1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

An attacking mid has better stats than a regista. Wowzers.

An attacking mid that the original poster said passed sideways and backwards 99% of the time. Yet has 11 combined goals and assists. Wowzers.

13 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

An attacking mid that the original poster said passed sideways and backwards 99% of the time. Yet has 11 combined goals and assists. Wowzers.

The majority of Barkley's passes are sideways or backwards and very rarely takes on his man. Incredibly bang average and nowhere near Chelsea level. Everton was his level, if he wasn't English no one would be against selling him.

On 29/04/2019 at 01:15, just said:

Jorginho goals - 2

Barkley goals - 5

Jorginho assists - 0

Barkley assists - 6

I put it to you Sir, that you are talking twaddle.

(From whoscored.com)

It really is shocking to me that you don't know the difference between two positions as proven by this post. Jorginho plays as a regista, Barkley as an attacking playmaker/midfielder. What next? are you going to tell me that Lampard scored more goals than Makelele?

On 29/04/2019 at 01:15, just said:

Jorginho goals - 2

Barkley goals - 5

Jorginho assists - 0

Barkley assists - 6

I put it to you Sir, that you are talking twaddle.

(From whoscored.com)

It really is shocking to me that you don't know the difference between two positions as proven by this post. Jorginho plays as a regista, Barkley as an attacking playmaker/midfielder. What next? are you going to tell me that Lampard scored more goals than Makelele?

 

On 29/04/2019 at 00:23, just said:

Ah statement and lies. Would be great if you could take the time and effort to try and back that with some facts or stats. Here's one from me. Mata was more effective than Jorginho today.

Barkley might have been too, but he wasn't given the opportunity.

 

I don't even think Barkley plays attacking m/f for us, he plays as a holding m/f whether that is by instruction or just the flow of the match I am not sure. He normally gets a shot away per match yet not nearly enough as an attacking m/f.

On 29/04/2019 at 12:47, RIP Mourinho said:

The majority of Barkley's passes are sideways or backwards and very rarely takes on his man. Incredibly bang average and nowhere near Chelsea level. Everton was his level, if he wasn't English no one would be against selling him.

Harsh truths that need to be spoken, if he wasn't English we wouldn't give a rats arse about him. 

He's a good player, but that doesn't make you Chelsea material, he always had a lot to prove in the shirt with very high expectations, for me he hasn't matched them. And that's okay... He wasn't expensive, we knew the situation, but I can't see him ever having a prosperous career here. I much prefer we gave Rubin the game time. 

21 hours ago, DidierDidier said:

It really is shocking to me that you don't know the difference between two positions as proven by this post. Jorginho plays as a regista, Barkley as an attacking playmaker/midfielder. What next? are you going to tell me that Lampard scored more goals than Makelele?

Sorry, my bad. I forgot our regista isn't there to create. Nor is he there to destroy. He is there though. I think. Hard to tell a lot of the time, except when he points. I notice him when he points. Oh, I remember! He is there to do the recycling! A recycling regista. Not a cash regista. That's completely different.

But Barkley though? 5 goals and 6 assists isn't too bad innit? Especially when he passes sideways and backwards 99% of the time.

Edited April 30, 20197 yr by just

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

Harsh truths that need to be spoken, if he wasn't English we wouldn't give a rats arse about him. 

He's a good player, but that doesn't make you Chelsea material, he always had a lot to prove in the shirt with very high expectations, for me he hasn't matched them. And that's okay... He wasn't expensive, we knew the situation, but I can't see him ever having a prosperous career here. I much prefer we gave Rubin the game time. 

I tend to agree, he is a useful squad player, and being English helps with the quota stuff, I keep hoping he will turn into the Joe Cole level player that we had under Jose as he clearly has talent but as with many players I dont get the feeling he will ever reach the lofty heights that were first hoped for him at Eventon

7 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

I tend to agree, he is a useful squad player, and being English helps with the quota stuff, I keep hoping he will turn into the Joe Cole level player that we had under Jose as he clearly has talent but as with many players I dont get the feeling he will ever reach the lofty heights that were first hoped for him at Eventon

I kind of hope it is just Sarri's instructions stopping him venturing forward more often and being more dangerous and suppose we won't know until we get better supporting players or post Sarri.

I was hoping he would turn into a Lampardesque type of m/f.

I agree that if this is his limit then at least we got a relatively cheap squad player. 

Edited May 1, 20197 yr by strider6004

2 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I kind of hope it is just Sarri's instructions stopping him venturing forward more often and being more dangerous and suppose we won't know until we get better supporting players or post Sarri.

I was hoping he would turn into a Lampardesque type of m/f.

I agree that if this is his limit then at least we got a relatively cheap squad player. 

I never thought he would go Lamps style TBH, but some of teh little flicks and tricks he did as a kid at Everton were (to my eyes anyway) reminiscent of JC at West Ham, hence the pseudo comparison. Maybe a combo of the 2 which would have been outstanding to be fair ?  

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

Harsh truths that need to be spoken, if he wasn't English we wouldn't give a rats arse about him. 

He's a good player, but that doesn't make you Chelsea material, he always had a lot to prove in the shirt with very high expectations, for me he hasn't matched them. And that's okay... He wasn't expensive, we knew the situation, but I can't see him ever having a prosperous career here. I much prefer we gave Rubin the game time. 

I don't think Rueben either will reach the great heights due to his injury / back issue. I think he can only make it as a super sub when he is fit.

Also to be fair he does have that ability coming off the bench to change things, I think he makes more of an impact doing this than he does when he starts. Not sure why.

12 hours ago, just said:

Sorry, my bad. I forgot our regista isn't there to create. Nor is he there to destroy. He is there though. I think. Hard to tell a lot of the time, except when he points. I notice him when he points. Oh, I remember! He is there to do the recycling! A recycling regista. Not a cash regista. That's completely different.

But Barkley though? 5 goals and 6 assists isn't too bad innit? Especially when he passes sideways and backwards 99% of the time.

5 goals and 6 assists in 46 appearances this season, thats poor for any club in the top half of the table. Mason Mount given the opportunity would already have much better numbers. Loftus-Cheek has better numbers despite fighting injury and playing much less. But not only is Barkley statistically poor, he does very little for the team when he's on the pitch. I think the opposite is true of Jorginho. His stats are those of a defensive midfielder, and he helps dictate games and does a lot more than many give him credit for. 

1 hour ago, DidierDidier said:

5 goals and 6 assists in 46 appearances this season, thats poor for any club in the top half of the table. Mason Mount given the opportunity would already have much better numbers. Loftus-Cheek has better numbers despite fighting injury and playing much less. But not only is Barkley statistically poor, he does very little for the team when he's on the pitch. I think the opposite is true of Jorginho. His stats are those of a defensive midfielder, and he helps dictate games and does a lot more than many give him credit for. 

Not a fan of assumptions and guessing - but I think you're right with this one. I like Barkley - but he's back-up material for us. I prefer both Mount and RLC ahead of Barkley. 
- Barkley has been decent in the EL and cup-games, but to me he goes missing in the important games. he's good to have in case of injuries and squad-rotation - but not as a starter.

I've noticed with Barkley he is good at holding off players when he has the ball. He also seems good defensively especially positionally though at Everton I remember him striding forward into space in forward midfield looking to either score or give an attacker an assist. Seem to have lost that second part of his game at least for Chelsea.

2 hours ago, DidierDidier said:

5 goals and 6 assists in 46 appearances this season, thats poor for any club in the top half of the table. Mason Mount given the opportunity would already have much better numbers. Loftus-Cheek has better numbers despite fighting injury and playing much less. But not only is Barkley statistically poor, he does very little for the team when he's on the pitch. I think the opposite is true of Jorginho. His stats are those of a defensive midfielder, and he helps dictate games and does a lot more than many give him credit for. 

Barkley 1924 minutes played - 5 goals 6 assists

Jorginho 3425 minutes played - 2 goals 0 assists

Kovacic 2352 minutes played 0 goals 3 assists.

The stats simply do not back up your statements. And I strongly suspect if Jorginho was English, brought from Bournemouth for £15 million, and had turned in the exact same performance as he has so far, you would be going mental at Sarri for picking him every week!

9 minutes ago, just said:

Barkley 1924 minutes played - 5 goals 6 assists

Jorginho 3425 minutes played - 2 goals 0 assists

Kovacic 2352 minutes played 0 goals 3 assists.

The stats simply do not back up your statements. And I strongly suspect if Jorginho was English, brought from Bournemouth for £15 million, and had turned in the exact same performance as he has so far, you would be going mental at Sarri for picking him every week!

Neither of those stats is sufficient enough. 

22 hours ago, just said:

Barkley 1924 minutes played - 5 goals 6 assists

Jorginho 3425 minutes played - 2 goals 0 assists

Kovacic 2352 minutes played 0 goals 3 assists.

The stats simply do not back up your statements. And I strongly suspect if Jorginho was English, brought from Bournemouth for £15 million, and had turned in the exact same performance as he has so far, you would be going mental at Sarri for picking him every week!

You keep posting stats that don't relate to my actual argument which either suggests you're not reading what I'm saying, you don't understand it or maybe that I'm not explaining it well enough. Football isn't just about goals and assists. Jorginho plays a different position, he is further back, he dictates play and screens the back 4. Barkley has a different more attacking role, he also plays behind Hazard giving him a lot more space to attack. Goals and assists are relevant to Barkley's performance not to Jorginho's. Goals and assists stats aren't useful in comparing Jorginho and Barkley because they have very different roles. Fernandinho plays a similar role to Jorginho, he has 1 goal and 3 assists this season. Many wouldn't disagree that he has had an incredible season. I'm not trying to say to you that Jorginho has had an incredible season but I think he has been decent in his specific role. Barkley has been worse in his role in the team than Jorginho has in his. 

You're point about his Englishness getting in the way of my judgement is also completely laughable considering in my last post I stated that I'd much prefer Mason Mount or Loftus-Cheek start in Barkley's position.  

4 minutes ago, DidierDidier said:

You keep posting stats that don't relate to my actual argument which either suggests you're not reading what I'm saying, you don't understand it or maybe that I'm not explaining it well enough. Football isn't just about goals and assists. Jorginho plays a different position, he is further back, he dictates play and screens the back 4. Barkley has a different more attacking role, he also plays behind Hazard giving him a lot more space to attack. Goals and assists are relevant to Barkley's performance not to Jorginho's. Goals and assists stats aren't useful in comparing Jorginho and Barkley because they have very different roles. Fernandinho plays a similar role to Jorginho, he has 1 goal and 3 assists this season. Many wouldn't disagree that he has had an incredible season. I'm not trying to say to you that Jorginho has had an incredible season but I think he has been decent in his specific role. Barkley has been worse in his role in the team than Jorginho has in his. 

You're point about his Englishness getting in the way of my judgement is also completely laughable considering in my last post I stated that I'd much prefer Mason Mount or Loftus-Cheek start in Barkley's position.  

I think this is a valid point. I don't know if these exist but better stats measures would be pass completion over certain distances and direction.

How many passes, what percentage are forward.

Completion rates over 5 yard, 5 - 10, 10 - 15, long range.

Tackles won.

Possession turnovers resulting in three or more subsequent passes by our team

 

On 01/05/2019 at 13:54, just said:

Barkley 1924 minutes played - 5 goals 6 assists

Jorginho 3425 minutes played - 2 goals 0 assists

Kovacic 2352 minutes played 0 goals 3 assists.

The stats simply do not back up your statements. And I strongly suspect if Jorginho was English, brought from Bournemouth for £15 million, and had turned in the exact same performance as he has so far, you would be going mental at Sarri for picking him every week!

I think we all agree kovacic isn't performing in an attacking sense. No need to pull up his stats.

The issue is Barkley isn't either. Those aren't big enough numbers. One goalassist every 200 minutes isn't good enough at this level and in his position

Joringho plays a different role. No need to compare. Be like comparing rudiger to alonso.

 

3 hours ago, DidierDidier said:

You keep posting stats that don't relate to my actual argument which either suggests you're not reading what I'm saying, you don't understand it or maybe that I'm not explaining it well enough. Football isn't just about goals and assists. Jorginho plays a different position, he is further back, he dictates play and screens the back 4.

Joao Moutinho's best season yielded him 2 goals and 0 assists. It amazes me that "end product" stats are used to strike at a player who's job is to link the defense and midfield up, it won't be long until Kepa is getting judged on assists.

36 minutes ago, Argo said:

Joao Moutinho's best season yielded him 2 goals and 0 assists. It amazes me that "end product" stats are used to strike at a player who's job is to link the defense and midfield up, it won't be long until Kepa is getting judged on assists.

Busquets in a similar role at Barcelona stats this season: Games 33, Goals 0, Assists 1. And they're his typical stats throughout his whole career.

hahahah thanks for the person who called Jorginho a defensive midfielder, I needed that!

 

 

Best player on the pitch tonight by far.

Should of scored though!, especially his first chance.

23 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Should of scored though!, especially his first chance.

Should have had a couple.  But was a threat all night...….