26 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

So expect to get relegated? What's happened to the club in 18 months...

We have no god given right to win, be in the premier league or even challenge so let’s get that out the way.

We have been hugely successful in the last 20 years which has spoilt a lot of the newer fans to Chelsea who never saw us suffer before. 

We are in a period a lot of clubs go through and granted we were sanctioned and almost went out of business we are not doing too bad.

Enjoy the season it will get worst before it gets better, don’t let Chelsea ruin your weekend and week!!
 

 

Poch is on a hiding to nothing difficult to ascertain if PSG were correct to sack him because of the squad at Chelsea he has to work with has too many inexperienced players and too many players always injured. This is not a Poch caused squad problem because it was the same all last season with similar performance outcomes.  It’s being set, caused,  call it what you like, it’s appears to be directly attributed to the culture and strategy implemented by Todd & Clearlake.  If this downwards trajectory continues Poch will get sacked especially when Bully figures out the true consequences of getting the club relegated. Luton and Sheffield are the only 2 clubs one can say are worse off on the pitch currently in the division. It’s sad to see how our club that was in 4 cup finals and easily top 6 caliber 2 seasons ago with an elite manager is now a proper shambles and the laughing stock of world club football. 

38 minutes ago, just said:

I'm totally with you here ducavis. But at least @Whats_The_Mata? has finally stopped whining for a moment and put his head above the parapet and actually listed his proven at the highest level "top young players" we should have been signing. Here it is.

"Top under 25 players I'd have expected to have been linked with if we're spending a billion are players like Leao, Wirtz, Gavi, Pedri, Musiala, Napoli winger who's name I can't spell with a K, Oshenheim, Martinelli, Saliba, Camavinga, Saka, Haaland, Mbappe, Vinicus, Rodrygo, Tonali, Bellingham, Tchoumeni, Lautoro Martinez, Valerde, Bastoni, Ousmane Dembele, Muani, Vlahovic etc.

Quality young players that have performed at the highest level and have sky high ceilings".

But how many of these were realistic, credible targets? How many of these would their clubs have been willing to sell? How many would have wanted to actually come? There's a number on his list who in my opinion, aren't yet proven at the highest level. Leao, Dembele (he's 26 by the way), Vlahovic. Would they be a guaranteed  success in the EPL? Tonali is on his list and I think he has made a reasonable start for Newcastle, especially his debut, but nothing to blow your socks off. He was only a sub for them today. 

Where we have made mistakes IMO is that there were proven EPL quality players available who we could have brought in over the past couple of seasons that would have made a difference. Bissouma is one I banged on about constantly when he was at Brighton and he is now tearing it up at Tottenham. Madison was also the right profile of player we could have done with. A player comfortable operating as a genuine 10. Callum Wilson might have done a half decent job up front. And though @axman2526 has never heard of him before James Ward-Prowse also has a bit of quality about him and a great work rate.

OK, they're not super-sexy football superstars, (not all players have to be), and yes, again, it's all in hindsight. But it's way more realistic and credible than simply name checking M'bappe, Haaland, Vinicius, Bellingham, Musiala etc. as players we should have brought. That's just cloud-cuckoo land or playing too much EA Football Manager.

 

 

EPL quality experienced players complimenting a few young players was exactly the way to go. It can’t be overstated just how difficult this league is to become acclimatised, even more experienced players coming in from abroad struggle initially with its physicality. Expecting so many kids and I include our World Cup winner ,who I rate highly, to gel together and compete is unrealistic to the point they may not now achieve their  ceiling expectations.

One minor positive is the plastic glory hunters who jumped onboard when we were successful will disappear now so when we get back to the top we don’t have to deal with them.

Gotta laugh at this. The man wanted to take over last season after Potter. He wrote up a plan and everything. Sad we never got him. He is who I wanted from the start. I think it would be a bad decision to sack Poch when we're so early into the season and the fact is the team needs patience. Not to mention there's nobody else out there lol

 

21 minutes ago, El regreso said:

One minor positive is the plastic glory hunters who jumped onboard when we were successful will disappear now so when we get back to the top we don’t have to deal with them.

We will, it'll be their kids by then

Gets worst before its gets better I see several humbling spanking in this run!!

Newcastle is the prime example why modern football is all about attacking football and the need to play on the front foot from minute 1 and have one thing in mind only - score goals. 

They don't have an elite manager, nor a world class squad. What Howe's done since going there is to switch to an attacking 433 and give the players all the freedom in the world. 

Don't want to sound arrogant, but players such as Barnes, Gordon, Wilson, Almiron, Longstaff, Anderson, Burn, Schar, Willock, Murphy are average players, yet look elite in that environment that Howe has created. Not because of his tactics because he is an average manager as well, but because of the free flowing, attacking style imposed and the freedom he's given to his players to press very high up the pitch and play a direct style of football. 

With Pochettino I feel he is more concerned not to concede and play it safe, control the game and be happy not to lose the game. 

Some people say that stats look good even though we're only on 5 points so far. We're apparently in top 4 in chances created and some other stats. Ok, I get it, but I bet we also look the most boring out of all those clubs at the top of those charts. 

IMHO we look absolutely pathetic given the money invested. Brighton and Newcastle's squads combined I bet still don't come close to our squad's value, yet we look like MK Dons compared to them. 

Such a shame we could not convince Nagelsmann to come here as I believe his gung ho approach would have been perfectly suited to the Premier League and to this young squad.

This is not 2003 anymore where you would have to only worry about two clubs, knowing the other 15-16 are gash and you can play in the 2nd gear and still win 3-0.

Nowadays even clubs like Brighton, Villa, Wolves or West Ham can pay 40-50M on very good players on massive wages and the level of the league as a whole has improved and if you don't score goals and go to difficult away grounds with the plan to attack and score goals, then you have no chance and Chelsea is the prime example of this as for the past years we have been dreadful domestically because of our slow, turgid football and others have come from behind and have surpassed us. 

Clearly we have focused on winning tomorrow far too much, that we have assembled a squad that will struggle to win. 

Injuries have taken a big toll, Pochettino has made some truly mind bending decisions.

With that said we still have a good team when everyone is fit, I think we need to big performers in their prime to compliment the attack. You can maybe have 1 of Jackson, Mudryk, Madueke, or Palmer, certainly cant be relying on 3 of them.

Horrible 18 months. Cant really sack Pochettino, so we got to hope he turns it around and buys himself time so we can fix this squad. 

 

36 minutes ago, petre ispirescu said:

Newcastle is the prime example why modern football is all about attacking football and the need to play on the front foot from minute 1 and have one thing in mind only - score goals. 

They don't have an elite manager, nor a world class squad. What Howe's done since going there is to switch to an attacking 433 and give the players all the freedom in the world. 

Don't want to sound arrogant, but players such as Barnes, Gordon, Wilson, Almiron, Longstaff, Anderson, Burn, Schar, Willock, Murphy are average players, yet look elite in that environment that Howe has created. Not because of his tactics because he is an average manager as well, but because of the free flowing, attacking style imposed and the freedom he's given to his players to press very high up the pitch and play a direct style of football. 

With Pochettino I feel he is more concerned not to concede and play it safe, control the game and be happy not to lose the game. 

Some people say that stats look good even though we're only on 5 points so far. We're apparently in top 4 in chances created and some other stats. Ok, I get it, but I bet we also look the most boring out of all those clubs at the top of those charts. 

IMHO we look absolutely pathetic given the money invested. Brighton and Newcastle's squads combined I bet still don't come close to our squad's value, yet we look like MK Dons compared to them. 

Such a shame we could not convince Nagelsmann to come here as I believe his gung ho approach would have been perfectly suited to the Premier League and to this young squad.

This is not 2003 anymore where you would have to only worry about two clubs, knowing the other 15-16 are gash and you can play in the 2nd gear and still win 3-0.

Nowadays even clubs like Brighton, Villa, Wolves or West Ham can pay 40-50M on very good players on massive wages and the level of the league as a whole has improved and if you don't score goals and go to difficult away grounds with the plan to attack and score goals, then you have no chance and Chelsea is the prime example of this as for the past years we have been dreadful domestically because of our slow, turgid football and others have come from behind and have surpassed us. 

Good post. Interesting that you used 2003 as your example year. Man City finished 16th that year which is where I currently think we'll end up this season.

30 minutes ago, big blue said:

Clearly we have focused on winning tomorrow far too much, that we have assembled a squad that will struggle to win. 

Injuries have taken a big toll, Pochettino has made some truly mind bending decisions.

With that said we still have a good team when everyone is fit, I think we need to big performers in their prime to compliment the attack. You can maybe have 1 of Jackson, Mudryk, Madueke, or Palmer, certainly cant be relying on 3 of them.

Horrible 18 months. Cant really sack Pochettino, so we got to hope he turns it around and buys himself time so we can fix this squad. 

 

I think you can rely on all of the young players as long as you are brave and ready to take risks. 

But when your CB plays at LB, Thiago Silva is still there week in, week out and you have a holding midfielder play as the most advanced one, then I guess you are not ready to take any risks and play it safe, try not to concede first and hopefully a goal will come from an attacking play at some point. Plus the use of average players like Gallagher and Sterling to the point it is not even funny anymore. 

A back four of Chilwell, Colwill, Disasi, Gusto with Enzo and Caicedo in the pivot is more than enough to beat the likes of Forest and Bournemouth. And Villa at home after an European away trip two days prior. Villa played three games in the space of seven or eight days, yet they looked fresher and like the team with a full week to prepare for this match. Not us... 

42 minutes ago, big blue said:

Clearly we have focused on winning tomorrow far too much, that we have assembled a squad that will struggle to win. 

Injuries have taken a big toll, Pochettino has made some truly mind bending decisions.

With that said we still have a good team when everyone is fit, I think we need to big performers in their prime to compliment the attack. You can maybe have 1 of Jackson, Mudryk, Madueke, or Palmer, certainly cant be relying on 3 of them.

 

Mauricio Pochettino on Nicolas Jackson's discipline:

"We were talking, we need to grow up like a team. Nico is young and is feeling the Premier League. Football is about winning but players when they are young need to learn. That is why we feel disappointed. We have too many situations like this."

Good post and Poch seems to agree. We’ve got too many inexperienced players who by definition, will make mistakes as they are still learning. Like you said, if we had one or two them, that would be fine…but when the vast majority of squad are either unknowns or barely played any professional matches, there’s going to be a lot of bumps and disappointments. 
 

Most of us would want Enzo & Caicedo play together, and Palmer as a 10 until we get a few more options back. Enzo is not influencing the game playing where he is right now, and Gallagher offers either attack or defence playing that role. Unfortunately there are no quick fixes, even if the transfer window opens tomorrow. Poch need to ride this out, I reckon players and fans are still with him, the fans dissent is mostly with you know who

Good tweet by Matt Law:

“One PL win this season, two since Potter was sacked and beaten nobody of note in top flight since Spurs in Jan 2022 - there’s a reason why nobody fears Chelsea any more. Report on yet another bad day

Since beating Tottenham in the PL in January 2022, these are the teams Chelsea have won against in the League: Palace, Burnley, Norwich, Newcastle (pre being good), Southampton, West Ham, Leeds, Watford, Everton, Leicester, West Ham…

Chelsea have been bad in the League pre-Poch and pre-Potter, and pre this group of players. They’ve lost any fear factor and the connection between players and fans has understandably dwindled. There’s no quick fix but whether owners’ plan is one that will work remains to be seen. “

1 hour ago, El regreso said:

Gets worst before its gets better I see several humbling spanking in this run!!

I honestly can't see us getting a win between now and December, except for maybe Fulham and Brentford. 

58 minutes ago, big blue said:

Clearly we have focused on winning tomorrow far too much, that we have assembled a squad that will struggle to win. 

Injuries have taken a big toll, Pochettino has made some truly mind bending decisions.

With that said we still have a good team when everyone is fit, I think we need to big performers in their prime to compliment the attack. You can maybe have 1 of Jackson, Mudryk, Madueke, or Palmer, certainly cant be relying on 3 of them.

Horrible 18 months. Cant really sack Pochettino, so we got to hope he turns it around and buys himself time so we can fix this squad. 

 

Problem here is if the model is nobody over the age of 25 where are these big performers in their prime coming from. It's all about sell on value with this mob.

People keep talking about the players 'potential', but if we miss out on CL football 3-4 seasons in a row then the club's reputation will be damaged permanently.

 

Not to mention potential often goes unfufilled, all it takes is one ACL injury to ruin a prospect's growth. Or some players just bloom early and never kick on from there.

 

Spending 20m on youngsters like Carney is one thing, but spending hundreds of millions purely on 'potential' is an insane strategy that is far more likely to fail than succeed.

 

I don't blame Poch for this mess, but it's almost a guarantee he gets sacked by Feb/March if this form keeps up, then we're back to square one.

33 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Problem here is if the model is nobody over the age of 25 where are these big performers in their prime coming from. It's all about sell on value with this mob.

There has to be a tipping point where they have to bring some players for the now. I'm not asking for balon D'or contenders, but surely there are players under 26/27 that can elevate the team immediately. We need another smart Nkunku type signing or 2.

6 minutes ago, big blue said:

There has to be a tipping point where they have to bring some players for the now. I'm not asking for balon D'or contenders, but surely there are players under 26/27 that can elevate the team immediately. We need another smart Nkunku type signing or 2.

Maddison for 40m was right there

2 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

Newcastle is the prime example why modern football is all about attacking football and the need to play on the front foot from minute 1 and have one thing in mind only - score goals. 

They don't have an elite manager, nor a world class squad. What Howe's done since going there is to switch to an attacking 433 and give the players all the freedom in the world. 

Don't want to sound arrogant, but players such as Barnes, Gordon, Wilson, Almiron, Longstaff, Anderson, Burn, Schar, Willock, Murphy are average players, yet look elite in that environment that Howe has created. Not because of his tactics because he is an average manager as well, but because of the free flowing, attacking style imposed and the freedom he's given to his players to press very high up the pitch and play a direct style of football. 

With Pochettino I feel he is more concerned not to concede and play it safe, control the game and be happy not to lose the game. 

Some people say that stats look good even though we're only on 5 points so far. We're apparently in top 4 in chances created and some other stats. Ok, I get it, but I bet we also look the most boring out of all those clubs at the top of those charts. 

IMHO we look absolutely pathetic given the money invested. Brighton and Newcastle's squads combined I bet still don't come close to our squad's value, yet we look like MK Dons compared to them. 

Such a shame we could not convince Nagelsmann to come here as I believe his gung ho approach would have been perfectly suited to the Premier League and to this young squad.

This is not 2003 anymore where you would have to only worry about two clubs, knowing the other 15-16 are gash and you can play in the 2nd gear and still win 3-0.

Nowadays even clubs like Brighton, Villa, Wolves or West Ham can pay 40-50M on very good players on massive wages and the level of the league as a whole has improved and if you don't score goals and go to difficult away grounds with the plan to attack and score goals, then you have no chance and Chelsea is the prime example of this as for the past years we have been dreadful domestically because of our slow, turgid football and others have come from behind and have surpassed us. 

Newcastle and brighton have better attacker than we do. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 20232 yr by Bob stark

5 hours ago, just said:

I'm totally with you here ducavis. But at least @Whats_The_Mata? has finally stopped whining for a moment and put his head above the parapet and actually listed his proven at the highest level "top young players" we should have been signing. Here it is.

"Top under 25 players I'd have expected to have been linked with if we're spending a billion are players like Leao, Wirtz, Gavi, Pedri, Musiala, Napoli winger who's name I can't spell with a K, Oshenheim, Martinelli, Saliba, Camavinga, Saka, Haaland, Mbappe, Vinicus, Rodrygo, Tonali, Bellingham, Tchoumeni, Lautoro Martinez, Valerde, Bastoni, Ousmane Dembele, Muani, Vlahovic etc.

Quality young players that have performed at the highest level and have sky high ceilings".

But how many of these were realistic, credible targets? How many of these would their clubs have been willing to sell? How many would have wanted to actually come? There's a number on his list who in my opinion, aren't yet proven at the highest level. Leao, Dembele (he's 26 by the way), Vlahovic. Would they be a guaranteed  success in the EPL? Tonali is on his list and I think he has made a reasonable start for Newcastle, especially his debut, but nothing to blow your socks off. He was only a sub for them today. 

Where we have made mistakes IMO is that there were proven EPL quality players available who we could have brought in over the past couple of seasons that would have made a difference. Bissouma is one I banged on about constantly when he was at Brighton and he is now tearing it up at Tottenham. Madison was also the right profile of player we could have done with. A player comfortable operating as a genuine 10. Callum Wilson might have done a half decent job up front. And though @axman2526 has never heard of him before James Ward-Prowse also has a bit of quality about him and a great work rate.

OK, they're not super-sexy football superstars, (not all players have to be), and yes, again, it's all in hindsight. But it's way more realistic and credible than simply name checking M'bappe, Haaland, Vinicius, Bellingham, Musiala etc. as players we should have brought. That's just cloud-cuckoo land or playing too much EA Football Manager.

 

 

I agree. The 3 players you mentioned (Maddison, Ward-Prowse, and Wilson) would have all been decent options for us this past window and we still would have had plenty of young players with potential alongside them. They also wouldn't have required massive transfer fees. we could have got Ward-Prowse for significantly less than we spent on Lavia for example.

I see a fair few saying "are we a mid table team" or "we need to accept we are a mid table side for now".

We are not a mid table side, we are in a battle to stay up this season. Maybe others will see that after that run finishes with United in December.

Not trying to be funny, but the game coming up against Burnley looks like a big 6 pointer at the bottom. I think we are improving ( slowly), but so are the rest of the league. The anxiety of the players are there to be see when we can't score, and each week without 3 points make people a bit more nervous. We used to get a few goals out of midfield, or centre backs from set pieces, now we got nothing, maybe OG could be the next goal scorer for us. I reckon go with the best team mid week in the cup, it's a risk we need to take to get a bit of form and momentum.

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

I agree. The 3 players you mentioned (Maddison, Ward-Prowse, and Wilson) would have all been decent options for us this past window and we still would have had plenty of young players with potential alongside them. They also wouldn't have required massive transfer fees. we could have got Ward-Prowse for significantly less than we spent on Lavia for example.

If we sign Madison n Wilson, then it will be difficult to find playing time for Mudryk or Madueke. 

43 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Not trying to be funny, but the game coming up against Burnley looks like a big 6 pointer at the bottom. I think we are improving ( slowly), but so are the rest of the league. The anxiety of the players are there to be see when we can't score, and each week without 3 points make people a bit more nervous. We used to get a few goals out of midfield, or centre backs from set pieces, now we got nothing, maybe OG could be the next goal scorer for us. I reckon go with the best team mid week in the cup, it's a risk we need to take to get a bit of form and momentum.

We cannot score goals. Between them Forest, Bournemouth and Villa have practically been on their knees pleading with us to score against them. They have against others and have seen combinations of United, Pool and Brighton put 3 past them.

Us though no, we cannot do it. Lets look at Villa and what they offered us today.

Sterling cannot make a simple pass to offer Jackson tap in.

Sterling 1 vs 1, Jackson 1 vs 1 and Chilwell 1 vs 1 all at better angles than Watkins goal, all right at the keeper.

That should be 3 goals before, and 1 after, the red card. We played well but we cannot score. So all Villa needed was that one double error from Silva and Sanchez.

These aren't comparable with Digne volley which was going over, or that brilliant volley that Sanchez made a great save from. These are simple, simple chances as we blew them all.

Not to mention allowing Enzo a free hit in the box. That was as good an opening as Zaniolos volley.