6 hours ago, Argo said:

Palace get a modern coach and like magic instant improvement with Mateta going from a characture to looking like one of the best forwards ITL.

Yep, always rated Glasner. I've been advocating Slot as well. I think he is also someone that can impose his style quickly. That still is high intensity and high pressing football. He's now off to the scouse whilst we continue to faff around whilst we have the faint glimmer of a hope of sneaking a European spot away from those that have been challenging for it for most of the season.

Does anyone know if Poch and the players wages are factored in for failing to make Europe? 

30 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Does anyone know if Poch and the players wages are factored in for failing to make Europe? 

I probably would think so based on how Ted lasso was advocating performance based contracts.

I suspect that’s why Jackson wanted to reach 15 goals probably some performance base season bonus.

They are probably all on performance based bonus for getting into Europe.

2 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

The only way to get something from a young squad is to have a clear philosophy and play free flowing, attacking football.

 

I am confused. If you want free flowing offense, poch is your guy

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Palace get a modern coach and like magic instant improvement with Mateta going from a characture to looking like one of the best forwards ITL.

This idea that no new manager would do well with our players is utter nonsense, its been seen many many times that getting the right manager in can and does make a huge difference. The difficult part is getting the right one, obviously.

21 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Let's be honest. 

In defense of Poch, he's had a massive injury list. What's avaliable is dreadfully bad.

In terms of style of play. We have shown many times this season that we can play great football with good passing especially when we beat the press.

Problem is that we are so inconsistent.

The defenders we have available are terrible. 

Our striker is terrible.

My biggest problem is the midfield. We spent 200m on Enzo and Caicedo. They have really disappointed me at how poor they both are on both sides of the pitch. We should be set in midfield for the money they cost. They should be doing so much better whereby we can worry about building the team around them.

I'm completely lost at how to fix this.

If poch is so bad a better manager can fix this but I doubt that is the solution.

 

 

It is not that difficult to fix. Just play back 3, done.

But then you need to start asking question on what to do with your 100m wingers and all the young wingers that you have signed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It is not that difficult to fix. Just play back 3, done.

But then you need to start asking question on what to do with your 100m wingers and all the young wingers that you have signed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish we could just play 4 3 3 like all the other top teams do. Back 3 doesn't seem sustainable and goes to pot once the opposition have figured it out. 

5 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I wish we could just play 4 3 3 like all the other top teams do. Back 3 doesn't seem sustainable and goes to pot once the opposition have figured it out. 

The vogue at the moment is generally 3-2-4 in attack and 4-3-2-1 in defence. If you squint that's kinda what Poch has been doing with us. 

39 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

The vogue at the moment is generally 3-2-4 in attack and 4-3-2-1 in defence. If you squint that's kinda what Poch has been doing with us. 

 

45 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I wish we could just play 4 3 3 like all the other top teams do. Back 3 doesn't seem sustainable and goes to pot once the opposition have figured it out. 

 

Basic 4231/442 with one winger go inside the other go wide. Potter tried to play 433/4231 and after a while decided this was not working and played 343. 

I think 343 is fine can be boring to watch but it is fine. It is good in this era because teams tend to overload you with 5 attacker. It is easy to match your opp. 

If you want to defend well in 4231/442. You need at least one of your winger to go back and really defend. If both are 😵‍💫😵‍💫 then it is over. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay lets say the club and players want stability in coaching staff which for me sounds perfectly reasonable and smart. Young side, young team, not many experiences together. 

We kick out Pochettino that has clearly got most players in his side. We know Pochettino's weaknesses and his track record. Fine.

We hire the flavour of the month Ruben Amorim. We perform much better right of the bat. We will also lose a ton of games because we have a young side. Amorim injects new energy and we take 8 points more next season and finish 6th. Next season we are better and we finish 4th. Amorim leaves to manage a more advanced project. 

Restart with the flavour of the month coach.

Did we get stability? No.

15 minutes ago, evissy said:

Okay lets say the club and players want stability in coaching staff which for me sounds perfectly reasonable and smart. Young side, young team, not many experiences together. 

We kick out Pochettino that has clearly got most players in his side. We know Pochettino's weaknesses and his track record. Fine.

We hire the flavour of the month Ruben Amorim. We perform much better right of the bat. We will also lose a ton of games because we have a young side. Amorim injects new energy and we take 8 points more next season and finish 6th. Next season we are better and we finish 4th. Amorim leaves to manage a more advanced project. 

Restart with the flavour of the month coach.

Did we get stability? No.

I think they generally like Poch, he seems like a good guy. What I worry about is whether they believe in him. The performance against Arsenal can be described in a lot of different ways, what was especially striking to me was the lack of belief. Fine, missing Palmer was probably part of that - but if you need him to do things on his own to give you a chance, you’re not really trusting too much in yourself, the coach and the tactics. 
This group of players have taken so many hits this season, its no wonder they start to question all the things around them. If they no longer believe Poch is the right man here really is no way back. 
Big IF, I obviously dont know, but that group of players against Arsenal were beaten before the game even started

27 minutes ago, evissy said:

Okay lets say the club and players want stability in coaching staff which for me sounds perfectly reasonable and smart. Young side, young team, not many experiences together. 

We kick out Pochettino that has clearly got most players in his side. We know Pochettino's weaknesses and his track record. Fine.

We hire the flavour of the month Ruben Amorim. We perform much better right of the bat. We will also lose a ton of games because we have a young side. Amorim injects new energy and we take 8 points more next season and finish 6th. Next season we are better and we finish 4th. Amorim leaves to manage a more advanced project. 

Restart with the flavour of the month coach.

Did we get stability? No.

I don't think sacking poch is a big problem however let's say we hire like a better manager I don't know who. 

The 1st thing that he will do is cover this team weakness. 2nd ball, not enough ball retention, not enough protection to backline. 

Simpe solution really, play more controlled, only one direct player up top. Play more player who can defend. 

 

It’s respect and belief that are required not liking. The players didn’t necessarily like red nose. He sold them when they reached their use by date or earlier, but I’m fairly sure they respected his authority and saw that his way worked. 

42 minutes ago, evissy said:

Okay lets say the club and players want stability in coaching staff which for me sounds perfectly reasonable and smart. Young side, young team, not many experiences together. 

We kick out Pochettino that has clearly got most players in his side. We know Pochettino's weaknesses and his track record. Fine.

We hire the flavour of the month Ruben Amorim. We perform much better right of the bat. We will also lose a ton of games because we have a young side. Amorim injects new energy and we take 8 points more next season and finish 6th. Next season we are better and we finish 4th. Amorim leaves to manage a more advanced project. 

Restart with the flavour of the month coach.

Did we get stability? No.

I don't get this at all. Why would a manager take over one of the biggest clubs in the world, be successful in getting the club closer to challenging for trophies/back in the champions league and then leave? When does that ever happen? Where would he even go?

23 minutes ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

I think they generally like Poch, he seems like a good guy. What I worry about is whether they believe in him. The performance against Arsenal can be described in a lot of different ways, what was especially striking to me was the lack of belief. Fine, missing Palmer was probably part of that - but if you need him to do things on his own to give you a chance, you’re not really trusting too much in yourself, the coach and the tactics. 
This group of players have taken so many hits this season, its no wonder they start to question all the things around them. If they no longer believe Poch is the right man here really is no way back. 
Big IF, I obviously dont know, but that group of players against Arsenal were beaten before the game even started

I'll be surprised if the player doesn't believe him, we outplayed city just a couple days ago. 

The defeat vs arsenal is so easy to analyze though if you watch how Coleman and Young play vs us 😁😁

I don't blame the players for liking Poch, he comes across as a nice bloke but a bit of a pushover. There are no top managers in history that haven't been ruthless and Poch doesn't seem to have that trait. Maybe Poch was a good transitional manager to help players bed into English football but next season we can't have a guy like this here, it's time to start performing otherwise we're a bit f**ked.

35 minutes ago, evissy said:

Okay lets say the club and players want stability in coaching staff which for me sounds perfectly reasonable and smart. Young side, young team, not many experiences together. 

We kick out Pochettino that has clearly got most players in his side. We know Pochettino's weaknesses and his track record. Fine.

We hire the flavour of the month Ruben Amorim. We perform much better right of the bat. We will also lose a ton of games because we have a young side. Amorim injects new energy and we take 8 points more next season and finish 6th. Next season we are better and we finish 4th. Amorim leaves to manage a more advanced project. 

Restart with the flavour of the month coach.

Did we get stability? No.

Let's follow your reasoning.

If Amorim gets here and takes us to 6th and then 4th, he doesn't need leave to manage a more advanced project because in two years time he has advanced this project to top 4 and the players have matured in two seasons. So this part of your reasoning does not follow.

If we stick with Pochettino and stay mid table (if not relegation battle) for 5 years for the sake of stability and because he's a likeable guy (to the board and players, because few fans really like him any more), then what? Most quality players would have gone to more advanced projects (as you put it) because they want to win trophies, even if they like Pochettino, and we are nowhere with the project, which would then be considered to have been a total clusterf**k. It just doesn't make sense.

15 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

I don't blame the players for liking Poch, he comes across as a nice bloke but a bit of a pushover. There are no top managers in history that haven't been ruthless and Poch doesn't seem to have that trait. Maybe Poch was a good transitional manager to help players bed into English football but next season we can't have a guy like this here, it's time to start performing otherwise we're a bit f**ked.

I don't think you want poch to be ruthless if you are a fan of Mudyrk

 

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think you want poch to be ruthless if you are a fan of Mudyrk

 

Mate I'm a fan of the player but I'm more a fan of the team, if a manager doesn't rate Mudryk and performs better without him then so be it. 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think sacking poch is a big problem however let's say we hire like a better manager I don't know who. 

The 1st thing that he will do is cover this team weakness. 2nd ball, not enough ball retention, not enough protection to backline. 

Simpe solution really, play more controlled, only one direct player up top. Play more player who can defend. 

 

The problem i find with your simple solutions to everything Bob, is that you rarely factor in the quality (or lack of) of the individuals concerned. Systems and strategies are all well and good but if the players are sh*t at executing these you have two options. Bomb the players or try to coach and improve those that can improve. Naturally some are irredeemable and have to go. Most we are unable to bomb because the clowns have backed us into a corner with the constant commercial own goals and we will struggle to replace these. So we have no option but to try and coach and improve the group that we have and most of us believe that Poch is fundamentally not capable of doing that.

I am firmly of the belief that a better coach with better skills will get a better tune out of this group, playing most of the same players in most of the same positions in pretty much the same system, simply because attention has been spent on improving the individuals' touch, movement and overall performances.

Im kinda sad that we never got an update on how the lemons are going, they probably changed into colours that has never been seen before.

Edited April 25, 20242 yr by DidierDrogbalala

I worry about Conor's tenure at the club if Poch gets the sack. I think the powers above will just see nett profit and sell him before a new manager comes in. He's our second best player and fundamental to the team. His energy pressures the opposition into mistakes and he's flexible. 

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I'll be surprised if the player doesn't believe him, we outplayed city just a couple days ago. 

The defeat vs arsenal is so easy to analyze though if you watch how Coleman and Young play vs us 😁😁

By that I take it you mean Cucu and Mudryk together at the left side is easily exploitable? In that case, surely Poch should set us up differently?

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

The problem i find with your simple solutions to everything Bob, is that you rarely factor in the quality (or lack of) of the individuals concerned. Systems and strategies are all well and good but if the players are sh*t at executing these you have two options. Bomb the players or try to coach and improve those that can improve. Naturally some are irredeemable and have to go. Most we are unable to bomb because the clowns have backed us into a corner with the constant commercial own goals and we will struggle to replace these. So we have no option but to try and coach and improve the group that we have and most of us believe that Poch is fundamentally not capable of doing that.

I am firmly of the belief that a better coach with better skills will get a better tune out of this group, playing most of the same players in most of the same positions in pretty much the same system, simply because attention has been spent on improving the individuals' touch, movement and overall performances.

If we depend on this same player and rely solely on their improvement then we are fkd. 

Forget poch, let's use Klopp, probably the best manager in the world for young player (you can argue pep is a better manager but pep is backed big time by city). 

This is his first lineup, I think they finished 8th in his first season

And this is his monster lineup

It is a completely new team 

 

Edited April 25, 20242 yr by Bob stark

1 minute ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

By that I take it you mean Cucu and Mudryk together at the left side is easily exploitable? In that case, surely Poch should set us up differently?

Yes, Saka vs cucu = dead. 

You can't play Gallagher on the left because you want somebody in the middle to press. If you allow good team easy build up through the middle, you can just surrender the game. 

The best solution I saw is 

Mudryk - Jackson - Madueke 

Cucu - Conor - Enzo - Caicedo 

Badi - Disasi - Alfie 

It is difficult to implement in just 3 days though especially because you need to teach both Madueke n mudryk to press as 10.