59 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Yup, Sean is a"  very good coach " he   "  studies the opposition" . Something no one else does. And the players attitude had absolutely nothing to do with the result.

And not " being arsed" whoever is in charge or what system is used is absolutely unacceptable. 

Has he been out of work since taking Burnley down ? The team that are now apparently playing stylish football that their fans are delighted with ?

Remember when Duncan stepped in at Everton? No tactical changes, just players giving everything for the shirt, the team and the fans.

You must remember his first game ?

Anyway thanks for your reply

It’s a lot easier to play that style in the Championship, the real test for Kompany will be translating that to the Premier League, we’ve seen it all before with Norwich and the like; if they continue to play like that and stay in the Premier League then we’re talking.

Not going to continue down the road with this ‘can’t be arsed’ V’s ‘good coach’ argument, Dyche has a far better record than Duncan and understanding of the game. Clearly Frank-bias and Dyche public image is clouding your judgment.

Sean Dyche is a good motivator and able to get most of out limited players, we didn't see Everton players work that much for Lampard. He's never going to be an attraction for bigger teams who demand more in style of football. The way Everton played on the weekend, they will easily get a point off us if not more.

38 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Sean Dyche took Burnley to the 7th and the Europa League, on a much smaller budget than Brighton

True. My point is that it was the players actually giving everything that was the difference, not the supposed genius of Dyche's tactics v Arsenal. 

And giving everything should be the norm , not when players fancy it.  It's a shame that only the Watford's and Burnley's have employed him though. 😆😆😆

 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

So thats brighton and shows if I am looking at it properly that Potter outperformed RDZ to which I guess one response is Brighton lost trossard and cucurella even so its interesting. How about Potter at Chelsea though, maybe compared to the same number of games under Tuchel? Clearly RDZ at Brighton is outperforming Potter at Chelsea at least based on position in the table. Stats only get you so far but like I say there has to be some objective measure of whether a manager is doing a good job. It can't all be about "the team looks good/bad" or Potter changes formation.... 

Having said that when you swap Cucurella for Lewis Hall you can't play the same way, your defence will improve a lot but Cucu just isn't going to the bye line and putting in crosses, so you have to play through the middle or let the left winger do the damage. 

13 hours ago, ducavis said:

Ruben Amorim

I thought he turned us down. Might be a good shout, but dont k ow enough about how good he is even after doing wonders at Sporting.

1 hour ago, The Rising Sun said:

True. My point is that it was the players actually giving everything that was the difference, not the supposed genius of Dyche's tactics v Arsenal. 

And giving everything should be the norm , not when players fancy it.  It's a shame that only the Watford's and Burnley's have employed him though. 😆😆😆

 

True but I can see him doing a great job with Everton given their resources, maybe even a top 6 finish eventually

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Apparently we have hired, on a short term deal, the New Zeland Rugby back to back world cup winning mental development coach to help formulate a winning mentality in the new group.

I guess the manager/coach is supposed to do this? The manager/coach is supposed to handle the player management. But Potter has out sourced it.  wow.

At the centre of Enoka's philosophy is for every player to take responsibility for their actions.
I guess this responsibility does not apply to Potter and has brought in someone else to do part of his job?
There was talk of weekly paint ball sessions, but Potter thought that that would be too aggressive and opted for the mentality coach instead.

Enoka would make New Zealand's players take turns to sweep the changing rooms after games to ensure that big egos didn't detract from the team's culture.

In this new "sweeper" system Which Chelsea players will be the best with a broom?

If it were me [and considering the salaries these players] I would out source the sweeping [like Potter is out sourcing the player mentality management] and I would get one of those vacuum robots. My turn to sweep the floor?  I would bring in a Top of the line Roomba.

 

3 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Sean Dyche is a good motivator and able to get most of out limited players, we didn't see Everton players work that much for Lampard. He's never going to be an attraction for bigger teams who demand more in style of football. The way Everton played on the weekend, they will easily get a point off us if not more.

To be fair, it's not as if that style of football doesn't work at top level. Simeone managed to win the league with it in 2014 back when Messi and Ronaldo were in their prime, along with getting to 2 Champions League finals and winning La Liga again in 2021.

7 hours ago, ozboy said:

So thats brighton and shows if I am looking at it properly that Potter outperformed RDZ to which I guess one response is Brighton lost trossard and cucurella even so its interesting. How about Potter at Chelsea though, maybe compared to the same number of games under Tuchel? Clearly RDZ at Brighton is outperforming Potter at Chelsea at least based on position in the table. Stats only get you so far but like I say there has to be some objective measure of whether a manager is doing a good job. It can't all be about "the team looks good/bad" or Potter changes formation.... 

Having said that when you swap Cucurella for Lewis Hall you can't play the same way, your defence will improve a lot but Cucu just isn't going to the bye line and putting in crosses, so you have to play through the middle or let the left winger do the damage. 

Potter 5 wins, 4 draws, 5 losses 14 GF 12 GA

Tuchel 6 wins 4 draws 4 losses. 20 GF 19 GA

Brighton were 4th when Potter left, they aren't 4th now. So they aren't doing better under RDZ. They are doing broadly the same. And so are we. Because it isn't that easy to completely transform a club. In a few months. 

We have solved how to stop conceding, we need to solve how to score goals. Brighton have basically just been the same as when Potter left. It'll be interesting what happens to them next year. 

Edited February 7, 20232 yr by bisright1

13 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Apparently we have hired, on a short term deal, the New Zeland Rugby back to back world cup winning mental development coach to help formulate a winning mentality in the new group.

Short term deal... is Todd expecting miracles  ?

7 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

I guess the manager/coach is supposed to do this? The manager/coach is supposed to handle the player management. But Potter has out sourced it.  wow.

At the centre of Enoka's philosophy is for every player to take responsibility for their actions.
I guess this responsibility does not apply to Potter and has brought in someone else to do part of his job?
There was talk of weekly paint ball sessions, but Potter thought that that would be too aggressive and opted for the mentality coach instead.

Enoka would make New Zealand's players take turns to sweep the changing rooms after games to ensure that big egos didn't detract from the team's culture.

In this new "sweeper" system Which Chelsea players will be the best with a broom?

If it were me [and considering the salaries these players] I would out source the sweeping [like Potter is out sourcing the player mentality management] and I would get one of those vacuum robots. My turn to sweep the floor?  I would bring in a Top of the line Roomba.

 

 

 

A lot of managers/coaches bring in "guest speakers" to change things up in training sessions, we also have coaches with expertise in many different fields. The best managers surround themselves with the best coaches, ones he can trust and use. They arent expected to run the whole thing on their own anymore. If you look at Fergie, pretty much accepted as one of the greatest football managers of all time, he barely took training sessions, had coaches running all aspects of it as he overlooked the whole thing. This is basically no different to the defensive coach, attacking coach, set piece coach etc.

Not going to draw any major conclusions from it but I don't think i've heard of any other top club where the winning mentality isn't supposed to come from the manager. I assume Ferguson didn't worry about bringing in a coach to instill "winning mentality" as he was the biggest winner of them all himself. Same goes for Mourinho, Conte and Tuchel here and Pep, Klopp etc.

James next season after chilling with that new coach:

 

13 hours ago, Term_X said:

It’s a lot easier to play that style in the Championship, the real test for Kompany will be translating that to the Premier League, we’ve seen it all before with Norwich and the like; if they continue to play like that and stay in the Premier League then we’re talking.

Not going to continue down the road with this ‘can’t be arsed’ V’s ‘good coach’ argument, Dyche has a far better record than Duncan and understanding of the game. Clearly Frank-bias and Dyche public image is clouding your judgment.

In fact I like Dyche, but to ignore players giving everything with passion and desire  when obviously they should do  that regardless and then claiming it was all down to a tactical master class from Dyche and nothing else ?

Really?

4 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

In fact I like Dyche, but to ignore players giving everything with passion and desire  when obviously they should do  that regardless and then claiming it was all down to a tactical master class from Dyche and nothing else ?

Really?

Players mentality is all down to the managers mate. How many times have we seen that in football? We nearly got relegated in 15/16 with some of the best players in the world because they had lost all confidence in the manager and the next season they become Champions again with more or less the same players. Same story towards the end with Lampard and many others.

They aren't robots. If they have confidence in the manager and put in a structure where they can perform they will perform. If they are not confident in the coach and have to play in new systems every single week with none of them working they won't. It's quite simple.

Edited February 7, 20232 yr by OriginalS

40 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Not going to draw any major conclusions from it but I don't think i've heard of any other top club where the winning mentality isn't supposed to come from the manager. I assume Ferguson didn't worry about bringing in a coach to instill "winning mentality" as he was the biggest winner of them all himself. Same goes for Mourinho, Conte and Tuchel here and Pep, Klopp etc.

What do you think Sports science departments do?

10 minutes ago, dkw said:

What do you think Sports science departments do?

Well, as far as i'm aware that's a big area for every modern football club. Not going to claim I know the ins and outs of such a department but I would assume it involves analyzing a whole lot of data both in terms of recovery, preparation, performance and so on.

Which is clearly a good thing. But I would say that the "norm" for clubs that win trophies is that the manager who makes the competitive decisions both in terms of preparing the players and executing the game-plans needs to be the biggest winner of them all. Maybe it could work out but the idea of bringing in an outside consultant to install "winning mentality" in a side when he's not the one in charge of them either at the training ground or for the games sounds odd to me.

Haven't you been of that opinion before? That the mentality of the side starts with the manager? Not going to hold you too that as I could be very wrong though.

Edited February 7, 20232 yr by OriginalS

55 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

In fact I like Dyche, but to ignore players giving everything with passion and desire  when obviously they should do  that regardless and then claiming it was all down to a tactical master class from Dyche and nothing else ?

Really?

Well, considering this started from giving Dyche zero credit, fire is naturally going to be fought with fire on the subject, of course player motivations come into play, I agree with you, but not every manager incites a bounce; there is a lot of analysis out there dissecting the Arsenal game if you don’t wanna take my word for it. 😅

4 hours ago, dkw said:

A lot of managers/coaches bring in "guest speakers" to change things up in training sessions, we also have coaches with expertise in many different fields. The best managers surround themselves with the best coaches, ones he can trust and use. They arent expected to run the whole thing on their own anymore. If you look at Fergie, pretty much accepted as one of the greatest football managers of all time, he barely took training sessions, had coaches running all aspects of it as he overlooked the whole thing. This is basically no different to the defensive coach, attacking coach, set piece coach etc.

Aha, yes, Coaches hire other specialist coaches.  I understand that.  But this is slightly different.  Would Ferguson or Jose or Conte hire a coach to install the "winning mentality"?  That is surely part of the primary - Head coach job ?  After all, At the centre of Enoka's philosophy is for everyone to take responsibility for their actions. 

Maybe our players are paying for their sins in their previous lives? I mean you gotta be willing try different approaches.

Should we hire guest speakers from the beyond?

Edited February 7, 20232 yr by TheCeleryKing

I don't see the issue or scepticism around this. Chelsea fans as a collective on here, down the pub, in the ground have complained about the mentality of some of our players in this squad, and it has been a common theme that managers have raised going back to when Conte was here which was 5 years ago now. If this new fella comes in and kicks a few people up the arse, and helps change their mentality and helps reduce any toxicity in the atmosphere, then that can only be a positive in the long run. As I say, it is something that we have all noticed and complained about over the years - so good for the club trying to do something to sort it out.

I know plenty of people are saying it comes from the manager, but this is an issue that Conte, Sarri, Lampard, and Tuchel have all raised and were for the most part unable to resolve during their time here. Most of these managers brought us some level of success, but they still all publicly questioned the mentality of the players at one point or another. 

The bulk of this squad won the Champions league 2 years ago, Raheem Sterling comes as a 4 or 5 time Premier League Winner, Felix has won the league in Spain - so we know that a lot of these players do possess that "winning" mentality. The issues for me are more players downing tools when things are not going their way or being as good as beaten when they go a goal down, and too many people playing as individuals rather than as part of a team. If Potter and this fella can work together to weed some of these issues out, then I don't see how this can be a bad thing.

The mentality of these players has been questioned for a long time, it is not a problem unique to Potter's management but in my eyes it's a good thing that he and Boehly are actively trying to do something to alter those ego's and mentalities.

13 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Aha, yes, Coaches hire other specialist coaches.  I understand that.  But this is slightly different.  Would Ferguson or Jose or Conte hire a coach to install the "winning mentality"?  That is surely part of the primary - Head coach job ?  After all, At the centre of Enoka's philosophy is for everyone to take responsibility for their actions. 

Maybe our players are paying for their sins in their previous lives? I mean you gotta be willing try different approaches.

Should we hire guest speakers from the beyond?

Its literally what the sports science department does, which every top club has. 

So Klopp does it for example - https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/03/jurgen-klopp-hails-mindset-masters-for-giving-liverpool-incredibly-important-edge/

first google link from "football club brings in mental strength coach"

Allardyce did it at Everton - https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2017/12/4/16731666/sam-allardyce-everton-manager-sports-psychologist-premier-league-mental-strength

Link from the sports excellence website - https://www.sport-excellence.co.uk/football-psychology/#:~:text=Conflict management%2C dealing with relationship,game to the next level

 

Nice little bit of night time reading for you here-  chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585344f1bebafbe99c862a39/t/58812e151e5b6c14199f25a1/1484860950003/Football.pdf

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

James next season after chilling with that new coach:

 

It's a better look than taking the knee I guess ... maybe they can do both ?

22 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its literally what the sports science department does, which every top club has. 

So Klopp does it for example - https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/03/jurgen-klopp-hails-mindset-masters-for-giving-liverpool-incredibly-important-edge/

first google link from "football club brings in mental strength coach"

Allardyce did it at Everton - https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2017/12/4/16731666/sam-allardyce-everton-manager-sports-psychologist-premier-league-mental-strength

Link from the sports excellence website - https://www.sport-excellence.co.uk/football-psychology/#:~:text=Conflict management%2C dealing with relationship,game to the next level

 

Nice little bit of night time reading for you here-  chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585344f1bebafbe99c862a39/t/58812e151e5b6c14199f25a1/1484860950003/Football.pdf

This seems more in the directions of sports psychologists no?

Enoka seems to be a much broader recruitment and put in charge of changing the entire culture at the club which doesn't strike me as a great idea.
This quote here for example "We look for early warning signs and wean the big egos out pretty quickly. Out motto is, if you can't change the people, change the people"

Is he going to have the power to get rid of players as well if he doesn't fancy them? 

Also here from the man himself. It will be interesting to see but I remain wary of how well it will go down that a complete outsider will come in a "straighten everyone out". Maybe it will work these days as the squad is very different from what it used to be but I certainly don't think the seniors 10 years ago would have had any time for him...

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 20232 yr by OriginalS

Personally, I think it's great that Potter/Todd/Eghbali is trying something different. 

I don't care if Potter brings in the tea lady to give halftime speeches as long as it wins us the games. 

24 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

This seems more in the directions of sports psychologists no?

Enoka seems to be a much broader recruitment and put in charge of changing the entire culture at the club which doesn't strike me as a great idea.
This quote here for example "We look for early warning signs and wean the big egos out pretty quickly. Out motto is, if you can't change the people, change the people"

Is he going to have the power to get rid of players as well if he doesn't fancy them? 

Also here from the man himself. It will be interesting to see but I remain wary of how well it will go down that a complete outsider will come in a "straighten everyone out". Maybe it will work these days as the squad is very different from what it used to be but I certainly don't think the seniors 10 years ago would have had any time for him...

 

 

 

He's only been hired on a short term consultancy role, so very much doubt that he has any power with regards to actually getting rid of players though.

More likely he will work with all of the players individually and as a team, and if there are any players he deems a "lost cause", make that known to Potter and Boehly and then they decide what to do with them next in the summer. 

You're right, the senior players wouldn't have taken to him 10 years ago, but that group of players wouldn't have needed something like this in the first place.