Wouldn't want Southgate. He's a great international manager, but club is different.

International means motivating players short term. Ironically our last two managers are great at that. Conte and Sarri both got our team playing well for 6 months. Conte got Italy playing well. 

But after that, it's a different skill. I think Southgate would struggle when his system needs changing, when he needs to drop a big name player. When a dip in form comes in. All these are things we haven't seen (because we don't need to).

1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

Wouldn't want Southgate. He's a great international manager, but club is different.

International means motivating players short term. Ironically our last two managers are great at that. Conte and Sarri both got our team playing well for 6 months. Conte got Italy playing well. 

But after that, it's a different skill. I think Southgate would struggle when his system needs changing, when he needs to drop a big name player. When a dip in form comes in. All these are things we haven't seen (because we don't need to).

Although i agree i don't think Southgate is the man for us at club level he has been pretty good at some of the things you highlighted. 

He's changed the system a number of times with England to suit the players he has. Started with a back 4, played 3 at the back for the world cup and has now gone to a 4-3-3. Also seems okay dropping big players as he came into England and got rid of older players in favour of youth.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Although i agree i don't think Southgate is the man for us at club level he has been pretty good at some of the things you highlighted. 

He's changed the system a number of times with England to suit the players he has. Started with a back 4, played 3 at the back for the world cup and has now gone to a 4-3-3. Also seems okay dropping big players as he came into England and got rid of older players in favour of youth.

It's different though when you change it for 2 games every 3 months to needing to change it every other week or on the fly. He played the same formation every game at the world cup. Hes played 4-3-3- every game since. 

He also does like to stick with players, trippier ahead of wan basaka. Smalling still not got a look in. Theres issues he has that would be magnified at club level. 

 

Love the guy, but he's not shown me anything that means he's better than Sarri. 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Although i agree i don't think Southgate is the man for us at club level he has been pretty good at some of the things you highlighted. 

He's changed the system a number of times with England to suit the players he has. Started with a back 4, played 3 at the back for the world cup and has now gone to a 4-3-3. Also seems okay dropping big players as he came into England and got rid of older players in favour of youth.

I thought his England World Cup performance was vastly overrated. 

We were lucky against the likes of Colombia and whenever we faced a good team we got smashed. A back 3 with a 5'8 Kyle Walker there? It's no wonder Perisic had the time of his life in that game, almost all of his goals came off Walker. 

But having said that, it's a breath of fresh at how interested he is at playing youth, very unlikely for an England boss in my time. 

14 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

It's different though when you change it for 2 games every 3 months to needing to change it every other week or on the fly. He played the same formation every game at the world cup. Hes played 4-3-3- every game since. 

He also does like to stick with players, trippier ahead of wan basaka. Smalling still not got a look in. Theres issues he has that would be magnified at club level. 

 

Love the guy, but he's not shown me anything that means he's better than Sarri. 

But the point is he does change it though, he can't exactly mix it up more than every few months when that's the only time he has games. He played 3 at the back at the world cup because it worked, no point changing a winning formula. Our strength was in defense so made sense to utilise that. Since the world cup he could easily have stuck with 3 at the back but realised we had an abundance of talent on the wings so has swapped it up to suit.

Wan Bassaka was unheard of before this season. For the one example of Wan Bassaka not getting a chance (yet), he's given the likes of Sancho, CHO, Keane, Rice etc. game time over more experienced and favoured players.

P.S. Smalling is dos sh*t, who should he be getting game time over?

14 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I thought his England World Cup performance was vastly overrated. 

We were lucky against the likes of Colombia and whenever we faced a good team we got smashed. A back 3 with a 5'8 Kyle Walker there? It's no wonder Perisic had the time of his life in that game, almost all of his goals came off Walker. 

But having said that, it's a breath of fresh at how interested he is at playing youth, very unlikely for an England boss in my time. 

Not really sure how getting to a world cup semi with Jordan Henderson anchoring can be overrated.

When Conte stuck Azpi at RB it was a genius move, but when Southgate does it with Walker it doesn't make sense? It added much needed pace into that back line. Perisic would have had a lot more fun running past a traditional CB.

1 minute ago, RIP Mourinho said:

But the point is he does change it though, he can't exactly mix it up more than every few months when that's the only time he has games. He played 3 at the back at the world cup because it worked, no point changing a winning formula. Our strength was in defense so made sense to utilise that. Since the world cup he could easily have stuck with 3 at the back but realised we had an abundance of talent on the wings so has swapped it up to suit.

Wan Bassaka was unheard of before this season. For the one example of Wan Bassaka not getting a chance (yet), he's given the likes of Sancho, CHO, Keane, Rice etc. game time over more experienced and favoured players.

P.S. Smalling is dos sh*t, who should he be getting game time over?

Not really sure how getting to a world cup semi with Jordan Henderson anchoring can be overrated.

When Conte stuck Azpi at RB it was a genius move, but when Southgate does it with Walker it doesn't make sense? It added much needed pace into that back line. Perisic would have had a lot more fun running past a traditional CB.

You know how... 

Who did England play to get there? Remind me. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

You know how... 

Who did England play to get there? Remind me. 

Can only beat what's in front of you. Everyone makes out Croatia had a good world cup yet only beat Denmark, Russia and England to get to the final, whilst having the best player in the world playing for them (Modric winning Ballon D'or). Are Denmark and Russia better than Columbia and Sweden? And they then got humiliated against France.

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Can only beat what's in front of you. Everyone makes out Croatia had a good world cup yet only beat Denmark, Russia and England to get to the final, whilst having the best player in the world playing for them (Modric winning Ballon D'or). Are Denmark and Russia better than Columbia and Sweden? And they then got humiliated against France.

I think with Croatia though is that they had really good players, on paper they had much better players than us. 

But the whole East side of the tournament was easy for us, the west side of the tournament had all the best teams playing each other, France without a doubt deserved that World Cup. 

England's run for me is very overrated, I think we showed our true quality when we got pounced by Belgium again in the battle for 3rd place. 

Agree France deserved it in the end, wouldn't put it past them winning the next Euro's either but could see England doing well.

 

Imo that 3rd place play off against Belgium felt like a friendly, looked like it for the players too.  The fact we started with Phil Jones, Loftus Cheek, Dier and Delph says as much, whilst Belgium pretty much started their strongest 11.

58 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Wan Bassaka was unheard of before this season. For the one example of Wan Bassaka not getting a chance (yet), he's given the likes of Sancho, CHO, Keane, Rice etc. game time over more experienced and favoured players.

 P.S. Smalling is dos sh*t, who should he be getting game time over?

 

 

Sancho is in the team because he's one of the best players in Europe on current form. You'd be mad not to include him. Rice likewise, is one of the best DMs in England, let along English DMs. 

CHO is in the team because everyone was injured.

 

Smalling is better than Keane + Tarkowski. 

13 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

 

Sancho is in the team because he's one of the best players in Europe on current form. You'd be mad not to include him. Rice likewise, is one of the best DMs in England, let along English DMs. 

CHO is in the team because everyone was injured.

 

Smalling is better than Keane + Tarkowski. 

Would another manager have used Sancho so freely? I doubt it. Especially not before Christmas like Southgate did.

Rice isn't one of the best DM's in England ha ha ha. Amazing what a couple of weeks good form could do for opinions on a player. Henderson and Dier are better and more experienced at the moment. Could argue Drinkwater and Lewis Cook are currently better too.

He didn't have to start CHO against Montenegro, could easily have left Sancho in the team or chose the easy option and called up someone like Townsend, Antonio, Walcott, Redmond etc.

Smalling absolutely isn't better than either of those two. Been a donkey for years. 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Would another manager have used Sancho so freely? I doubt it. Especially not before Christmas like Southgate did.

 Rice isn't one of the best DM's in England ha ha ha. Amazing what a couple of weeks good form could do for opinions on a player. Henderson and Dier are better and more experienced at the moment. Could argue Drinkwater and Lewis Cook are currently better too.

 He didn't have to start CHO against Montenegro, could easily have left Sancho in the team or chose the easy option and called up someone like Townsend, Antonio, Walcott, Redmond etc.

Smalling absolutely isn't better than either of those two. Been a donkey for years. 

Madness

Sancho was had a fitness test, he just played CHO because he was fresher. 

Henderson and Dier are ahead of Rice in Southgates pecking order. But no one else. But I think Rice is better than Dier. 

Agree to disagree on Smalling. 

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Imo that 3rd place play off against Belgium felt like a friendly, looked like it for the players too.  The fact we started with Phil Jones, Loftus Cheek, Dier and Delph says as much, whilst Belgium pretty much started their strongest 11.

Says more about Belgium for me, while we were willing to give fringe players a run-out Belgium were focused on achieving their best ever WC result.

This guy is too English - bad mentality, clumsy, terrible first touch, doesn't know where he stands, puts the team at huge risk almost every game he plays. We should stop using him before Ruben just as fast as we should stop using Pedro before CHO. 

Edited April 1, 20197 yr by Droopy

Where was that good Barkely from Last October, or the one played for England last week? He just looked clumsy and wasteful.

Very sloppy with the ball, clumsy in possession. Not really good enough.

1 hour ago, Droopy said:

This guy is too English - bad mentality, clumsy, terrible first touch, doesn't know where he stands, puts the team at huge risk almost every game he plays. We should stop using him before Ruben just as fast as we should stop using Pedro before CHO. 

Too English? Sorry i'm struggling to see the link here. Ruben is English too, really not sure what Nationality has to do with your post. 

BTW, CHO is English too. Surely we shouldn't be using him ahead of Pedro in that case.

Weird choice of words.

The fact that he even starts for us is very concerning and tells you all you need to know about the quality currently in our midfield. He's simply not good enough. I have no idea what Southgate whispers into his ear before the game starts that turns him into an actual good footballer. 

I can't fault Barkley too much though cause he does try his best and gives it 100%.

The Barkley at Everton (pre-injury) looked much more dynamic and attacking. Makes you wonder how that injury has affected him and if it's a mentality issue with him.

He can pull out a decent performance for England against minnows, but against a good PL side he looks mediocre. He isn't very press resistant at all which is another big problem. 

3 hours ago, enigma said:

The Barkley at Everton (pre-injury) looked much more dynamic and attacking. Makes you wonder how that injury has affected him and if it's a mentality issue with him.

He can pull out a decent performance for England against minnows, but against a good PL side he looks mediocre. He isn't very press resistant at all which is another big problem. 

Seeing him play for England and then play for us, it's clear to me what the problem is. We play too slow and too often Barkley is playing with his back to goal, which is something he is awful at. With England, it's the complete opposite. He's attacking with pace and with intent, he's more often than not facing the goal and he's getting into better attacking areas on the pitch. So basically, Sarri isn't using him correctly.

Just maybe with England's faster forwards he has more time and space in which to venture forward. 

Good to see his minutes have been reduced. Plays way too safe.

I hope we give Mason Mount the same amount of chances Barkley has been getting. 

Everton is his level; shouldn’t be at a top 4 team. Other than his homegrown status, I struggle to see what he brings in the long term.

When you consider someone like Brandt is 3yrs younger and available for a rumoured £25m fee, the lack of clarity on the appeal is a bummer. Brandt will likely end up at Dortmund along with Thorgan Hazard, and be on the market for £100m in 2yrs.

2 hours ago, Remodez said:

I hope we give Mason Mount the same amount of chances Barkley has been getting. 

Do you think he could do it? 

I haven't watched much of him at Derby but I've heard good things.