Sunderland won because they were men who fought until the last minute. Hard work can beat talent. They wanted it more and they were not going to give up until it was out of their hands. Admirable, Poyet has certainly improved their self belief and determination.

Compare the 2004 team to this current team. Compare the 'warriors' to today's lineup. We don't have many who dig deep and fight. For me, the only warriors in this team right now are:

Ivan, Terry, Cole, Ramires, Lampard. That's only 5 of 11.

The rest are mostly skillful, they have nice shiny armour, but it is full of chinks. We've spent money on all the flashy armour / show ponies, but forgot about the Generals.

We are missing a Drogba to spear head our attack. We are missing a real nasty bugger in the middle (like a Viera, Keane, Toure, Ballack) to dig in and fight, push the team forward, organise the bunch.

More money needs to be spent on positions that we didn't improve.

I know it was 'only the league cup', but going out of any cup isn't nice, especially when its a team fighting relegation.

Hate to sound like a doom merchant, but Mourinho is facing a huge battle and darker days are going to come I fear.

Edited December 18, 201312 yr by Zola

Was saying this yesterday, there is not much steel/backbone to our team. Good post.

We clearly have a number of players who cant do it on a cold Tuesday night at Sunderland.

It's pretty clear Jose doesn't fancy half the players he's got to work with - and it's increasingly evident that the players know that.  Seems to me that his refusal to criticise a performance like last nights is his attempt to hold it together until he can make a few changes.  Despite saying we are not going to be active in January, surely we need to ship a couple out and get a couple of warriors in...    

To be honest I think a lot of this is because the Chelsea managers aren't always having a say about which players/type of players they want to bring in.

 

Not in a million years do I think Jose, if given the choice would have sanctioned this summers transfer dealings it it feels a very un-Mourinho squad right now with a distinct lack of leadership and strength running through the team.

 

Previously our team has been full of captains, the likes of JT, Cech, Drogba, Ballack, Gallas were all leaders and captains.

 

As talented as players like Hazard, Oscar and Ramires might be I don't think they have the same mental toughness and leadership that those previous players had.

Absolutely agree mate

The main issue to me is that once again, as has been the case with pretty much every manager since Jose in 2005, the manager has a team that they didn't build.

 

How many of our players would Jose have chosen to sign? Would be interesting to know.

 

I'd be willing to wager less than half.

What worries me more then the lack of "warriors" and leaders are the fact that we dont seem to play like a team out there, theres no cohesion. We arent pressing as a team its pretty much one or two pressing at a time while the rest is standing about. Exact same thing when we have the ball. Nobody is moving or making runs and which makes it hard for the player on the ball to find an opening, passing combinations when the ball moves on the first touch are a rarity when you watch us, the only example I remember from yesterday was when Willian was fouled after by Dossena while making a run for a KdB pass. The two exceptions seems to be Schurrle, whos also not afraid to take a shot instead of just dancing around and end up passing it sideways and Azpilicueta who was making constant runs up the right side. Sadly nobody wants to get on the end of the Crosses from Dave and it wasnt untill Lampard got fed up with our lack of movement in the box and went on a deep run that someone actually got on the end of a cross.

Edited December 18, 201312 yr by Xfaxtor

Not sure I go along with this.

 

I think he likes a lot of our team

 

Petr , JT and Frank for obvious reasons.

Mikel he brought in himself last time he was here and has been playing consistently.

 

Has been public in his praise of both Cesar and Brana, and has consistently picked both of them for a while now.

 

Obviously has a thing for Oscar with the amount of game time he is getting, and public praise. Same for Hazard.

 

Schurrle is definitely a Mourinho type player, as is Ramires. It's well known that Jose tried to sign Ramires before.

 

People getting worked up as if the squad is in some sort of disarray. It's not. We need a striker, a CDM and a CB and we'll be fine.

The game should have been put to bed with Eto,o,s miss and it would have been.Sunderland were chasing shadows at the time and we would have run out convincing winners.Poor finishing has cost us at Everton,Stoke and last night.We need a consistent striker asap imo.

Spot on. There was a time where we featured (correct me if I'm wrong) 4 national captains in our 11. (JT, Ballack, Drogba, and Malouda) 

 

We've hired show ponies with questionable mentalities in recent years and often overlooked those who might have had that winning mentality (think buying Romeu instead of Parker)

 

Truth is to win the Premier League you need mentality. United have proved time and time again that a couple of stars combined with other guys who have a ruthless mentality will win the league at the expense of others. 

 

We need a stronger mentality and less of the to use a cricketing term 'flat track bullies' who go ok when the sun is shining and we're playing in London and not so much when it's winter, midweek in the north.

I think Jose probably has it right. If we'd put in a couple of those chances in the second half, would we have come away thinking it was a dreadful performance, or would it have just been 'we didn't wake up in the first half, but we owned them in the second'?

Sunderland won because they were men who fought until the last minute. Hard work can beat talent. They wanted it more and they were not going to give up until it was out of their hands. Admirable, Poyet has certainly improved their self belief and determination.

Compare the 2004 team to this current team. Compare the 'warriors' to today's lineup. We don't have many who dig deep and fight. For me, the only warriors in this team right now are:

Ivan, Terry, Cole, Ramires, Lampard. That's only 5 of 11.

The rest are mostly skillful, they have nice shiny armour, but it is full of chinks. We've spent money on all the flashy armour / show ponies, but forgot about the Generals.

We are missing a Drogba to spear head our attack. We are missing a real nasty bugger in the middle (like a Viera, Keane, Toure, Ballack) to dig in and fight, push the team forward, organise the bunch.

More money needs to be spent on positions that we didn't improve.

I know it was 'only the league cup', but going out of any cup isn't nice, especially when its a team fighting relegation.

Hate to sound like a doom merchant, but Mourinho is facing a huge battle and darker days are going to come I fear.

Was thinking along those exact lines this morning Zola. 

De Rossi would be a good signing, but can't see it happening.

 

I've wanted this guy for so long now, sadly it's never going to happen.

People seem to forget some of these players are still young,we have some of the best young talent in the world and the best manager to develop them.We have some issues in our squad no doubt and we are inconsistent but we have managed to win alot of games this season when not playing well and thats a great sign.  

The thing that annoys me is when I see our players wearing gloves. 

 

Petty I know, but for f**k sake...

The thing that annoys me is when I see our players wearing gloves. 

 

Petty I know, but for f**k sake...

Haha, this gets on my tits as well for some reason.

 

OT: I agree just about 100% with the original post. I think Roman (or whoever is in charge of transfers) has looked at Barca and tried to copy them with the 'tiny nifty' players. That works in La Liga because it's La Liga, more about technical skill than physical. Having about 2 or 3 of these types of players in the first squad is fine, but our whole attack just seems like it consists of these players and they're all far too similar. We definitely need a lot more steel, especially in the middle of the park.

I'm looking forward to the next couple of seasons IF Mourinho's allowed to bring in whoever. (And also sell whoever)

One Warrior forgotten about is Carvalho. What a player he was and complimented all of Terry's weak points perfectly.

This season is like 03/04 for us. We have acquired a lot of talent and our squad is unbalanced. We are finding out who had the strength to win a title and who doesn't, though as there are no invincibles this time, we might do it. Expect a busy summer next year, with a few gone and some shrewd signings.

When you think of our back up players in our three title winning teams, it was mainly comprised of grafters, something a bench player needs to be. Think Smertin, Jarosik, Kezman, Huth, Bridge, Geremi, Zhirkov, Kalou, Alex.

To coin a famous Mourinho expression we need players who are willing 'to go to war'. We have never had such a technically gifted side, but they need to add that true desire to be champions if they are to go down in Chelsea folklore.

The other side to this argument, of course, is that we've had players with plenty of "steel" and zero creativity and ended up with the same pattern of results. Think Khalid the Kannibal or Steve "Gerrard" Sidwell.

 

The raging hard-on for big players who like to put in a hard tackle or two, conflated with the idea that these players are somehow more passionate or more committed always amuses me. Meanwhile the likes of West Ham and Stoke struggle for league survival season after season while the likes of Swansea fly high.

 

Out of the very top teams in the world at the moment, only Manchester City with Toure have someone i'd consider properly physically imposing. Meanwhile, we have both Michael Essien and Jon Obi Mikel, who are as aggressive as wet lettuce.

 

Aggression and the "warrior" mentality have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a player's physical attributes. It has everything to do with their mindset and while personality plays a part it is something that is the responsibility of the manager to teach, nurture and dare I say enforce.

 

You want proof? Luis Suarez. Sergio Aguero. Andres Iniesta. Marco Reus. Watch them play. Watch them harass defenders off the ball because they genuinely feel affronted when they don't  have it. Watch them run at their defenders because they genuinely desire to humiliate and destroy them. And not a single one of these players could be described as anything else but a "flair" or "tiny nifty" player.

The English-media fuelled perception is that technically gifted players are weak, feminine and in need of protection. I think that Chelsea fans who are so obsessed with justifying our place in "proper" football hierarchy too readily buy into these stereotypes in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary.

 

We also need to remember that these players are not isolated within their team; their coaches actively encourage the same mentality in all their teammates too, with one notable exception in Sergio Aguero. City are a team with Aguero and Toure who do possess the correct mentality but the rest of the team do not. That to me is proof that for success, this aggression needs to come from the coach down and not from isolated individuals.

Yes Sydney, that is a very good case. In fact you are correct.

You don't want to go too far the other way and end up with a squad full of over-rated 'never day die' type players. Case in point- Liverpool under Hodgson and Kenny.

The point you have raised is why Suarez is my favourite player to watch in the league as he combines his insane technique with a killer work-rate, Aguero like you pointed is a close second and my modern era favourite for this respect is Tevez. He was just insane. None of our current strikers really lead from the front in this regard, and while the media would like to paint Lukaku as this, he is really just a 6ft 3 poacher at the minute. That is why Willian has a lot of potential, as his technique is great, he has good workrate and he has the right manager. He just needs the belief installed in him to become more aggressive and to kill off the opponent.

I agree the manager plays a big part. Look at Arshavin for Russia and Arsneal, it was like a different player. Drogba for the managers he respected was also a different animal.

 

I also think it's not entirely correct to label our team as "flat-track bullies" Spiller; I get your point about our home vs away form but that's true of virtually any club. In fact, on the basis of this season alone, we've consistently put in credible performances against quality opposition while struggling against the lesser lights and that pattern is evident across competitions and venues.

 

It's the shrinking violent syndrome we've discussed in the past, but I think it manifests itself more in the players (and honestly, fans) always wanting to play the safe, victim, underdog option rather than having the balls to actually play as champions and winners. 

Edited December 19, 201312 yr by SydneyChelsea

Spot on. There was a time where we featured (correct me if I'm wrong) 4 national captains in our 11. (JT, Ballack, Drogba, and Malouda) 

 

We've hired show ponies with questionable mentalities in recent years and often overlooked those who might have had that winning mentality (think buying Romeu instead of Parker)

 

Truth is to win the Premier League you need mentality. United have proved time and time again that a couple of stars combined with other guys who have a ruthless mentality will win the league at the expense of others. 

 

We need a stronger mentality and less of the to use a cricketing term 'flat track bullies' who go ok when the sun is shining and we're playing in London and not so much when it's winter, midweek in the north.

 

You can't be serious here?

The other side to this argument, of course, is that we've had players with plenty of "steel" and zero creativity and ended up with the same pattern of results. Think Khalid the Kannibal or Steve "Gerrard" Sidwell.

The raging hard-on for big players who like to put in a hard tackle or two, conflated with the idea that these players are somehow more passionate or more committed always amuses me. Meanwhile the likes of West Ham and Stoke struggle for league survival season after season while the likes of Swansea fly high.

Out of the very top teams in the world at the moment, only Manchester City with Toure have someone i'd consider properly physically imposing. Meanwhile, we have both Michael Essien and Jon Obi Mikel, who are as aggressive as wet lettuce.

Aggression and the "warrior" mentality have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a player's physical attributes. It has everything to do with their mindset and while personality plays a part it is something that is the responsibility of the manager to teach, nurture and dare I say enforce.

You want proof? Luis Suarez. Sergio Aguero. Andres Iniesta. Marco Reus. Watch them play. Watch them harass defenders off the ball because they genuinely feel affronted when they don't have it. Watch them run at their defenders because they genuinely desire to humiliate and destroy them. And not a single one of these players could be described as anything else but a "flair" or "tiny nifty" player.

The English-media fuelled perception is that technically gifted players are weak, feminine and in need of protection. I think that Chelsea fans who are so obsessed with justifying our place in "proper" football hierarchy too readily buy into these stereotypes in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary.

We also need to remember that these players are not isolated within their team; their coaches actively encourage the same mentality in all their teammates too, with one notable exception in Sergio Aguero. City are a team with Aguero and Toure who do possess the correct mentality but the rest of the team do not. That to me is proof that for success, this aggression needs to come from the coach down and not from isolated individuals.

I am not proposing we go out and buy 11 Lee Catermole's, good God no. I agree that the warrior attitude is in the mind, but you'll never win the premier league now without a bit of muscle as well. Show me a team who's won the premier league without 5 or 6 big strong, imposing lads..

We used to psychically dominate teams and play them off the park with a fair bit of technical skill as well. That's what made us so utterly hard to beat. Its no coincidence that our lowest ever conceded goals season (15?) was when we had these big men who were very technically skillful. Now that's not the case at all. We used to be supremely confident when facing Arsenal, we knew that our psychical presence, along with skill would nearly always beat their superior technical skill.

Our smaller players (who are exceptionally individually gifted) get bullied all to easily and we don't seem to have players with the same 'never say die / win at all costs' attitude.

A big striker and a big midfield general could change the dynamic of the team.

Edited December 19, 201312 yr by Zola