Callum Hudson-Odoi

[OriginalS]

1 hour ago, BordeauxBlue said:

How could we be any worse? 😭

 

Just been through Paris airport this morning and there were Newcastle fans there having a pint with me at 9am. 

Never imagined it would be borderline embarrassing to admit I'm a Chelsea fan to that lot, as they merrily made their way to a champions league game. 

Let's hope that happier times are round the corner ey? 

It's so absurd isn't it. About 1.5 years ago when it was clear that Clearlake was going to be our new owners Brighton were in 14th place in the Premier League. Newcastle were 13th, we were 3rd and had just beat Real Madrid away from home.
Since then we have spent 700 million net on new players, 200 million have gone directly to Brighton for their "best" resources. Brighton themselves have made a profit of £150 million in the market compared to our £700 million net spend. Newcastle have spent about 200 million net.

And despite all of this, despite us being at the top while Brighton & Newcastle were bottom half battlers we have now been left behind by them to such a degree that I think many rightfully see them as the real teams that belong in the "Big Six" of the Premier League while we've become a mid-table team and a side that will stay in mid-table for the forseeeable future I hear it from everyone, pundits, fans, rival fans and how can you even disagree? It's what we've become.

Whoever defends what been done has got some ulterior motive, they must have.

Edited September 19, 2023 by OriginalS

[PloKoon13]

Said it at the beginning of the season - should have given him the #10 shirt and started him in the season opener. 

The last time we had an extended run of playing seriously good football was when Callum last was a consistent starter. 

[Sconnie Blue]

Why is it every time an ex-player has one good game we all of a sudden immediately jump to the conclusion we shouldn't of sold him? Like clockwork. So reactionary. 

He wasn't good enough for us and was utterly pathetic at Bayer last season under zero pressure to perform. He hardly showed any resoluteness to tailor his game to adapt from his Achilles injury and please, let's not pretend he was some saving grace during that spell in 2021 when the opposition was Norwich, Leicester, and Saints. 

[Scott Harris]

56 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Why is it every time an ex-player has one good game we all of a sudden immediately jump to the conclusion we shouldn't of sold him? Like clockwork. So reactionary. 

He wasn't good enough for us and was utterly pathetic at Bayer last season under zero pressure to perform. He hardly showed any resoluteness to tailor his game to adapt from his Achilles injury and please, let's not pretend he was some saving grace during that spell in 2021 when the opposition was Norwich, Leicester, and Saints. 

Yep. Debut goals are quite common in football anyway, doesn't suddenly mean he is going to be amazing.

I had no issue selling Hudson-Odoi, he's not same winger with rapid pace that he was before his injury and he was dreadful at Leverkusen. My issue is signing players for insane money on players of the same age as him that may not even be any better.

[Victor90]

Suddenly people rate him now? How convenient, everyone bar about 2 people wanted him to go.

He also started playing well on his last loan then fizzled out. One goal in his debut doesn't mean he's going to be a star, we've seen with CHO he has massive consistency issues. 

[just]

4 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

I'm not going to say CHO needed more time here I don't have a problem with him going and I wish him well.

I have a problem with him going for peanuts and us bringing in 2 much less talented much less proven wingers in Mudryk and Madueke for big money.

You can't tell me either of those two are anywhere near as talented as CHO.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you have so much criticism of Madueke. Practically everyone agreed he was one of the very few bright spots from last season. He has only made 8 starts across all competitions and has scored 2 goals. He cost £28 million from PSV, which isn't huge money by today's prices, and he's only turned 21 this year!! Give the kid a chance FFS!

 

[Whats_The_Mata?]

23 minutes ago, just said:

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you have so much criticism of Madueke. Practically everyone agreed he was one of the very few bright spots from last season. He has only made 8 starts across all competitions and has scored 2 goals. He cost £28 million from PSV, which isn't huge money by today's prices, and he's only turned 21 this year!! Give the kid a chance FFS!

 

He's tricky and has quick feet but he's nowhere near good enough he doesn't link up well he doesn't have a good pass or shot and worst of all he can't stay fit and couldn't stay fit before we bought him. an average young talent the kind of player who'll likely be the next Aaron Lennon or Adam Johnson (not in that way) rather than a top player.

Nothing against the Lad he's young but CHO is only 22.  Why spend £30m on an average prospect and let a more talented one who's shown more and is one of our own go for 5?

like almost all our business under Boehly it's baffling.

[just]

17 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

He's tricky and has quick feet but he's nowhere near good enough he doesn't link up well he doesn't have a good pass or shot and worst of all he can't stay fit and couldn't stay fit before we bought him. an average young talent the kind of player who'll likely be the next Aaron Lennon or Adam Johnson (not in that way) rather than a top player.

Nothing against the Lad he's young but CHO is only 22.  Why spend £30m on an average prospect and let a more talented one who's shown more and is one of our own go for 5?

like almost all our business under Boehly it's baffling.

Who knows if he is gonna be the finished article. But Madueke has had a more than decent start in a struggling team low on confidence. And it is way, way, waaaay to early to be writing him off mate. 

[Snedger]

31 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Nothing against the Lad he's young but CHO is only 22.  Why spend £30m on an average prospect and let a more talented one who's shown more and is one of our own go for 5?

I was never really sold on CHO (and a great strike last night doesn’t change that) but you make a very very good point above. That almost perfectly sums up the clubs random and seemingly aimless scattergun transfer policy. And it’s an approach over that last year that has seen us finish 12th and now sit 14th with nothing but tenuous reasoning and blind faith that we can improve much upon it.

[nonotnowjim]

Our fans have a habit of conflating issues.

Selling Tammy was not the problem, it was replacing him with Lukaku. 

Selling Tomori or Guehi was not the problem. It was replacing them for huge money, with the likes of Koulibally or an injury prone Fofana 

Selling CHO wasn't the problem - it was replacing him solely with overpriced potential and unproven youth. 

Selling any of these players was probably, on balance, the right thing. Unfortunately our incoming transfers have been poor, and therefore, it makes our fans wish for mediocre players we have sold.

[Snedger]

25 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

our incoming transfers have been poor, and therefore, it makes our fans wish for mediocre players we have sold.

It’s so depressing to read that unpleasant truth. Especially coming from someone who isn’t on the Shed End official doom and gloom merchant list.

Still, there will always be the cultists that really believe that Mudryk and co will be fighting over the Balon d’Or whilst tripping over PL and CL trophies in the coming seasons.

[Whats_The_Mata?]

1 hour ago, Snedger said:

I was never really sold on CHO (and a great strike last night doesn’t change that) but you make a very very good point above. That almost perfectly sums up the clubs random and seemingly aimless scattergun transfer policy. And it’s an approach over that last year that has seen us finish 12th and now sit 14th with nothing but tenuous reasoning and blind faith that we can improve much upon it.

It's not just the owners I think a lot of people backing them are jumping through increasingly small hoops to defend our terrible business.

Madueke is nowhere near as talented as CHO but he deserves time while Callum had to be sold?

And more glaringly Mudryk is nowhere and I mean nowhere near as talented as Joao Felix.  Don't think you'd find a honest person on the planet who would argue they're even comparable it's like they play different sports yet some of our supporters said Joao wasn't good enough as a 23 year old based on a 6 month loan were he was our best attacker but we should to give years to players around the same age who aren't as good and have less than a quarter of his talent?

Make it make sense.

[forbzy]

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Our fans have a habit of conflating issues.

Selling Tammy was not the problem, it was replacing him with Lukaku. 

Selling Tomori or Guehi was not the problem. It was replacing them for huge money, with the likes of Koulibally or an injury prone Fofana 

Selling CHO wasn't the problem - it was replacing him solely with overpriced potential and unproven youth. 

Selling any of these players was probably, on balance, the right thing. Unfortunately our incoming transfers have been poor, and therefore, it makes our fans wish for mediocre players we have sold.

Assuming Madueke is regarded as the replacement for CHO, it is way too early to know whether he will be an improvement. He has shown some promise at times but has not really had a ton of starts to show what he can do. The question is whether signings like Madueke and other wingers signed for expensive fees on potential alone were worth the relatively big outlay when CHO arguably could have done about the same for nothing given the equivalent minutes.

I wish CHO the best and I suspect he will at least get a decent amount of opportunities at Forest. It will be interesting to see if he can recapture some of the form that he showed before his injuries. Certainly he is off to a good start there.

 

[kennypaul]

6 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Why is it every time an ex-player has one good game we all of a sudden immediately jump to the conclusion we shouldn't of sold him? Like clockwork. So reactionary. 

He wasn't good enough for us and was utterly pathetic at Bayer last season under zero pressure to perform. He hardly showed any resoluteness to tailor his game to adapt from his Achilles injury and please, let's not pretend he was some saving grace during that spell in 2021 when the opposition was Norwich, Leicester, and Saints. 

I agree. my only surprise was how little we sold him for.

[icecoolguy22]

Doesn't bother me much, if we send Mudryk to Forest or Burnley for a loan, he will score some goals and have some good games, doesn't mean he will replicate that playing for Chelsea.

[Victor90]

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Our fans have a habit of conflating issues.

Selling Tammy was not the problem, it was replacing him with Lukaku. 

Selling Tomori or Guehi was not the problem. It was replacing them for huge money, with the likes of Koulibally or an injury prone Fofana 

Selling CHO wasn't the problem - it was replacing him solely with overpriced potential and unproven youth. 

Selling any of these players was probably, on balance, the right thing. Unfortunately our incoming transfers have been poor, and therefore, it makes our fans wish for mediocre players we have sold.

Unsure if it's a Chelsea thing or what but it's common with our fanbase. I think mainly because we've let so many players go who've gone on to be good players. 

I don't think letting Matic go both times was a bad idea, he would never have developed at Chelsea like he did at Benfica, and we were right to sell him to United. Our problem was that we replaced him with Bakayoko. You can rightfully let a player go, while also getting a sh*t replacement in, both things can be true at once. 

But I do think some of it is just outright negativity, if we were to let Mudryk go, we'd hear the exact same comments. I do think the money we got for CHO is a joke compared to what we get charged for average players, but unfortunately, that was his market value. Nobody wanted to pay any decent fee for him since he couldn't even play regularly in the Bundesliga, why would any English team want to splash even 20 odd million on him? 

[Gordon Bennett]

We let Callum go for a derisory amount of money. I imagine part of that was because we didn't get a better offer,  and part was due to wanting to get his £180,000 pw salary off the books.

[dkw]

15 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Why is it every time an ex-player has one good game we all of a sudden immediately jump to the conclusion we shouldn't of sold him? Like clockwork. So reactionary. 

He wasn't good enough for us and was utterly pathetic at Bayer last season under zero pressure to perform. He hardly showed any resoluteness to tailor his game to adapt from his Achilles injury and please, let's not pretend he was some saving grace during that spell in 2021 when the opposition was Norwich, Leicester, and Saints. 

Its ok, I`m sure the same people will come one here and tell us about the games where he`s subbed off early after having no impact, just for balance....

[coco]

40 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its ok, I`m sure the same people will come one here and tell us about the games where he`s subbed off early after having no impact, just for balance....

More or less the same could be said of every Chelsea player the last 2 seasons, no impact, despite breaking transfer records.

[PloKoon13]

In my defence, this particular bit is one I've been doing for a while. Was going to say 'best winger at the club' but thought that might be pushing it too far even for me.

Maybe if we didn't have Sterling... 

[coco]

6 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

We let Callum go for a derisory amount of money. I imagine part of that was because we didn't get a better offer,  and part was due to wanting to get his £180,000 pw salary off the books.

Even if we sold him for £50-60m we would only go and waste the money on a vanity signing.

[OriginalS]

5 minutes ago, coco said:

Even if we sold him for £50-60m we would only go and waste the money on a vanity signing.

What most people have a problem with is that we'll have sold or will sell this Academy crop for about 160 million:

Mount, Loftus Cheek, Chalobah*, Maatsen*, Lewis Hall, Billy Gilmour, Hudson Odoi, Ampadu.

*Will be sold in January or summer for me.

We spend 160 million on absolutely nothing these days. It's Mudryk + two or three unproven lads from South America. For that we'll have sold off almost all our academy graduates by the time Gallagher have been moved on in addition to those mentioned. Good academy graduates as well that have performed for the club and had a connection to the club and fans and knew what this club was about.

It just doesn't make sense from a financial perspective (long term) or a club perspective. Clearly directors and owners think it does but i'm certainly not seeing it.

Edited September 20, 2023 by OriginalS

[Gordon Bennett]

54 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

What most people have a problem with is that we'll have sold or will sell this Academy crop for about 160 million:

Mount, Loftus Cheek, Chalobah*, Maatsen*, Lewis Hall, Billy Gilmour, Hudson Odoi, Ampadu.

*Will be sold in January or summer for me.

We spend 160 million on absolutely nothing these days. It's Mudryk + two or three unproven lads from South America. For that we'll have sold off almost all our academy graduates by the time Gallagher have been moved on in addition to those mentioned. Good academy graduates as well that have performed for the club and had a connection to the club and fans and knew what this club was about.

It just doesn't make sense from a financial perspective (long term) or a club perspective. Clearly directors and owners think it does but i'm certainly not seeing it.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense at all. Over the past few seasons we should have been bringing through the academy graduates and supplementing with high quality signings.

[just]

It's not exactly new for us though is it? Shipping out academy graduates, some before they were even given a fair chance to kick on. Tuchel's reign saw Tomori, Guehi, Abraham and Gilmour all outed and CHO bombed off on loan to Germany where he failed to impress. And we know that Colwill has said that TT hardly ever acknowledged him. I actually find it quite ironic that when Tuchel binned Billy G, Potter stepped straight in to snap him up for Brighton.

Some managers like working with and developing young players. Some like Tuchel and Mourinho don't seem that keen on it.

[OriginalS]

55 minutes ago, just said:

It's not exactly new for us though is it? Shipping out academy graduates, some before they were even given a fair chance to kick on. Tuchel's reign saw Tomori, Guehi, Abraham and Gilmour all outed and CHO bombed off on loan to Germany where he failed to impress. And we know that Colwill has said that TT hardly ever acknowledged him. I actually find it quite ironic that when Tuchel binned Billy G, Potter stepped straight in to snap him up for Brighton.

Some managers like working with and developing young players. Some like Tuchel and Mourinho don't seem that keen on it.

I know you fancy blaming him for everything but Tomori was frozen out and then sold under Lampard.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by OriginalS