22 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Rudiger pulling a Winston Bogarde on us. 

On the surface its a similar situation, but not when you consider Bogarde was almost retired at 34 and long past playing for his country. Rudiger is 27 and still playing for Germany. You'd think Rudi would have left us to continue playing football elsewhere, with the World cup coming up he cannot afford a season sat on our bench as he will surely lose his place in the German team, if he hasn't already. 

51 minutes ago, coco said:

On the surface its a similar situation, but not when you consider Bogarde was almost retired at 34 and long past playing for his country. Rudiger is 27 and still playing for Germany. You'd think Rudi would have left us to continue playing football elsewhere, with the World cup coming up he cannot afford a season sat on our bench as he will surely lose his place in the German team, if he hasn't already. 

For most nations I guess this would be a problem but not when your manager is Joachim Low.

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Rudiger pulling a Winston Bogarde on us. 

I don't see any evidence of this at all. 

That would be Danny Drinkwater rather than Rudiger. And, to the best of my recollection, Bogarde was a professional who showed up for training and did not drink drive or get himself in trouble.

4 hours ago, Deino said:

I don't see any evidence of this at all. 

Right, it's just that nobody's buying right now and January is not that far away. Bogarde is a lazy comparison.

Again in the starting lineup, already had 1 header and cleared a ball.

He was involved in the first goal.

Edited October 10, 20205 yr by Gol15

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Again in the starting lineup, already had 1 header and cleared a ball.

He was involved in the first goal.

Lets hope he holds onto his place in the German team until January, the more dollar we get for him the less Marina will have to haggle for Sancho next summer.

1 hour ago, coco said:

Lets hope he holds onto his place in the German team until January, the more dollar we get for him the less Marina will have to haggle for Sancho next summer.

Do we really need Sancho when we have 2 wingers that clearly are good enough for the first team + CHO that clearly needs his chance to play? Getting Sancho might disturb our lineup, we can't keep getting key players on positions where we already have starters, it would only make it harder for Lampard to make a clear to-go starting lineup and someone won't be happy very fast...

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Do we really need Sancho when we have 2 wingers that clearly are good enough for the first team + CHO that clearly needs his chance to play? Getting Sancho might disturb our lineup, we can't keep getting key players on positions where we already have starters, it would only make it harder for Lampard to make a clear to-go starting lineup and someone won't be happy very fast...

We have 3 wingers with Ziyech, but 2 of them are looking a bit fragile, and the other is still a teen.

LW Pulisic/CHO and RW Sancho/Ziyech. Frank would have plenty of options with those four wingers

The Swiss score with some absolutely idiotic defending (or lack of any effort) from our man..... Sigh. 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

The Swiss score with some absolutely idiotic defending (or lack of any effort) from our man..... Sigh. 

He was really poor today, wasn't he.  Got away with an elbow to the face also.  Interesting to see if he starts again?

Somehow he is always starting for Germany but for us he isn't even on the bench. Most of what I've seen is Germany playing with the back 3, I guess they didn't do it in this most recent game though. Not sure where did it go wrong but for some reason he is still trusted in the national team...

LOL just saw the highlights, Havertz and Werner looked very impressive, Rudiger was atrocious. 

He's finished as far as I'm concerned, I don't want to see that bloke play again, huge decline. 

Well it seems like it's not the tactics or the manager, it's the man..

He is very well suited to a back 3 as he can cover space in behind the wingback due to his pace and has 2 CB's alongside him to cover the gap he leaves, in a back 4 his positioning and decision making is very questionable especially if the partnering CB is Christensen.

Only watched the goals but he looked pretty suspect for two of Switzerland's three goals.

Low is under increasing pressure to recall Hummels and Boatang to the national side, apparently he's decided it's time for a new phase for the German national side so has stopped calling them up... But when Rudiger is the alternative, is that really the smartest move? 

I'm perplexed at what is going on with Rudi.

He was our best centre back and a crowd favourite a few years ago and now its all gone wrong. I don't ever remember an outfield players fortunes changing so dramatically and quickly so early in a career. I can understand it happening at the end of a career but he's not old. 

I loved his pace and motivational body language and would still give him another chance if we had a series a injuries but it looks like we will have to sell. At this rate we'll be lucky to get £15m.

34 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I don't ever remember an outfield players fortunes changing so dramatically and quickly so early in a career.

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

 

You raise a good point although Essien was at Chelsea for 9 years and for the best part of that he performed well. From memory.

Torres was 27 when he arrived at Chelsea and never really reached the heights achieved at Liverpool. His performances were consistently below par whereas Rudi did have "it" for a while. Rudi was younger when he arrived but I do accept your point that it is not unknown for players to lose form early in their careers. 

1 hour ago, Andy North said:

You raise a good point although Essien was at Chelsea for 9 years and for the best part of that he performed well. From memory.

Torres was 27 when he arrived at Chelsea and never really reached the heights achieved at Liverpool. His performances were consistently below par whereas Rudi did have "it" for a while. Rudi was younger when he arrived but I do accept your point that it is not unknown for players to lose form early in their careers. 

Essien's Chelsea decline was the worst decline I've seen for a Chelsea player. Torres declined before he came here. Essien was absolutely elite though until he had knee surgery was it? in 2010 and after he was woeful, completely different player. 

1 hour ago, Andy North said:

You raise a good point although Essien was at Chelsea for 9 years and for the best part of that he performed well. From memory.

Torres was 27 when he arrived at Chelsea and never really reached the heights achieved at Liverpool. His performances were consistently below par whereas Rudi did have "it" for a while. Rudi was younger when he arrived but I do accept your point that it is not unknown for players to lose form early in their careers. 

The one thing all 3 had in common was none were/are particularly naturally gifted meaning once their athletic qualities waned so did their ability to impact games at this level, Alexis Sanchez is another example.

12 hours ago, Slojo said:

Essien's Chelsea decline was the worst decline I've seen for a Chelsea player. Torres declined before he came here. Essien was absolutely elite though until he had knee surgery was it? in 2010 and after he was woeful, completely different player. 

I thought Essiens problems were thigh related. He had the biggest thigh muscles I've ever seen on a footballer so any problem with them would be serious. 

 

6 hours ago, Andy North said:

I thought Essiens problems were thigh related. He had the biggest thigh muscles I've ever seen on a footballer so any problem with them would be serious. 

 

It may have been, I do remember him having knee surgery at one point though but that might have been in 2011/12. 

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

It may have been, I do remember him having knee surgery at one point though but that might have been in 2011/12. 

He had lots of little niggles, three ‘knee injuries’ and did his ACL twice, the final one was pretty much the nail in the coffin for his time at the club. 

19 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

He had lots of little niggles, three ‘knee injuries’ and did his ACL twice, the final one was pretty much the nail in the coffin for his time at the club. 

What was the one he had in 2010? Just after we won the league, because after that there was a huge change in him. He just didn't look the same player at all after that and he was only 28.