from the current squad that are ready to start the season at least.

Exactly.

We also have a budget, this we know all too well. So don't waste it on backup wingbacks if we have 2 that deserve a chance and are free, spend thar extra money getting De Ligt, Sterling, Ake etc if these are your top must have targets.

Is very easy on TT part. Speak to Todd, tell him you don't need six but you really badly want those 3 or 4 so spend extra on them please and you will solve other problems with loan and youth players.

Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)

30 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)

Latest iv'e heard is Sterling and Broja will travel later.

18 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Latest iv'e heard is Sterling and Broja will travel later.

Raheem or Dujon ?

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)

I posted on the other thread but apparently Dujon has impressed but is unvaccinated which is why he's not going on the tour.

3 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)

I'm surprised Hall isn't in the USA squad.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I posted on the other thread but apparently Dujon has impressed but is unvaccinated which is why he's not going on the tour.

That's a shame he missed out, I wonder if it is the same for Maatsen or if he has not impressed.

2 hours ago, Valerie said:

I'm surprised Hall isn't in the USA squad.

I think Hall's on the young and inexperienced side to be on the USA squad. He's still 17~18

1 hour ago, Deino said:

I think Hall's on the young and inexperienced side to be on the USA squad. He's still 17~18

Yeah, you may be right. I thought because he's had a sniff of first team action, he might be in the USA squad to train with the big boys a bit more. Oh well, perhaps in the course of the upcoming season then, assuming he's not yet going on loan.

On 05/07/2022 at 21:02, forbzy said:

From what I have seen of him, Maatsen would provide very capable backup for Chilwell when needed. I have also been impressed with Dujon Sterling when I watched him play. Even if we bring in 1 or 2 CB's this window they may need some time to settle into the squad, so it will be good to have reliable options from the current squad that are ready to start the season at least.

didnt make the pre-season squad. Looks like will be moved on.

would this be why Maatsen hasn't travelled? Surprised with Alonso likely to be out the door that he hasn't gone.

23 hours ago, Valerie said:

I'm surprised Hall isn't in the USA squad.

I agree

2 hours ago, Fruity66 said:

would this be why Maatsen hasn't travelled? Surprised with Alonso likely to be out the door that he hasn't gone.

I am wondering if Dest is the target instead of De Jong as part of the Alonso and Azpi to Barcelona talk.

Whilst Dest is predominantly right he can play both sides and therefore with Chilly (who i expect to be injured again at some point) Dest and maybe Emerson, both Maatsen and Rahman would be surplus and may actually be able to generate some cash in sales

8 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

and may actually be able to generate some cash in sales