3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

In don't want to turn this thread into enzo thread so let's talk more about general football. 

Let's say we play a double pivot. CM1 + CM2. 

If cm1 want to roam around and move everywhere, CM2 need to cover for him. This is kinda basic football. 

So when you try to pick a player to be that CM2, you probably don't want him to be a lampard. You probably want a jorgi (a more athletic version of jorgi will be better). It kinda make me wonder whether @Gol15has watched jorgi played. 😁😁

 

 

But to throw a spanner in the works here, I think there are some games where absolutely Enzo should play lone DM. If we're going to play against sides that will throw ten men behind the ball, then playing Enzo as DM with a back line made up from Badiashile, Colwill, Fofana and Chalobah is a good idea to get an extra body in attack. Pochettino had this often at Spurs and Southampton with a CB stepping well into midfield to allow the actual midfielders to press and attack much higher up the pitch.

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

But to throw a spanner in the works here, I think there are some games where absolutely Enzo should play lone DM. If we're going to play against sides that will throw ten men behind the ball, then playing Enzo as DM with a back line made up from Badiashile, Colwill, Fofana and Chalobah is a good idea to get an extra body in attack. Pochettino had this often at Spurs and Southampton with a CB stepping well into midfield to allow the actual midfielders to press and attack much higher up the pitch.

Agree. I think how to to best utilize Enzo in term of what is best for Chelsea is an interesting discussion especially like you said if we talk about game to game basis. 

However, my point was more about making enzo to be THE guy. I am not sure he is ready but @Gol15think he is already wc. Usually if you want somebody to be the guy, you let him have more freedom. In doing so, you need somebody else covering for him. So I was just confused, why he refused to have somebody who will cover for enzo and why he compare Enzo to Rodri. 

 

Edited June 9, 20233 yr by Bob stark

On 09/06/2023 at 03:41, SydneyChelsea said:

Fernandez has never played as a lone DM which is seemingly what you are arguing, At River Plate, he had Zuculini, for Argentina he had De Paul and at Benfica he had Florentino Luis,  meaning he has always played with a more defensive central midfielder. 

Given the above, it's a bit harsh of you to accuse someone else of not watching Fernandez. 

Chelsea is the first time he has played the most defensive midfielder, and people rightly point out it is a waste of his attacking talents and over-exposes his defensive shortcomings. It is not about him needing a player to "babysit" him, it's about giving him a platform to be something more.

Your first point is great, but your reasoning to try and support it is wrong. I have no idea where those numbers come from but they suggest that Fernandez gets dribbled past more than twice as much as Rodri on average per game. Over the course of a season, that means that Fernandez gets dribbled past 96 times compared to Rodri's 30 times which is obviously a very significant difference. But put in context, given that Rodri plays for a far more dominant team that is less likely to be counter-attacked, as opposed to Enzo who was often sole defender while we pushed forward in search of a goal, you can see how dribbled past percentages are not that helpful a stat.

Who said he played as a lone DM to begin with? You're thinking that he's supposed to be our KDB, you obviously didn't watch him play, simple as that. The comparison to Rodri is only to show where he plays, not that he doesn't need anyone around him, I have said multiple times that anyone that watched him play should know he had always options in front of him as the player that is at the base of the midfield, he already plays EXACTLY where he himself wants to play, from day 1 he came here, is that too hard to understand?

I'm arguing he's at the base of the midfield, NOT his partner and the players he played with both in Benfica, Argentina and now for us is a living proof of that, thus there is no reason for any manager to change his position, nor to bring in a player to play in his position as he is world class exactly where he plays.

The difference is significant in those terms when you compare the two but when you actually look at the whole picture and see that Enzo is far more involved in tackles and in general in defensive actions you can actually stop thinking that Enzo isn't good enough defensively so there's that since after all, his tackle percentage is just 6% lower than Rodri but while being far more involved in tackles to begin with, so with a real structure when Pochettino starts working his percentages will only go up without him needing to change his position at all.

End of.

 

On 09/06/2023 at 01:04, venom2011 said:

Each of those 3 points - where he wants to play, like he did for Benfica, like he did for Argentina - is incorrect. Comparisons to KDB are no more crazy than the above. 

Best comparison for him though would be Xavi. 

 

Not at all, he literally came to play for us and automatically started at the base of the midfield, if it were crazy why did he himself do it? He's the same player, playing the same role and at the same position as he has always done, I know I'm right here since I actually watched him during the World Cup and for Benfica, sorry.

21 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Agree. I think how to to best utilize Enzo in term of what is best for Chelsea is an interesting discussion especially like you said if we talk about game to game basis. 

However, my point was more about making enzo to be THE guy. I am not sure he is ready but @Gol15think he is already wc. Usually if you want somebody to be the guy, you let him have more freedom. In doing so, you need somebody else covering for him. So I was just confused, why he refused to have somebody who will cover for enzo and why he compare Enzo to Rodri. 

 

I'm done arguing about this, our very own World Class 21 year old midfielder actually prefers to play at the base of the midfield and doesn't care about having a player behind him at all, he just like Rodri needs options in front of him in order to play his best game and this is also the modern game.

If you want to hold him back, go ahead and put a babysitter, I just hope Pochettino won't do that mistake but going after how Enzo's previous managers both in the club and national team didn't do that mistake, it won't happen.

First match as Chelsea manager and already wins a trophy. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

First match as Chelsea manager and already wins a trophy. 

Emma will have to hold his hand all season. 

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

Emma will have to hold his hand all season. 

Think even Emma or Pep would struggle if they had Lukaku shoved on them.

9 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

First match as Chelsea manager and already wins a trophy. 

Think that loss yesterday has put the final nail in the coffin on Stormzy's football management career.

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Think even Emma or Pep would struggle if they had Lukaku shoved on them.

I think most people would be crushed to death if the incredible bulk was shoved on them. 

11 minutes ago, just said:

Think that loss yesterday has put the final nail in the coffin on Stormzy's football management career.

Good job we got Pochettino signed up then. 

13 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

First match as Chelsea manager and already wins a trophy. 

The f**ked up thing is is if he lost that game you just know some maniacs would have unironically held it against him.

 

Much better

11 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

 

Much better

 I won’t sleep properly until he comes out and says Lukaku is’nt coming back.

48 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

 

Much better

Very sensible, i think i really like Pochettino. Always knew he was too good for Spurs..

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Very sensible, i think i really like Pochettino. Always knew he was too good for Spurs..

I always liked him. Seemed principled. Levy was a f*ckknuckle.

43 minutes ago, dermott said:

I always liked him. Seemed principled. Levy was a f*ckknuckle.

One thing I did admire about him is while he was evidently frustrated with the transfers (or lack of) at Spurs at the tail end of his tenure he still knuckled down and did his job to the best of his ability.

A certain someone could have learned a thing or two from him there.

 

26 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

6 hours ago, coco said:

 I won’t sleep properly until he comes out and says Lukaku is’nt coming back.

7 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

I like the stance being taken here and its one that Potter probably should have introduced by annexing those players outside of his squad and just working with the 23 - 25 that he wanted.

Presumably this is a ploy to force the hand of the players and agents for those deemed surplus to requirements.  However, this again seems to slightly miss the mark. From all the links that I have seen I haven't seen any instances yet where players are not agreeing deals. So far I have seen at least three or four players, all agreeing personal terms. The delay in trimming the squad lies with the club and their valuation of the players.

In truth I would think that there is only one club in Europe stupid enough to pay 70m for Kai Havertz and they already own him. 

Edited June 13, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I like the stance being taken here and its one that Potter probably should have introduced by annexing those players outside of his squad and just working with the 23 - 25 that he wanted.

Presumably this is a ploy to force the hand of the players and agents for those deemed surplus to requirements.  However, this again seems to slightly miss the mark. From all the links that I have seen I haven't seen any instances yet where players are not agreeing deals. So far I have seen at least three or four players, all agreeing personal terms. The delay in trimming the squad lies with the club and their valuation of the players.

In truth I would think that there is only one club in Europe stupid enough to pay 70m for Kai Havertz and they already own him. 

Honestly this is just nonsense. Even if you tell them to stay home and do nothing, you still have to pay them. 

 

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

Honestly this is just nonsense. Even if you tell them to stay home and do nothing, you still have to pay them. 

 

Well everyone knows that. What is your point.

Surely someone as astute as you can see that the club are trying to force them out by hoping that these players, deep down somewhere would still rather be playing football than being on a golf course on full pay for the next 3 or more years.

38 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Well everyone knows that. What is your point.

Surely someone as astute as you can see that the club are trying to force them out by hoping that these players, deep down somewhere would still rather be playing football than being on a golf course on full pay for the next 3 or more years.

Telling them not to practice achieve nothing. 

Let's say you manage to make them wanting to move. What is next? Are we going to give all this players for nothing? 

Furthermore, if all these player do is sleep and drink at home, it will be difficult to loan them because they won't be in shape. 

 

 

This will force them to actively seek employment elsewhere, as to not do it will mean the end of their footballing careers. They will also have to rethink their personal terms requirements to ensure their careers continue. It will also make their agents actually earn their corn properly for a change, maybe even finding loan deals at reduced wages. Yes there may be some who will sit back and take the money, but only likely the ones nearing retirement, most should want to continue playing. It is then encumbent on the club to not be too over the top on transfer fees, yes their valuation may be too much, but better to shift the deadweight at cost or slight FFP profit, nobody offers the asking price, so just be resonable in negotiatons.