As for wanting us to adapt, have a plan B and all that, but still show ambition in the transfer market. Look at it like a math equation:

(players that suit plan A) + (players that suit plan B) = money spent

If one of these addends equals zero, you can get away with spending less money (or, spend more to perfect our style of play).

Our only chance in establishing ourselves as a consistent (not falling out of the CL every other year) club right now, given our resources, is by adopting one style of play and go all out on that particular style.

It's our only way of establishing a proper scouting network, so that we can buy the Icardi's, Werner's and Aouar's of the world, before they cost 100 million quid.

There is still a mental fragility in this squad which has been an ongoing thing since mourinho was here. 

The only way forward is to go all in on a manager, provide him with quality players, and don't pull the trigger at the 1st sign of trouble. 

We could've done it with conte, but the costa debacle lead to no extension, massive compromises in the transfer market, squad discontent, and some really poor perfomances. Conte is a world class manager, but off field mistakes from himself and the board made his position untenable.

We have to learn from that, show some patience with sarri, give him the level and type of player he needs to compete, and ship out the dead wood, and the weak minded players that have let us down in the past. 

Sarri isnt a miracle worker, we still have the same group of attackers and defenders that struggled last season. We have some better options in midfield, and I think we are doing okay in that department, still not perfect, but much better than last season.

We need to move away from this win now mentally. It's a process that requires faith and patience.

There were some stats floating about earlier on social media. Apparently after 15 games, In Pep's first season he had achieved 30 points with City. I believe it was 27 points that Klopp had achieved with Pool, and Sarri has achieved 31 points. We have to believe in the process. We have done much better than originally expected, and we aren't going to win every game. 

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by enigma

4 hours ago, big blue said:

There is still a mental fragility in this squad which has been an ongoing thing since mourinho was here. 

The only way forward is to go all in on a manager, provide him with quality players, and don't pull the trigger at the 1st sign of trouble. 

We could've done it with conte, but the costa debacle lead to no extension, massive compromises in the transfer market, squad discontent, and some really poor perfomances. Conte is a world class manager, but off field mistakes from himself and the board made his position untenable.

We have to learn from that, show some patience with sarri, give him the level and type of player he needs to compete, and ship out the dead wood, and the weak minded players that have let us down in the past. 

Sarri isnt a miracle worker, we still have the same group of attackers and defenders that struggled last season. We have some better options in midfield, and I think we are doing okay in that department, still not perfect, but much better than last season.

We need to move away from this win now mentally. It's a process that requires faith and patience.

In hindsight Conte would never have been here long term and would never do more than 3 years anywhere, he's too destructive and even walked out on his beloved Juve because he didn't get his own way. Re your last line i think that's the plan, we wouldn't appoint a purist still awaiting his first piece of silverware if the plan was to sack him after a few bad results, we may aswell re appoint Jose, Hiddink or Rafa if that's the plan.

2 hours ago, enigma said:

There were some stats floating about earlier on social media. Apparently after 15 games, In Pep's first season he had achieved 30 points with City. I believe it was 27 points that Klopp had achieved with Pool, and Sarri has achieved 31 points. We have to believe in the process. We have done much better than originally expected, and we aren't going to win every game. 

We do but if we miss out on top 4 he will get sacked Imo.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

We do but if we miss out on top 4 he will get sacked Imo.

I dont think he will be sacked if we miss top 4. However, if our table positions is more in the range of 8th or lower and are not in a position to win the Europa league or the FA cup then yeah - he will be fired most likely.

Do we know anything about our training regimen - the one thing i am noticing as the games are progressing is that our overall pace and quickness seems to be slow. Sure, there are moments of pace where we see a few people sprint around but overall when it comes to passing the ball or sprinting with the ball we seem to be slower overall. Are the players tired ? Is a major rotation of the order or are the players just losing concentration/get disinterested.

Too many variables for me to have confidence.

Key will be the players reactions as we enter the winter period with games every three days.

The loss against Wolves and on this a couple of us argued he should play his strongest side as the risk of two concurrent defeats could be problematic especially  so soon after Spurs.

We are now facing this situation with the team lacking confidence and Sarri's methods looking inflexible.

They appear too rigid while he lacks the players to execute them adequately. 

January sales might bring some relief yet we have four league matches in December alone as well as Europa and League Cup 1/4.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, enigma said:

There were some stats floating about earlier on social media. Apparently after 15 games, In Pep's first season he had achieved 30 points with City. I believe it was 27 points that Klopp had achieved with Pool, and Sarri has achieved 31 points. We have to believe in the process. We have done much better than originally expected, and we aren't going to win every game. 

To be fair though, stats like that are pretty meaningless. Don't get me wrong, up until recent weeks I have been impressed with the start Sarri made but it is pointless comparing his start to Peps or Klopps as a big factor is the opposition they would have had to play (home & away), injuries etc.

I really do hope Sarri does well and we can have a coach long-term (at least until Lamps & Jody have done their apprenticeship at Derby!). But it is early days and he still has a lot to prove. Someone like Guadiola would always be given more time after a disappointing first season due to his pedigree / track record. Unfortunately for Sarri he is a 60 year old guy who has won nothing in the game and is now at a club who have a record of axing coaches as soon as things aren't going too well so he'd be well advised to not drag his feet. 

If we don't have the players for Plan A, then surely we should adjust what Plan A is, work our way slowly up to what Sarri wants, utilising the players we currently have.

 

Thanks for pointing that out about Pep. I hope Sarri can adapt by at least playing a defensive player like Kante in front of our defenders. Even Pep who strongly believe in attacking football plays Fenandinho and sometimes Walker in front of his defence.

Both Klopp & Pep have evolved there teams, adapted to the premier league, Pep especially isn’t playing as he was in other leagues, he’s adapted to the league he in!

There were some stats floating about earlier on social media. Apparently after 15 games, In Pep's first season he had achieved 30 points with City. I believe it was 27 points that Klopp had achieved with Pool, and Sarri has achieved 31 points. We have to believe in the process. We have done much better than originally expected, and we aren't going to win every game. 

To be honest, I don't believe in Sarri from day 1, but am willing to give him this season and next season to prove me wrong provided we always end up in the top 4 even without winning any trophy. But the problem I have with him is the way we always give the opposing team clear cut chances to score us in every single game we have played this season doesn't feel me with confidence and the way Arsenal is playing right now, I don't even see top 4 as a realistic target, so am worried!

In hindsight Conte would never have been here long term and would never do more than 3 years anywhere, he's too destructive and even walked out on his beloved Juve because he didn't get his own way. Re your last line i think that's the plan, we wouldn't appoint a purist still awaiting his first piece of silverware if the plan was to sack him after a few bad results, we may aswell re appoint Jose, Hiddink or Rafa if that's the plan.

I don't think Conte is too destructive. I think he a man with great ambitions, he never settle for less. He wants to win something every single season, so when see a player or the board trying to be an obstacles to his goals he gets uncontrollably angry with SOMETIMES bad consequences.
GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS AND YOU ARE GUARANTEED A TROPHY EVERY SEASON!
Watch out, he can't be out of job for long, everyone likes a winner.

56 minutes ago, wallosh said:

I don't think Conte is too destructive. I think he a man with great ambitions, he never settle for less. He wants to win something every single season, so when see a player or the board trying to be an obstacles to his goals he gets uncontrollably angry with SOMETIMES bad consequences.
GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS AND YOU ARE GUARANTEED A TROPHY EVERY SEASON!
Watch out, he can't be out of job for long, everyone likes a winner.

Real Madrid wanted Conte yet their senior players didn't.  I guess players multi-lingual players from EPL and Serie A talk a bit.

That suggests to me that Conte might struggle unless he goes to a club with a new sugar daddy and the nous to buy hungry decent players. After Baka and Morata thought to be Conte's choice that might also go against him.

4 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Real Madrid wanted Conte yet their senior players didn't.  I guess players multi-lingual players from EPL and Serie A talk a bit.

Or Chelsea did some talking. The 'player veto' is all paper talk.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Stim

I'm not so sure it was on BBC football focus program, an Italian named reporter said RM had agreed terms with Conte it was the players that protested. 

Had a bit of a shocker at today’s press conference.

“Impossible to beat City in the long run”

“Doesn’t know how to beat a team like City”

Not the kind of comments I expect to hear from a Chelsea-manager.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Sindre

1 hour ago, wallosh said:

I don't think Conte is too destructive. I think he a man with great ambitions, he never settle for less. He wants to win something every single season, so when see a player or the board trying to be an obstacles to his goals he gets uncontrollably angry with SOMETIMES bad consequences.
GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS AND YOU ARE GUARANTEED A TROPHY EVERY SEASON!
Watch out, he can't be out of job for long, everyone likes a winner.

A winner that loves to winge.

Theres some real tosh on here regarding how Pochetti and Eddie Howe and Sari are somehow not great coaches because they haven’t won any silverware to date. 

Trophys don’t get spread around much in Italy or England. There are probably managers operating in the lower leagues who could succeed in the top flight if they had the tools to do the job.

I don’t believe the role of coach/ manager is much different now to when the game was first played 150 years ago, yet what is new is the media’s fixation with them.

Eg Headlines  “ Pedro sinks Klopp”

Teams are now referred to as for instance “ Jose Mourinho’s Man Utd”

When Liverpool we’re cleaning up in the 80s I don’t remember them being called “ Bob Paisleys Liverpool”

MOTD used to introduce games with the graphic logos of the clubs badges, now there’s an image of the teams manager instead. All bollox if you ask me.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Had a bit of a shocker at today’s press conference.

“Impossible to beat City in the long run”

“Doesn’t know how to beat a team like City”

Not the kind of comments I expect to hear from a Chelsea-manager.

Tell me he didnt say that........doesnt give the players any confidence that.  

12 minutes ago, atomis said:

Tell me he didnt say that........doesnt give the players any confidence that.  

Another snippet from the presser "We need to have a collective target, we need determination, at the moment they are stronger than us, but our final target is to be the best in Europe. Anything can happen and we have to believe in it."

On 06/12/2018 at 00:04, Dixon said:

The hard facts are that Roman has sacked a World Cup and CL winning manager half way thru a season. We've taken a big punt on an elderly manager who's never won a sausage and after a promising first half a dozen games, things started to stagnate and then go significantly backwards. Too many fans were blinkered just looking at league position and results rather than actual performances and opposition missing clear cut chances. Sad to say, Sarri is already looking way out of his depth and doesn't know what to do next.  He put all his eggs into the basket of the absolutely woeful Jorginho and now what? Unless we win the Europa League we have almost zero chance of being in the CL next year, and would mean a massive change of philosophy from Roman if he is to be in charge next season.

The only thing in Sarri's favour for him being in charge next season is where the hell the club would go next??? Whatever happens and whoever is in charge the next season or two, the team needs a massive overhall over the next couple of seasons. Try and keep Hazard to go forward with Kante, Rudiger and RLC and keep Barkley, William, Dave and Pedro as squad players. Bin the rest over the next two years.

Does that really matter though? i mean why doesn't Di Matteo get linked with any of the top jobs i mean he's won a champions league and a FA cup and that's more than Kloop and Pochetinno have done, two of the best managers in the EPL. Isn't that you logic? Sarri not wining anything major doesn't mean much to me, style of football means more these days than trophies otherwise Sarri wouldn't of got the Chelsea job in the first place. Klopp and Pochetinno have won nothing at their clubs but nobody wants them sacked, Mourinho has won everything and he's struggling in 8th but everyone wants him sacked because of the style of play.

Sarri style of play even in these early months has been good to watch, will get even better when he has a proper pre season, buy some better players and the team gets use to how he wants them to play. We see it in flashes in games. Guardiola had a poor first season, spanked by Everton and Leicester for example, now look at them.

Not sure what everyone is moaning at we are where we are suppose to be, fourth place right in contention for top four place. We were never going to win the league. We need to give Sarri time and spend wisely like we did in the summer. No more Zappacosta's and Drinkwater and Bakayakos. I have a good feeling about a positive result on Saturday.

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

To be fair though, stats like that are pretty meaningless. Don't get me wrong, up until recent weeks I have been impressed with the start Sarri made but it is pointless comparing his start to Peps or Klopps as a big factor is the opposition they would have had to play (home & away), injuries etc.

I really do hope Sarri does well and we can have a coach long-term (at least until Lamps & Jody have done their apprenticeship at Derby!). But it is early days and he still has a lot to prove. Someone like Guadiola would always be given more time after a disappointing first season due to his pedigree / track record. Unfortunately for Sarri he is a 60 year old guy who has won nothing in the game and is now at a club who have a record of axing coaches as soon as things aren't going too well so he'd be well advised to not drag his feet. 

It's more impressive from Sarri imo due to where we were as a team; the style of play we were coming off from Conte and Jose; the competition this season compared to Pep's first season is arguably superior from top to bottom, and also City had a better team when Pep took over. 

God the stigma on Sarri has really flipped hasn’t it. 

Sarri’s philosophy is based on defending in a completely different way to other managers. He wants his players to defend in terms of where the ball is and the press is dependent on every player moving as a TEAM.

Clearly at the moment the players aren’t doing this properly and that’s why we’re giving away so many chances. 

In the ‘’offensive phase’’ we have Willian, Morata, Alonso & Luiz who aren’t up to the standard we are desperately craving. Couple that with the imbalance in the midfield and Sarri really is facing an uphill battle.

Have said it before but we’re 4/5 players away from challenging for the PL and in the CL.

We need to be patient and give the man time and money to implement his ethos.

 

42 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Does that really matter though? i mean why doesn't Di Matteo get linked with any of the top jobs i mean he's won a champions league and a FA cup and that's more than Kloop and Pochetinno have done, two of the best managers in the EPL. Isn't that you logic? Sarri not wining anything major doesn't mean much to me, style of football means more these days than trophies otherwise Sarri wouldn't of got the Chelsea job in the first place. Klopp and Pochetinno have won nothing at their clubs but nobody wants them sacked, Mourinho has won everything and he's struggling in 8th but everyone wants him sacked because of the style of play.

Sarri style of play even in these early months has been good to watch, will get even better when he has a proper pre season, buy some better players and the team gets use to how he wants them to play. We see it in flashes in games. Guardiola had a poor first season, spanked by Everton and Leicester for example, now look at them.

Not sure what everyone is moaning at we are where we are suppose to be, fourth place right in contention for top four place. We were never going to win the league. We need to give Sarri time and spend wisely like we did in the summer. No more Zappacosta's and Drinkwater and Bakayakos. I have a good feeling about a positive result on Saturday.

Excellent post. Style of play means very little to many on here. They’d be happy watching any old dross ( on telly rather than actually attending games no doubt), providing there was silverware in May.

The only reason a lot of them became Chelsea “ fans” in the first place is reflected glory.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Ewell CFC

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Had a bit of a shocker at today’s press conference.

“Impossible to beat City in the long run”

“Doesn’t know how to beat a team like City”

Not the kind of comments I expect to hear from a Chelsea-manager.

He didn't say any of that, why lie?

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by dkw