Callum Hudson-Odoi

[WhiteWall]

16 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Our fans have a habit of conflating issues.

Selling Tammy was not the problem, it was replacing him with Lukaku. 

Selling Tomori or Guehi was not the problem. It was replacing them for huge money, with the likes of Koulibally or an injury prone Fofana 

Selling CHO wasn't the problem - it was replacing him solely with overpriced potential and unproven youth. 

Selling any of these players was probably, on balance, the right thing. Unfortunately our incoming transfers have been poor, and therefore, it makes our fans wish for mediocre players we have sold.

Spot on Jim

[WhiteWall]

11 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Doesn't bother me much, if we send Mudryk to Forest or Burnley for a loan, he will score some goals and have some good games, doesn't mean he will replicate that playing for Chelsea.

Actually the way this lad's luck is going if we did send him to Burnley he'd hightail it up the M1 at a blistering pace, jink his way on to the M6, slip and fall on his arse.

[Jangz]

happy for him.. deserves a break. He was crazy in that one game against Arsenal is my ever lasting memory.. hope he gets there some day again.

[just]

4 hours ago, OriginalS said:

I know you fancy blaming him for everything but Tomori was frozen out and then sold under Lampard.

 

Tomori was loaned until the end of the season on 22nd January 2021. Tuchel started 4 days later 26th, (Lampard was sacked on the 25th).

Tomori joined AC Milan permanently on 17th June 2021. He had previously made statements that Tuchel hadn't contacted him at all.

Fikayo Tomori speaks out on lack of contact with Thomas Tuchel | Football | Metro News

Tommy responded thus:

"To be honest, I did not spend too many minutes thinking about him," he admitted. "Every minute I spend here is for the guys here.

"It is tradition at Chelsea that many players are on loan. We will have this talk in the next weeks and months about the guys who are on loan but I have a general impression of Tomori which means he has, of course, high potential."

In short TT could have brought him back at the end of the loan if he had really wanted to. Personally, at the time I thought he made the right decision not to and I still think it now. But as ever in your endless quest to challenge anything, (no matter how small), that you deem a slight on Tuchel, you have again completely missed the underlying point. Which is, it has been common for Chelsea to regularly move on young academy graduates, some of whom haven't had many minutes on the pitch or, been given time to develop. This isn't something Todd and Clearlake have invented.

Edited September 20, 2023 by just

[olderschoolcfc]

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Spot on Jim

Just think what would have happened if we had given all those youngsters game time... I mean... like seriously... All have gone on to be really good premier league players... Tammy Abrahams is a fox in the box, never a target man and has outscored every strike at the bridge since he left (nearly averaging one goal every two games in both league and cup). Yet he wasn't an answer to our goal drought as he wasn't good enough. 

Timori has played very well for AC Milan... but somehow pisses off managers... Wasn't good enough by most fans standards, Marc Guehi never saw the first team yet has recently become an England international and Crystal Palace look very solid with him in it.

The only thing we dont do is give youth from the academy a chance... fans simply dont want to give them time and prefer the foreign 100 million pound signing. We've spent hundreds of millions and sunk further down the league table. That is a statistic I hope the Poch can turn around but should be one to consider before someone types not Chelsea, not Chelsea standard etc.. 

 

 

[Bob stark]

4 hours ago, just said:

It's not exactly new for us though is it? Shipping out academy graduates, some before they were even given a fair chance to kick on. Tuchel's reign saw Tomori, Guehi, Abraham and Gilmour all outed and CHO bombed off on loan to Germany where he failed to impress. And we know that Colwill has said that TT hardly ever acknowledged him. I actually find it quite ironic that when Tuchel binned Billy G, Potter stepped straight in to snap him up for Brighton.

Some managers like working with and developing young players. Some like Tuchel and Mourinho don't seem that keen on it.

Binning player for experience player is not a problem. The more important question is for whom do you bin them for. 

 

 

[just]

15 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Binning player for experience player is not a problem. The more important question is for whom do you bin them for. 

Think there's a lot more to it than that Bob.

Firstly, what the young player sacked off, (whether from our own academy or not), goes on to become. A De Bruyne or Salah hurts like hell but luckily doesn't happen very often, though it looks like we have just had a very close shave with Colwill. Then it's how well the experienced, older player you bring in goes on to perform. And also how much they cost comes into the equation, especially if they are a big flop.

[Bob stark]

6 minutes ago, just said:

Think there's a lot more to it than that Bob.

Firstly, what the young player sacked off, (whether from our own academy or not), goes on to become. A De Bruyne or Salah hurts like hell but luckily doesn't happen very often, though it looks like we have just had a very close shave with Colwill. Then it's how well the experienced, older player you bring in goes on to perform. And also how much they cost comes into the equation, especially if they are a big flop.

My point is that picking Cucu over Colwill or jorgi over Gilmour are just total madness.

Picking Rudiger over Tomori or Lukaku over Tammy or even willian over salah make far more sense. You may say Lukaku bla2 or salah is superstar. Lukaku is better than Tammy, willian may not be a superstar like Salah but he was important for our team especially with Hazard on the other flank. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Bob stark

[Victor90]

1 hour ago, just said:

Tomori was loaned until the end of the season on 22nd January 2021. Tuchel started 4 days later 26th, (Lampard was sacked on the 25th).

Tomori joined AC Milan permanently on 17th June 2021. He had previously made statements that Tuchel hadn't contacted him at all.

Fikayo Tomori speaks out on lack of contact with Thomas Tuchel | Football | Metro News

Tommy responded thus:

"To be honest, I did not spend too many minutes thinking about him," he admitted. "Every minute I spend here is for the guys here.

"It is tradition at Chelsea that many players are on loan. We will have this talk in the next weeks and months about the guys who are on loan but I have a general impression of Tomori which means he has, of course, high potential."

In short TT could have brought him back at the end of the loan if he had really wanted to. Personally, at the time I thought he made the right decision not to and I still think it now. But as ever in your endless quest to challenge anything, (no matter how small), that you deem a slight on Tuchel, you have again completely missed the underlying point. Which is, it has been common for Chelsea to regularly move on young academy graduates, some of whom haven't had many minutes on the pitch or, been given time to develop. This isn't something Todd and Clearlake have invented.

Now now Just, stop triggering the Tuchel fanbase, I'm not going to allow this! 

But seriously, while it looks true that Tommy might not have brought him back, it was Lampard who froze him out in the first place randomly, and bizarrely I might add. He didn't give CHO much of a chance either, whereas TT played him the most since Sarri. 

While Tuchel certainly isn't youth friendly, I wouldn't say he's anti, he did persist with the likes of James and Mount (who went on to be better players under him imo) when many were afraid they would be benched. I think Tuchel being anti-youth is a tad exaggerated, Gilmour as much as I do think the kid has potential, he's also very inconsistent and his lack of physicality shows in many games. 

To be brutally honest I don't think Billy was ever going to develop here, he needs consistent game time. And even though I do think he'll become a top player, I don't think it could ever happen at Chelsea, and in all honesty I would rather have Enzo Fernandez in his position. We tried loaning him out to a PL team and look what happened. 

[just]

2 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Now now Just, stop triggering the Tuchel fanbase, I'm not going to allow this! 

But seriously, while it looks true that Tommy might not have brought him back, it was Lampard who froze him out in the first place randomly, and bizarrely I might add. He didn't give CHO much of a chance either, whereas TT played him the most since Sarri. 

While Tuchel certainly isn't youth friendly, I wouldn't say he's anti, he did persist with the likes of James and Mount (who went on to be better players under him imo) when many were afraid they would be benched. I think Tuchel being anti-youth is a tad exaggerated, Gilmour as much as I do think the kid has potential, he's also very inconsistent and his lack of physicality shows in many games. 

To be brutally honest I don't think Billy was ever going to develop here, he needs consistent game time. And even though I do think he'll become a top player, I don't think it could ever happen at Chelsea, and in all honesty I would rather have Enzo Fernandez in his position. We tried loaning him out to a PL team and look what happened. 

We're straying from the original point again though Vic, but I really don't know if CHO made more appearances under TT than Lampard? Perhaps someone who's good at that sort of thing could find out @Sexyfootball maybe? I do remember Thomas played CHO as a wing-back, something Potter was slaughtered for doing with Sterling even though it was only 2 or 3 times. I also remember TT subbing CHO on in one game and then subbing him off!!

Tomori not being brought back, I could understand. After a good start there were repeat mistakes creeping in mostly down to lapses of concentration and poor decision making. If he was here now, and everyone was fit and available, I really don't think he would get in the team.

As I said earlier Vic, some managers seem to really like working with and developing young players. We know Pochettino was recognised for that in his Tottenham days. IMO Lampard also did it well when he first took over for us, but then he really didn't have much choice at the time given the transfer ban and Hazard leaving!!

[Sexyfootball]

22 minutes ago, just said:

We're straying from the original point again though Vic, but I really don't know if CHO made more appearances under TT than Lampard? Perhaps someone who's good at that sort of thing could find out @Sexyfootball maybe?

Using the appearance data and coach filters that are available on Transfermarkt, I get the following for CHO :

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/392768/plus/0?saison=&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= 

 

 

[PloKoon13]

22 hours ago, just said:

Tommy responded thus:

"To be honest, I did not spend too many minutes thinking about him," he admitted. "Every minute I spend here is for the guys here.

"It is tradition at Chelsea that many players are on loan. We will have this talk in the next weeks and months about the guys who are on loan but I have a general impression of Tomori which means he has, of course, high potential."

I read a hilarious theory from some internet person which claimed that Tuchel doesn't actually watch football outside of his own team and the odd Dortmund game. 

Would explain why he had no idea/interest about any of our loanees, and also why he signed players and then used them to do things they weren't good at (see: Lukaku). 

[Victor90]

17 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Using the appearance data and coach filters that are available on Transfermarkt, I get the following for CHO :

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/392768/plus/0?saison=&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= 

 

 

Actually shocked at how many games he played under Lampard in fairness, I can't remember him playing that much. I do remember Lampard heavily insinuating he needs to work harder in training if he wants to grab a place in the team. 

Either way, since his injury Callum has always been a yard off pace and it's definitely impacted his career, we can't even deny it. He's had some good games, but some shockers aswell, I think his loan in the Bundesliga pretty much sealed his fate. If there was ever a time to prove a point, that was it. So we can't really point the blame, the transfer fee I understand, but at the same time, that was his market value. 

[Drogba1]

21 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Now now Just, stop triggering the Tuchel fanbase, I'm not going to allow this! 

But seriously, while it looks true that Tommy might not have brought him back, it was Lampard who froze him out in the first place randomly, and bizarrely I might add. He didn't give CHO much of a chance either, whereas TT played him the most since Sarri. 

While Tuchel certainly isn't youth friendly, I wouldn't say he's anti, he did persist with the likes of James and Mount (who went on to be better players under him imo) when many were afraid they would be benched. I think Tuchel being anti-youth is a tad exaggerated, Gilmour as much as I do think the kid has potential, he's also very inconsistent and his lack of physicality shows in many games. 

To be brutally honest I don't think Billy was ever going to develop here, he needs consistent game time. And even though I do think he'll become a top player, I don't think it could ever happen at Chelsea, and in all honesty I would rather have Enzo Fernandez in his position. We tried loaning him out to a PL team and look what happened. 

Gilmour was getting game time in his first season, and looked great in some games in the double 6.

 

Though apparently it was Gilmour himself who forced the loan to Norwich because he wanted to start, we needed a CM at the time. 

 

 

[just]

7 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Actually shocked at how many games he played under Lampard in fairness, I can't remember him playing that much. I do remember Lampard heavily insinuating he needs to work harder in training if he wants to grab a place in the team. 

Either way, since his injury Callum has always been a yard off pace and it's definitely impacted his career, we can't even deny it. He's had some good games, but some shockers aswell, I think his loan in the Bundesliga pretty much sealed his fate. If there was ever a time to prove a point, that was it. So we can't really point the blame, the transfer fee I understand, but at the same time, that was his market value. 

Vic it ill be interesting to see if Steve Cooper uses CHO as a wing back!

[Bob stark]

I am glad CHO is doing well in forest. If you want to talk about a real elite prospect, CHO was one. 

He was fast, his dribbling was damn good yet his pass to the box was his best skill-set. 

 

[Gordon Bennett]

From Callum's social media. Bizarre.

 

[Sconnie Blue]

24 minutes ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

From Callum's social media. Bizarre.

 

It's because some d**khead took a 2020 COVID passenger fly list (Both CHO and Arteta are on it) and turned it into Epstein's island visitor list. 

With Epstein's list getting media attention for its reveal, people are tagging CHO on it. 

[Backbiter]

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's because some d**khead took a 2020 COVID passenger fly list (Both CHO and Arteta are on it) and turned it into Epstein's island visitor list. 

With Epstein's list getting media attention for its reveal, people are tagging CHO on it. 

I saw his name circulating the other day, with people on social media convinced it was genuine, even though the court in the US didn't release the first of the names till last night. Shows the extent of disinformation out there. 

[Zeta]

Also, wouldn't he have been like 10 years old at the time... 🤣

[Sconnie Blue]

10 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

I saw his name circulating the other day, with people on social media convinced it was genuine, even though the court in the US didn't release the first of the names till last night. Shows the extent of disinformation out there. 

Always pay attention to community notes. 

[Munkunku]

27 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Also, wouldn't he have been like 10 years old at the time... 🤣

Can’t have a child sex ring without children…

[Ukraine Bolt]

12 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's because some d**khead took a 2020 COVID passenger fly list (Both CHO and Arteta are on it) and turned it into Epstein's island visitor list. 

With Epstein's list getting media attention for its reveal, people are tagging CHO on it. 

Arteta looks the type imo. He's got creepy eyes.

[dermott]

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Arteta looks the type imo. He's got creepy eyes.

And plastic hair.

[Victor90]

I can't lie it always made me laugh when circulating, but unfortunately not every dingbat who reads it is going to think it's a joke.