Just now, Deino said:

Willian is a really good footballer but his end product is lacking. It's the only thing stopping him from being a WC player and is the reason why he can be so frustrating at times. He'd dribble through 2-3 players only to put the ball in the stands.

 

You could say that about many players though, Mikhi seems to always get himself on the match stats but he's such a frustrating player for United fans. 

I think Hazard is frustrating in front of goal, seems to do everything right then he'll be too selfish when he shouldn't or he'll look for the pass rather than the shot when it's wide open for him. 

3 years ago when we won the title I thought Willian was very overrated, fantastic work rate but his end product was sheer awful. But since then he's shown exactly the type of Brazilian he was at Shakhtar, full of flair and speed. He does have games against Tottenham this season where he does everything wrong, then he replaces that against Everton where he doesn't do a thing wrong. I would argue that it's his consistency that's the issue, that's why I like him as a squad player, his impact in so many games is what's so invaluable to the side. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

You could say that about many players though, Mikhi seems to always get himself on the match stats but he's such a frustrating player for United fans. 

I think Hazard is frustrating in front of goal, seems to do everything right then he'll be too selfish when he shouldn't or he'll look for the pass rather than the shot when it's wide open for him. 

3 years ago when we won the title I thought Willian was very overrated, fantastic work rate but his end product was sheer awful. But since then he's shown exactly the type of Brazilian he was at Shakhtar, full of flair and speed. He does have games against Tottenham this season where he does everything wrong, then he replaces that against Everton where he doesn't do a thing wrong. I would argue that it's his consistency that's the issue, that's why I like him as a squad player, his impact in so many games is what's so invaluable to the side. 

That's the thing, his inconsistent end product is what's causing people to be frustrated. I don't think anyone slated him for his workrate or contribution because he does really great work at times. But the thing is, at this level, Willian won't get many chances to dribble through people and have space to take a shot or square a pass and it is in these fine margins that separates champions from the rest.

He could be better than what he is currently and that's why people are frustrated, he's too good to be replaced but not good enough to consistently produce. Pedro isn't better than him but Pedro has better end product and is always looking for pockets of space behind defences. 

Hazard is of a different class, there are days where he can be frustrating but he produces moments of magic no one in the team can replicate. 

 

6 hours ago, IliyaKrostin said:

Willian completed 7 take-ons against Qarabag. No player in the Champions League completed more dribbles than him tonight.

Wow, no other player got to play against such bad opposition. That stat means nothing lol.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

I really hate reading through the comments on this thread and looking at how lowly rated Willian is, I would rate him above Pedro and say he's our 2nd best-attacking player under Hazard. Of course, you're all entitled to your opinions, I just think it's strange, has nobody watched him for the last two seasons? 

Willian is never rated higher than Pedro. Pedro and Hazard work well together because Hazard isn't a selfish a player and Pedro is a very good finisher. Pedro's game suits playing with Morata and Hazard IMO.

Problem with Willian is he reminds me of Navas, gets by his man and then nothing happens. His just too inconsistent. A good squad player though.

8 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Willian is never rated higher than Pedro. Pedro and Hazard work well together because Hazard isn't a selfish a player and Pedro is a very good finisher. Pedro's game suits playing with Morata and Hazard IMO.

Problem with Willian is he reminds me of Navas, gets by his man and then nothing happens. His just too inconsistent. A good squad player though.

And it was as a squad player that i think we got the best out of him so far. He was better last season than he was when he won player of the season in my opinion and he did it as a squad player. He lacks end product in games where he is starting a lot, but when he is coming off the bench or is in and out of team, he often catches teams by surprise or is taking on tired defender, this is when Willian is at his most dangerous.

Willian's performance last night summed up what type of player he is. He is brilliant to watch when he is picking the ball up from deep, playing quick one touch football with all of the flicks and fast running, but when it matters most, the end product, it's really lacking. It's like i said in the match day thread, if he had the end product, he would be one of the best players on the planet.

I just wish he would stop doing that 'pause' move. It's terrible. That's just ahead of hazards one touch flicks which never come off on my pet peeves list.

9 hours ago, ivorycoast said:

I just wish he would stop doing that 'pause' move. It's terrible. That's just ahead of hazards one touch flicks which never come off on my pet peeves list.

Hazard's flicks work more often than not. 

Hazard when he's running then just slows down grates on me.

Willian has been decent so far this season.

On 13/09/2017 at 18:53, Scott Harris said:

And it was as a squad player that i think we got the best out of him so far. He was better last season than he was when he won player of the season in my opinion and he did it as a squad player. He lacks end product in games where he is starting a lot, but when he is coming off the bench or is in and out of team, he often catches teams by surprise or is taking on tired defender, this is when Willian is at his most dangerous.

Willian's performance last night summed up what type of player he is. He is brilliant to watch when he is picking the ball up from deep, playing quick one touch football with all of the flicks and fast running, but when it matters most, the end product, it's really lacking. It's like i said in the match day thread, if he had the end product, he would be one of the best players on the planet.

I can't argue with that, that's obviously down to mentality & not fatigue. 

Remember when we first signed him, he was very very good in the first few months. As soon as we got rid of Mata & De Bruyne and we only had one player to play RW that's when his performances declined because he started every game. As an impact player, he is phenomenal and that's no insult to the player at all, squad players are needed in every team, Willian is one of ours. I think when Willian is in form he performs better than Pedro, although Pedro will be the more consistent out of the two.

I wouldn't say his end product is lacking, not if you go by the past two seasons I think he's improved that a lot. You could argue many players have bad end product, even Hazard in front of goal. 

On 14/09/2017 at 00:39, ivorycoast said:

I just wish he would stop doing that 'pause' move. It's terrible. That's just ahead of hazards one touch flicks which never come off on my pet peeves list.

He pulled off some great flicks in the title winning season 3 years ago, makes him less one dimensional I think, comes with the package of having Hazard, not something I want him to cut out of his game entirely. 

18 hours ago, JMaher94 said:

Hazard when he's running then just slows down grates on me.

Willian has been decent so far this season.

This is something I've always disliked about Hazard's play. Can be very frustrating to watch. He likes to try to use the turn of pace after going to virtual standstill. Both Willian and Hazard do this a lot. 

That's the reason I used to love watching Robben. The directness and pace is a deadly combination for guys like these. Not sure why he has to so often slow things down when he does have the pace to leave people behind. 

Personally i found Willian, since a start of season quite good, it has improved, more opportunity set up by him, but it's only the beginning.

The competition will be very hard between him and Pedro, so far Pedro is in front because he score more than Willian, but if Willian begin to score, things will be different. 

4 hours ago, Sun zhi said:

This is something I've always disliked about Hazard's play. Can be very frustrating to watch. He likes to try to use the turn of pace after going to virtual standstill. Both Willian and Hazard do this a lot. 

That's the reason I used to love watching Robben. The directness and pace is a deadly combination for guys like these. Not sure why he has to so often slow things down when he does have the pace to leave people behind. 

When Robben played for us, he had this bloodrush to the head at times. He'd go at people and does audacious turns that leaves them for dead and then score. He's a ruthless finisher.

Hazard on the other hand is a playful dribbler. He does it for fun, sometimes you can see the glint in his eyes that loves humiliating defenders

Willian however has a slower thought process I think. He needs to have a set of functions in his head before embarking on a dribble which usually slows the game down for us.

It's time to start making plans to move Willian on. Wasted potential. Such a brain dead player 70% of the time with 20% good performances and the occasional 10% excellent games. I see no reason why we should keep playing Willian when Musonda who has bags of talent and a lot to offer is sitting in the reserves. I hope Charly grabs his chance in the EFL on Wednesday with both hands. Our rotation needs to be Hazard > Pedro > Musonda >>>>>> Willian. At this point, if Musonda does as well as I think he can, he'd even push Pedro out of the starting lineup. I've officially had it with Willian. He's 29 years old and he's never ever going to be better than he is.

1 hour ago, Barrettinator said:

It's time to start making plans to move Willian on. Wasted potential. Such a brain dead player 70% of the time with 20% good performances and the occasional 10% excellent games. I see no reason why we should keep playing Willian when Musonda who has bags of talent and a lot to offer is sitting in the reserves. I hope Charly grabs his chance in the EFL on Wednesday with both hands. Our rotation needs to be Hazard > Pedro > Musonda >>>>>> Willian. At this point, if Musonda does as well as I think he can, he'd even push Pedro out of the starting lineup. I've officially had it with Willian. He's 29 years old and he's never ever going to be better than he is.

but.. but.. he has good work rate? and.. he scored a few free kicks a few years back..?

1 hour ago, Barrettinator said:

He's 29 years old and he's never ever going to be better than he is.

A perfectly acceptable squad player? Sounds fine with me.

We have a tiny squad, everyone knows we have a tiny squad, but here we are still wanting to ship out actually useful players.

Just now, Stim said:

A perfectly acceptable squad player? Sounds fine with me.

We have a tiny squad, everyone knows we have a tiny squad, but here we are still wanting to ship out actually useful players.

Fine. If he'll accept being a squad player (which is possible considering he has spoken of his desire to get a passport) despite it being a world cup year then that's fine. But there's no reason he should be starting league or CL games for us.

I can think of a few reasons. Like Hazard not being fully fit.

He had a poor game, but usually he's never that poor. Let's not forget he travelled to South America the week before last, probably returning jet lagged and then has played vs quarabag and arsenal. he may just be feeling a bit out of sorts and tired. I think he needs a rest. The problem is, since the international break he hasn't really had a full game off. The other players have no excuses because they've only travelled within Europe. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's slightly burned out. 

We need a massive upgrade next summer on him and Pedro. I really like Willian; very hard worker and gives it his all but I don't think he's ever gonna get better. Probably as good as it gets now.

Think its a bit of a myth how hard he works. Im one of Willians biggest fans but he plays in bursts both offensively and defensively. Creates an illusion that hes working hard.

 

What frustrates me is that he has so much ability. 1st half he didnt look interested yesterday and lost the ball far too many times, albeit in tight areas. Needs to start taking these big games by the scruff of the neck but just seems happy to put in 7/10 performances.

4 minutes ago, jamie#8 said:

Think its a bit of a myth how hard he works. Im one of Willians biggest fans but he plays in bursts both offensively and defensively. Creates an illusion that hes working hard.

 

What frustrates me is that he has so much ability. 1st half he didnt look interested yesterday and lost the ball far too many times, albeit in tight areas. Needs to start taking these big games by the scruff of the neck but just seems happy to put in 7/10 performances.

Willian gets away with a lot because he runs around, players like this always do. He got a 7 from sky sports yesterday which is a joke.

1 hour ago, enigma said:

He had a poor game, but usually he's never that poor. Let's not forget he travelled to South America the week before last, probably returning jet lagged and then has played vs quarabag and arsenal. he may just be feeling a bit out of sorts and tired. I think he needs a rest. The problem is, since the international break he hasn't really had a full game off. The other players have no excuses because they've only travelled within Europe. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's slightly burned out. 

Poor excuses 

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

The players that were performing the worst have left and now different players are performing the worst. In other news, water is wet.