On 25/09/2020 at 22:15, Argo said:

Why Barkley? Why get rid of a proven squad player in a season we're playing midweek and weekend turnover almost every week?

Why Barkley, bit of a moot point now he's buggered off to Villa on loan.

Just now, CFCCAN said:

Why Barkley, bit of a moot point now he's buggered off to Villa on loan.

Still doesn't make it the right decision and we could feel his loss if we have an injury crisis. Him standing up while we were dropping like flies was a big reason we made top four and a cup final.

However it does seem Ross himself pushed for it as opposed to us ushering him out so I'm not as annoyed as I was initially.

On 29/09/2020 at 13:28, Droopy said:

It's unbelievable how much some players can be tolerated and how less others. Rudiger is treated like a trash after 2 very good seasons and one bad right after nasty  injury  and Christensen is still a regular starter after very good 6 months and terrible 3 years and a half. No injuries, different managers, different styles, absolutely zero excuses for him. Meanwhile the same excuses with the injuries are apparently to be valid for the likes of CHO, Loftus-Cheek even Barkley at the beginning. 

Is it too much to judge the players by same standards? I would agree with either to blame them for their sh*tty performance despite the injuries or with the 'not guilty' due to the injuries. But mixing it like that based on the player and whether you like it or not... that's low.

Well its not that black and white, if I had to guess why AC is being kept I'll imagine it's down to these reasons.

1. AC is more content to rotate/fight whereas Rudi wants regular football.

2. AC from being an academy boy doesn't cost anything in terms of amortization cost and frees up a HG spot.

3. There's a lot of defenders that have inconsistent/hard times in their early 20's and mature in their second half of the 20s (Lucio/VVD for example). One things that can't be denied is AC has a higher ceiling than Rudi and early signs are despite the red Vs Liverpool we're starting to see a bit more of consistentcy from him.

On 29/09/2020 at 13:11, jack_super_class said:

Still better than Christensen though.

Lamps clearly doesn't think so.

It's a pity, because in his early days with us, I thought he was decent. Defended well and scored a few goals. But let's face it, his form has fallen off a cliff, so much so that you're always waiting for his next error. I know all of our defenders have errors in them, but Rudige has been the worst since we returned in June. So if we can get him off the wage bill and perhaps get a transfer fee (rather than a loan), it will make sense.

Edited October 1, 20205 yr by Nibs

Lampard seems to change his mind regularly about who our best centre backs are, presumably because he's not completely satisfied in any of them.

If Rüdiger goes to a rival then I feel that we would regret it. A loan back in the fatherland would make more sense.

Rudiger needs to play more regularly so, if no-one else come in then move to Spurs that way no dressing room disharmony. 

2 hours ago, bluedave said:

Lampard seems to change his mind regularly about who our best centre backs are, presumably because he's not completely satisfied in any of them.

If Rüdiger goes to a rival then I feel that we would regret it. A loan back in the fatherland would make more sense.

 

I am not a fan of loans in general. 

Sure you have an emerging teenager, you want to loan him out so he can get regular play time and continue his development at a senior level.

But for a guy in his mid and late 20s, he ain't growing no more. If he's not up to the standards you need, just sell them. Sell them cheap if you have to, so you can move onward and forward.

 

I think we would be absolutely mad to give him to spurs on loan. They are building a great squad and we will only make them stronger. Our defence is ropey and yet we are letting our best CB go. Frank needs to sign a commanding CB asap if hes willing to let rudi go.

7 minutes ago, strangebutblue said:

I think we would be absolutely mad to give him to spurs on loan. They are building a great squad and we will only make them stronger. Our defence is ropey and yet we are letting our best CB go. Frank needs to sign a commanding CB asap if hes willing to let rudi go.

He's not our CB, infact he was our worst last season and that's saying something.

51 minutes ago, strangebutblue said:

I think we would be absolutely mad to give him to spurs on loan. They are building a great squad and we will only make them stronger. Our defence is ropey and yet we are letting our best CB go. Frank needs to sign a commanding CB asap if hes willing to let rudi go.

If you rate Rudiger then i understand why you wouldn't want him to go there.

But i think he's technically a pretty awful football player. if your'e after a big lump of a defender Rudiger is your man, but that's all your'e getting.

The worst CB/Keeper partnership i have seen at this club in many years has been the Kepa, Rudiger, Christensen threesome. Add to them Alonso and its probably the worst defence since the early 90's.

No surprise in midweek, the first game all 4 are not around, we looked pretty good at the back.

Giving Rudiger to Spuds is very appealing to me.

I would never let one of our players go to Tottenham. If this was the other way around, they would never even consider giving us one of their players. 

I also think Rudiger is being written off too early. Even though he was very poor last season, there is still a chance he can get back to his best form, which is better than anything Christensen, Zouma and Tomori have shown in their careers so far.

20 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I would never let one of our players go to Tottenham. If this was the other way around, they would never even consider giving us one of their players. 

I also think Rudiger is being written off too early. Even though he was very poor last season, there is still a chance he can get back to his best form, which is better than anything Christensen, Zouma and Tomori have shown in their careers so far.

I don't think that is necessarily true, I think Zouma is a better defender then Rudiger and has showcased that during the time they have played together and even whilst playing at Everton. I think Rudiger had his best year with us under Sarri and if we compare the 2 using Rudiger's best season and the same season when Zouma was playing for Everton it clearly shows us defensively Zouma is a superior defender:

These figures are despite Zouma playing 262 fewer minutes to Rudiger.

Having said that I agree we need to give Rudiger a chance especially over Christensen who I believe is an inferior defender to Rudiger and more susceptible against more physical attackers.  

Zouma's stats should be higher than Rudiger's that season seeing as Everton were doing much more defending than we were. Zouma was actually pretty poor that season, same goes with the whole Everton defence. They were the worst team in the league for set pieces if I remember correctly.

3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Zouma's stats should be higher than Rudiger's that season seeing as Everton were doing much more defending than we were. Zouma was actually pretty poor that season, same goes with the whole Everton defence. They were the worst team in the league for set pieces if I remember correctly.

Well his defensive stats are better than Rudiger's last season too, your initial statement was his best form is far better than anything Zouma and the rest of our CB's have shown all there careers, statistically that is inaccurate and Rudiger even fails the eye test. 

Zouma does look unconventional when on the ball but defensively he is the most secure CB we have. 

I actually rate Rudiger but similarly to Alonso he operates at his optimum levels whilst playing in a back 3, in a back 4 I find his decision making a littlw questionable at times. 

I have zero problem loaning Rudiger to TitsNHam if they guarantee him a regular start. One thing that Mourinho does proper is to organize a defense and maybe the move under Mourinho might help Rudiger and us once Rudiger comes back to us later. 

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I would never let one of our players go to Tottenham. If this was the other way around, they would never even consider giving us one of their players. 

Bid for Gazzaniga or Danny Rose and that stance will go out of the window faster than a Cheetah once it's got eyeballs on it's prey. 

Edited October 3, 20205 yr by Argo

4 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Well his defensive stats are better than Rudiger's last season too, your initial statement was his best form is far better than anything Zouma and the rest of our CB's have shown all there careers, statistically that is inaccurate and Rudiger even fails the eye test. 

Zouma does look unconventional when on the ball but defensively he is the most secure CB we have. 

I actually rate Rudiger but similarly to Alonso he operates at his optimum levels whilst playing in a back 3, in a back 4 I find his decision making a littlw questionable at times. 

Of course his stats were better than Rudiger's last season, Rugider was sh*t. Rudiger's best form is still better than Zouma's though, no matter what the stats say.

Stats aren't everything, especially when it comes to defenders playing for teams at different ends of the table. Zouma's stats were actually slightly better than Laporte's that season, and Zouma is nowhere near Laporte's level. Ben Mee was statistically better than all of them, including Van Dijk, but we all know he is worse than all of them.

Roman was quoted to have said that he doesn't do business with them (Spurs) by Carlton Cole years ago, hopefully none of that mindset has changed.

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Of course his stats were better than Rudiger's last season, Rugider was sh*t. Rudiger's best form is still better than Zouma's though, no matter what the stats say.

Stats aren't everything, especially when it comes to defenders playing for teams at different ends of the table. Zouma's stats were actually slightly better than Laporte's that season, and Zouma is nowhere near Laporte's level. Ben Mee was statistically better than all of them, including Van Dijk, but we all know he is worse than all of them.

Zouma is just better than Rudiger defensively statistically or otherwise. 

Will have to agree to disagree 

On 02/10/2020 at 00:14, haviet1 said:

 

I am not a fan of loans in general. 

Sure you have an emerging teenager, you want to loan him out so he can get regular play time and continue his development at a senior level.

But for a guy in his mid and late 20s, he ain't growing no more. If he's not up to the standards you need, just sell them. Sell them cheap if you have to, so you can move onward and forward.

 

How much would you sell him for? How much do you think we are going to get paid for the loan? Those are the calculations the club does for players in their mid 20s and why we loan so many. 

Comments like this seem like you think loans are free. They aren't. 

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

Zouma is just better than Rudiger defensively statistically or otherwise. 

Will have to agree to disagree 

I agree with Scott, I think Rudiger is a better defender and has a higher ceiling than Zouma, but Zouma is playing better and Rudiger looks like he's on a downwards trajectory so selling him over Zouma makes sense, if one of them needs to go. 

 

 

Roma interested if the Smalling deal doesnt work..

Edited October 5, 20205 yr by DidierDrogbalala

 

On 02/10/2020 at 17:00, Scott Harris said:

I would never let one of our players go to Tottenham. If this was the other way around, they would never even consider giving us one of their players. 

I also think Rudiger is being written off too early. Even though he was very poor last season, there is still a chance he can get back to his best form, which is better than anything Christensen, Zouma and Tomori have shown in their careers so far.

I've found Zouma more convincing than Rüdiger at any point they spent in this league simultaneously. I'm not denying Rüdiger has been a convincing CB for us at times, but Zouma has always been more reliable, focused and committed. 

The one thing Rüdiger got on Zouma is appearance. Just like pretty much any CB, Rüdiger looks sleeker and more elegant in his movement and more gifted on the ball. But with Zouma, appearances a deceiving. They are considered a limitation to his talent ceiling. I disagree. I believe Zouma is becoming a master of his craft and, if things go right, will become on the best defenders of this league. He's our main man for the future. 

Rudiger pulling a Winston Bogarde on us.