8 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Hate how Frank is getting attacked on Social Media. Is he the best manager in the world? Probably not but the performances are not 100% because of him. He simply just took over a squad of 30+ players on poor form with half of them wanting to leave and the other half wanting the season to end. It would be very hard for any interim manager to get anything out of these players. Frank's goal for the rest of the season should be to steady the ship and hope we drop as little points as possible.

But it was always going to happen and why he was on a hiding to nothing unless he could get a few results which he hasn't been able to do. Totally understandable how rival fans are taking the piss as we would be doing exactly the same if it was Stevie G at Liverpool or Keane or Neville at Utd. Shame some CFC have turned on him but his managerial record does make pretty poor reading and he isn't helping himself with recent team selections.

13 minutes ago, Nibs said:

But it was always going to happen and why he was on a hiding to nothing unless he could get a few results which he hasn't been able to do. Totally understandable how rival fans are taking the piss as we would be doing exactly the same if it was Stevie G at Liverpool or Keane or Neville at Utd. Shame some CFC have turned on him but his managerial record does make pretty poor reading and he isn't helping himself with recent team selections.

Absolutely. Love him to bits but he is a woeful manager who's a manager in the first place because of who he is and what he achieved as a player.  

Let's call a spade a spade.

The only thing I regret is that he has been found out and might not get any big or even decent club to manage again. 

He had to repair his reputation and this job has just shown that his achievements first time around might have been due to the benefits of a Sarri team and system still in play though he modified that. 

And to those that say I shouldn't take away anything from his achievements, I'm not. It does happen. We can't dissociate our successes especially what we became known as.... a gritty, hard to play against, defensive juggernaut of a team from Mourinho MK1 long after he had left. He instilled that in us and because the nucleus of that team stayed in place for a while it was embedded. 

17 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Yeah shocking isn't it, almost as bad as someone discrediting our past Premier League and Champions League wins. 

Short-term glory vs long-term planning though.....

The 2 are not comparable.

Potter laid the foundations at Brighton for a well run club, that lives within its means, plays decent football and was generally on the up.

We have had recent success (e.g UCL, club WC win) DESPITE not being well run, not planning for the future, and under Tuchel, Lamps, Sarri - playing awful football, that got results.

 

If our aim is for the short term glory, at the expense of all else, then fine - we can give credit where credit is due. We hit that target....but at what cost? Looking at us now, that focus on short term results, rather than setting us up with a solid foundation, has well and truly come back to bite us in the ass.

 

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

I know he's not without his faults, but I would take Pickford over Kepa & Mendy, every day of the week.

Agreed - would be a decent signing

5 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Potter laid the foundations at Brighton for a well run club

Not true at all. The foundations was laid well before anyone had even heard of Potter, nevermind him being hired by Brighton.

Tony Bloom is the man who's done that since he took over the club in 2009 when Brighton found themselves in a relegation fight in League One. Bloom and the recruitment staff and scouts are the magic ingredients at that club.

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

Not true at all. The foundations was laid well before anyone had even heard of Potter, nevermind him being hired by Brighton.

Tony Bloom is the man who's done that since he took over the club in 2009 when Brighton found themselves in a relegation fight in League One. Bloom and the recruitment staff and scouts are the magic ingredients at that club.

It is true.

A host of football people acknowledge the strong work of Potter to lay those foundations. Potter left Brighton, leaving behind a cohesive squad of players who were trained with the right skills, characteristics, and mental fitness, to be brave and play a good style of football.... including De Zerbi: https://www.reuters.com/article/soccer-england-brh-idINL4N30R3AA

 

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It is true.

A host of football people acknowledge the strong work of Potter to lay those foundations. Potter left Brighton, leaving behind a cohesive squad of players who were trained with the right skills, characteristics, and mental fitness, to be brave and play a good style of football.... including De Zerbi: https://www.reuters.com/article/soccer-england-brh-idINL4N30R3AA

 

Well, yes. His predecessor, Chris Hughton, anyone?

8 minutes ago, dermott said:

Well, yes. His predecessor, Chris Hughton, anyone?

"....by his predecessor Graham Potter who before his departure to Chelsea.

Potter earned a glowing reputation as a visionary coach at Brighton due to his flexible style, innovative coaching methods and attention to detail and De Zerbi said he was ready to help the fourth-placed club improve further.

“For me it’s very easy to start work at Brighton because I know the work done by Potter before me,” Italian De Zerbi told reporters"

8 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Short-term glory vs long-term planning though.....

The 2 are not comparable.

Potter laid the foundations at Brighton for a well run club, that lives within its means, plays decent football and was generally on the up.

We have had recent success (e.g UCL, club WC win) DESPITE not being well run, not planning for the future, and under Tuchel, Lamps, Sarri - playing awful football, that got results.

 

If our aim is for the short term glory, at the expense of all else, then fine - we can give credit where credit is due. We hit that target....but at what cost? Looking at us now, that focus on short term results, rather than setting us up with a solid foundation, has well and truly come back to bite us in the ass.

 

Potter wasn't short-term or long-term, it was wrong term. We would've wasted years of development on a bang average manager who's done nothing in the game. 

Project managers still have to show something reasonable to get the fans and board's backing to showcase that things will eventually work out in the future. Potter has lowered the standards at this club to the worst point in almost 30 years. The fact that people seriously keep clinging onto a good few chances against Aston Villa, a game that we lost... Goes to show how massively the standards have dropped. 

And Frank Lampard being utter sh*te doesn't prove anything you've said about Potter, I'm sorry to say. I would say give it another season first and see how we do under Pochettino.

Edited April 28, 20233 yr by Victor90

15 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Potter wasn't short-term or long-term, it was wrong term. We would've wasted years of development on a bang average manager who's done nothing in the game. 

Project managers still have to show something reasonable to get the fans and board's backing to showcase that things will eventually work out in the future. Potter has lowered the standards at this club to the worst point in almost 30 years. The fact that people seriously keep clinging onto a good few chances against Aston Villa, a game that we lost... Goes to show how massively the standards have dropped. 

And Frank Lampard being utter sh*te doesn't prove anything you've said about Potter, I'm sorry to say. I would say give it another season first and see how we do under Pochettino.

We will never know how the long-term would have looked under the Potterer. By the end we were playing decent stuff (at times), and there were small signs of progress. I accept that the progress was not rapid, but then I always said it would be a slow painful struggle, and that fans needed to look at the small wins in the first instance, as the likelihood of a monumental quick step forward was always far fetched. 

I dont think recognising the task at hand and noticing the incremental steps forward, such as the performances against Milan and Dortmund, the increased chances created, the increased speed in which we were moving the ball forward etc), shows standards have dropped. Instead, it shows a candid and realistic assessment of the state of the club and a commensurate managing of expectations.

What is clear is that Potter had a monumental task. Whoever comes in will also have a hard job (if not quite as hard as Potter as they will have a pre season, no world cup, and no 7 new young players to integrate). So I think IF we continue with the hard reset of our squad and mentality, that progress will be slow for whoever.

What I dont want is a return to short term thinking, win now at all costs mentality. Going back to Tuchel esque football and short termism should not be our way forward.

 

 

12 hours ago, abister1 said:

Absolutely. Love him to bits but he is a woeful manager who's a manager in the first place because of who he is and what he achieved as a player.  

Let's call a spade a spade.

The only thing I regret is that he has been found out and might not get any big or even decent club to manage again. 

He had to repair his reputation and this job has just shown that his achievements first time around might have been due to the benefits of a Sarri team and system still in play though he modified that. 

And to those that say I shouldn't take away anything from his achievements, I'm not. It does happen. We can't dissociate our successes especially what we became known as.... a gritty, hard to play against, defensive juggernaut of a team from Mourinho MK1 long after he had left. He instilled that in us and because the nucleus of that team stayed in place for a while it was embedded. 

Lamps first season with  us took us to  4th place, behind 3rd place only on goal difference. Reached a Cup Final , all under a transfer embargo and as his first EPL job.

Next season we bought a load of sh*te for him but we were top in December before the team inexplicably stopped playing for him.

It's really not that bad is it ?

As for Everton, he kept them up but they are beyond help for ANY manager to be fair.

I remember him for that first season and seeing our young academy players in the first team , the atmosphere around the stadium was brilliant, even when we lost .

He shouldn't have agreed to step in this time , he was best to stay away from the circus

 

45 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

We will never know how the long-term would have looked under the Potterer. By the end we were playing decent stuff (at times), and there were small signs of progress. I accept that the progress was not rapid, but then I always said it would be a slow painful struggle, and that fans needed to look at the small wins in the first instance, as the likelihood of a monumental quick step forward was always far fetched. 

I dont think recognising the task at hand and noticing the incremental steps forward, such as the performances against Milan and Dortmund, the increased chances created, the increased speed in which we were moving the ball forward etc), shows standards have dropped. Instead, it shows a candid and realistic assessment of the state of the club and a commensurate managing of expectations.

What is clear is that Potter had a monumental task. Whoever comes in will also have a hard job (if not quite as hard as Potter as they will have a pre season, no world cup, and no 7 new young players to integrate). So I think IF we continue with the hard reset of our squad and mentality, that progress will be slow for whoever.

What I dont want is a return to short term thinking, win now at all costs mentality. Going back to Tuchel esque football and short termism should not be our way forward.

 

 

I think we know enough that he had the worst statistical run since Roman bought the club, even years before then. 

There's no reason why we should've been 10th all season, we were good enough to still be in the mix. If Potter had us up there challenging for top 4 like all the managers previous he would've got that chance. But it was a flipping disaster and he did himself no favours, he deserved to get the sack.

Sarri made crazy changes to our system and it would've taken time to see if he can get the team challenging for the title, but he still did enough in his first year to warrant a second year because we got top 4 and we won the Europa League. 

You talk about short-termism, nobody expected Potter to challenge for the league this season did they, nobody even expected him to win a trophy, his bare minimum was to show some progress and get the players performing. He failed on that, and our league position and results showed that. 

I'm willing to give Pochettino a chance, I don't expect a top 4 finish next season with the way things have been. But if he's got us 10th place in the exact same dilemma then you can bet I won't want him here. Of course there are deeper problems at this club, but there's absolutely no excuse for us to be 11th in the league with more goals conceded than scored. I'm not interested in the 1000 excuses for Potter, Tuchel wasn't allowed the same excuses last season when he had a ridiculous fixture congestion and an injury crisis halfway through the season. Nobody on this forum asked for Lampard as an interim manager, I thought we would get someone experienced to steady the ship for next season. Instead we get a worse manager than Potter, and low and behold, we're playing even worse. 

Is Pochettino really going back to short-term success? No, it isn't. And Pochettino on paper has a far better resume than Potter does, so he actually deserves a run at this more than Potter ever did. 

Just wondering if we could replace the first word of this thread title with the words Please Go.....

 

Will always be a legend though.

Frank has enhanced his reputation for me as a club legend, he came back to us with a long shot of getting further in the Champions league and with a group of players who don't know what a goal is. 

He stepped back into the hot seat while swilling from a poisoned chalice so toxic there was probably no one else willing to do it. Kudos, the man has broad shoulders and a team of misfits that wouldn't fit through a square peg in a round hole. 

Thank you Sir Frank Lampard. Our club is a mess and as far as im concerned Lamps can stand tall. A thankless task leading us at the moment and while the results didnt materialise, at least we had a legend leading us to the end of season. 

Super Super Frank... 

3 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Frank has enhanced his reputation for me as a club legend, he came back to us with a long shot of getting further in the Champions league and with a group of players who don't know what a goal is. 

He stepped back into the hot seat while swilling from a poisoned chalice so toxic there was probably no one else willing to do it. Kudos, the man has broad shoulders and a team of misfits that wouldn't fit through a square peg in a round hole. 

Thank you Sir Frank Lampard. Our club is a mess and as far as im concerned Lamps can stand tall. A thankless task leading us at the moment and while the results didnt materialise, at least we had a legend leading us to the end of season. 

Super Super Frank... 

This is a great take. We could have hired Pep or Carlo and still been rubbish because the rot is at board level. 

Good on Frank for coming in to help. Does nothing to dent him either as a player or a manager here. His 4th place with a transfer ban playing the kids remains one of the most fun Chelsea seasons in recent memory.

Looking like 0 - 6 for Frank, must be a thankless task his job, get to be Chelsea's coach, a usually prestigious position, but at the very worst time in their recent history by far with a grossly overpopulated and completely disinterested squad, and a losing streak a mile long that looks like its gonna be 10 miles longer come season's end. All the while knowing your  reputation as a 1st team coach is going down the sh*tter along with yesterday's brekkie. Cant imagine it must be much fun to say the least, so I tend to agree with 'olderschool' rather than call him a mug and slag off the job he's (not) doing. Perhaps a little empathy for our record goal scorer should be the order of the next match day (a hiding to nothing at the Camel Dome) !

4 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Frank has enhanced his reputation for me as a club legend, he came back to us with a long shot of getting further in the Champions league and with a group of players who don't know what a goal is. 

He stepped back into the hot seat while swilling from a poisoned chalice so toxic there was probably no one else willing to do it. Kudos, the man has broad shoulders and a team of misfits that wouldn't fit through a square peg in a round hole. 

Thank you Sir Frank Lampard. Our club is a mess and as far as im concerned Lamps can stand tall. A thankless task leading us at the moment and while the results didnt materialise, at least we had a legend leading us to the end of season. 

Super Super Frank... 

 

49 minutes ago, General said:

Looking like 0 - 6 for Frank, must be a thankless task his job, get to be Chelsea's coach, a usually prestigious position, but at the very worst time in their recent history by far with a grossly overpopulated and completely disinterested squad, and a losing streak a mile long that looks like its gonna be 10 miles longer come season's end. All the while knowing your  reputation as a 1st team coach is going down the sh*tter along with yesterday's brekkie. Cant imagine it must be much fun to say the least, so I tend to agree with 'olderschool' rather than call him a mug and slag off the job he's (not) doing. Perhaps a little empathy for our record goal scorer should be the order of the next match day (a hiding to nothing at the Camel Dome) !

Far too sensible posts these are.

6 hours ago, Victor90 said:

I think we know enough that he had the worst statistical run since Roman bought the club, even years before then. 

There's no reason why we should've been 10th all season, we were good enough to still be in the mix. If Potter had us up there challenging for top 4 like all the managers previous he would've got that chance. But it was a flipping disaster and he did himself no favours, he deserved to get the sack.

Sarri made crazy changes to our system and it would've taken time to see if he can get the team challenging for the title, but he still did enough in his first year to warrant a second year because we got top 4 and we won the Europa League. 

You talk about short-termism, nobody expected Potter to challenge for the league this season did they, nobody even expected him to win a trophy, his bare minimum was to show some progress and get the players performing. He failed on that, and our league position and results showed that. 

I'm willing to give Pochettino a chance, I don't expect a top 4 finish next season with the way things have been. But if he's got us 10th place in the exact same dilemma then you can bet I won't want him here. Of course there are deeper problems at this club, but there's absolutely no excuse for us to be 11th in the league with more goals conceded than scored. I'm not interested in the 1000 excuses for Potter, Tuchel wasn't allowed the same excuses last season when he had a ridiculous fixture congestion and an injury crisis halfway through the season. Nobody on this forum asked for Lampard as an interim manager, I thought we would get someone experienced to steady the ship for next season. Instead we get a worse manager than Potter, and low and behold, we're playing even worse. 

Is Pochettino really going back to short-term success? No, it isn't. And Pochettino on paper has a far better resume than Potter does, so he actually deserves a run at this more than Potter ever did. 

No reason to be 10:  The reason we are 10th is because we are sh*t, with a bloated squad full of players purchased in a random manner, for a succession of different managers without a long term vision. We were playing sh*t under lampard at the end of his first reign. sh*t under Tuchel at the end of last season. sh*t under Tuchel pre season. sh*t under Tuchel at the start of this season. sh*t under Potter for his time here. Tuchel - who many on here pine for also said in public (paraphrasing) that with the players we have, we should expect the same problems (goal scoring) to continue.  Sanctions. New owner. Scattergun buying. New manager. Uninterested players. Overrated players. Bad selections and tactics at times....these are not excuses, but they  are reasons why we are 10th. Potter played a part, but there was a downward trajectory for some time . It has now unraveled.

If Potter had us top 4 he would have had a chance: This is the type of thinking I am critical of.  Unrealistic expectations. I want my wife to win Miss World - not going to happen. I want Gol15 to open his eyes and realise Jorgi isn't the handsome boy he thinks he is - not going to happen. I want double cheeseburger burgers to be calorie negative - not going to happen. You wanted THIS chelsea squad to be top 4 a Was never going to happen.

Sarri: irrelevant what sarri did or didn't do - he wanted to leave. For what it's worth, he had us playing boring sh*te. Go read match day threads at the numbers of people who wanted to gouge their eye out rather than watch his version of chelsea.

Bare minimum was to show some progress and get the players performing: The progress was there on the field. Small slithers admittedly, but there were signs. The biggest progress needed was to start shaping the squad for the long term - getting rid of the players who have not performed for some time (if ever) at chelsea

Willing to support Pochettino:  You say you don't expect him to get top 4,  but you did want / expect potter to get top 4 . You admit there are deep problems at the club but have unrealistic expectations and say there is no "excuse" to be 11th. This is the type of fuzzy thinking that is illogical.  

 

It will be a long painful slog to get us back - if we do it in the right way. The right way is get rid of the deadwood. get rid of the unmotivated, and put in place a long term plan and team for the next x number of years.  If that means more mid table whilst that teams gels and adapts then so be it.  The wrong way is for more short term thinking, systems and signings - in the hope of assuring new money fans who only measure by league standings.

6 hours ago, General said:

Looking like 0 - 6 for Frank, must be a thankless task his job, get to be Chelsea's coach, a usually prestigious position, but at the very worst time in their recent history by far with a grossly overpopulated and completely disinterested squad, and a losing streak a mile long that looks like its gonna be 10 miles longer come season's end. All the while knowing your  reputation as a 1st team coach is going down the sh*tter along with yesterday's brekkie. Cant imagine it must be much fun to say the least, so I tend to agree with 'olderschool' rather than call him a mug and slag off the job he's (not) doing. Perhaps a little empathy for our record goal scorer should be the order of the next match day (a hiding to nothing at the Camel Dome) !

This, there is no positive that you can gain coaching this team. You have two months to improve an under performing team who has nothing to play for and in bad shape physically. 

Yet, people keep throwing so many nonsense criticism at Lamp and some even say just bring the new manager already 😱😱 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

Lamps first season with  us took us to  4th place, behind 3rd place only on goal difference. Reached a Cup Final , all under a transfer embargo and as his first EPL job.

Next season we bought a load of sh*te for him but we were top in December before the team inexplicably stopped playing for him.

 

The team didn't stop playing for him, he changed his view on how we should play and tinkered too much with a formula that helped him a lot during his first season. It's not so hard to get it, Lampard isn't that much of a top manager, he overplayed Tammy while forgetting that Giroud existed till Tammy got injured and he had to remember that he has Giroud, he played Havertz all over the pitch for no reason and he played Kante at the base of the midfield. When he kept it simple during his first season, he did a better job.

10 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

This is a great take. We could have hired Pep or Carlo and still been rubbish because the rot is at board level. 

Good on Frank for coming in to help. Does nothing to dent him either as a player or a manager here. His 4th place with a transfer ban playing the kids remains one of the most fun Chelsea seasons in recent memory.

On the contrary, I think his experience here, tacked on to the disastrous end to his Everton reign could be the death knell for his whole management career. 1 win in his last 19 games or something and it looking pretty bleak for his remaining games.

If this doesn't finish him off, perhaps he could dip into the championship,  get off the radar and try to build a management CV. For the next management job going with owners looking for an enterprising young manager and Frank, Vincent Kompany and Michael Carrick are in the running, what realistically would be Frank's chances.

He'll always be a legend here as a player but like a number of other Chelsea legends, they are just bot cut out for management here.

Edited April 29, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

The reason we are 10th is because we are sh*t, with a bloated squad full of players purchased in a random manner,

If Potter was entirely overruled and was wholly against us bringing in so many players in January, taking our squad size to 31 players I would actually agree with you here.

But for me it's pretty clear he was involved in that process as "collaboriation" between coaches, directors and owners played a huge part in him getting hired in the first place. I assume a question similar to this came up before we went on that insane splurge in January: "Can we bring in this many players in January and still maintain team morale, top quality training sessions at Cobham and competitive performance on the pitch?"

They must have considered that question and concluded that yes we can. Now we obviously know that wasn't the case and not only did it screw up our season (not just January of course) it also leaves us in a desperate situation for this summer. Because right now about 35-40 first-team players will rock to Cobham for our first training session in pre-season with Nkunku, Gusto, Lukaku, Colwill, Maatsen and Slonina adding to the already massive squad.

No wonder I've seen reports saying just about every player we have is for sale. It's going to have to be a complete firesale and many players will have to be shifted before June 30th so we at least hope to comply with the leagues financial rules. So it's already written that this summer is going to be total chaos as well, for the sake of his career Pochettino would do well to stay far away.

I'd encourage everyone to read the latest Athletic article as well. It paints a picture of complete chaos and unrest. The owners have also managed to divide the squad so that the newest signings need to take a massive paycut of 30-50% because we missed out on Champions League while the players we already had like Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz will keep their full wage which is bound to affect team morale in a terrible way.

Edited April 29, 20233 yr by OriginalS

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

The team didn't stop playing for him, he changed his view on how we should play and tinkered too much with a formula that helped him a lot during his first season. It's not so hard to get it, Lampard isn't that much of a top manager, he overplayed Tammy while forgetting that Giroud existed till Tammy got injured and he had to remember that he has Giroud, he played Havertz all over the pitch for no reason and he played Kante at the base of the midfield. When he kept it simple during his first season, he did a better job.

No, he wasn't a top manager, it takes a few years to get to that level. He was young and managing in the Premier League for the first time.

As for your views on Frank playing Tammy ...

Mourinho is an elite , experienced coach, who saw no problem in buying Tammy from us, while our then new elite German coach brought in Lukaku. Yes Frank failed and didn't know how to fix it. But I lIke to remember him as the coach who kicked down the barrier between the Academy and the first team and reignited the bond between the fans, players, and the club.

Enjoy the weekend mate, cheers

 

 

2 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

No, he wasn't a top manager, it takes a few years to get to that level. He was young and managing in the Premier League for the first time.

As for your views on Frank playing Tammy ...

Mourinho is an elite , experienced coach, who saw no problem in buying Tammy from us, while our then new elite German coach brought in Lukaku. Yes Frank failed and didn't know how to fix it. But I lIke to remember him as the coach who kicked down the barrier between the Academy and the first team and reignited the bond between the fans, players, and the club.

Enjoy the weekend mate, cheers

 

 

I have never had a problem with Tammy, he was a good poacher for us. I just didn't like that Frankie overplayed him, he could have saved him a bit. Cheers.

Tammy was always an odd striker given his physique and yet he did not use his physique to it's strength.

I also think the refs were harsh on him here in the EPL letting teams wrestle him off the ball without winning frre-kicks.

I was looking to see how he would progress in Serie A - stats this season - 31 Apps, goals 7, assists 3, yellow cards 2.

In no way obvious that we were wrong to sell him.