Since I last posted in this thread, the side has regressed rather than kicking on as they looked like doing.

I do think that Sarri has been somewhat stubborn with his selections (playing Willian/Alonso too much), but I also think that with the fixture pile-up the side are struggling to play the high-pressing, high-possession style we saw up until October or thereabouts. 

As has been pointed out, Pedro/Willian are ageing and so can't press as effectively as they used to over 90 minutes.

For now I will reserve judgement. If we wind up playing lifeless football for months on end then either the personnel or the manager need to be examined. 

Some posters here are rarely confused with a ray of sunshine.

Greycloud plastics, moan if they’ve got nothing to moan about, remind me a bit of Harry Enfields Kevin the Teenager.

” The manager isn’t being backed, City are miles better than us, there’s no plan B, it’s soooo unfair”

 

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by Ewell CFC

7 hours ago, Dixon said:

The hard facts are that Roman has sacked a World Cup and CL winning manager half way thru a season. We've taken a big punt on an elderly manager who's never won a sausage and after a promising first half a dozen games, things started to stagnate and then go significantly backwards. Too many fans were blinkered just looking at league position and results rather than actual performances and opposition missing clear cut chances. Sad to say, Sarri is already looking way out of his depth and doesn't know what to do next.  He put all his eggs into the basket of the absolutely woeful Jorginho and now what? Unless we win the Europa League we have almost zero chance of being in the CL next year, and would mean a massive change of philosophy from Roman if he is to be in charge next season.

The only thing in Sarri's favour for him being in charge next season is where the hell the club would go next??? Whatever happens and whoever is in charge the next season or two, the team needs a massive overhall over the next couple of seasons. Try and keep Hazard to go forward with Kante, Rudiger and RLC and keep Barkley, William, Dave and Pedro as squad players. Bin the rest over the next two years.

Was a great idea to drop Jorginho like you were so desperate for eh, went really well didn't it. 

It's all starting to feel a bit AVB again for me. 

It's all well and good having an ideology of wanting to play a certain way but when it clearly isn't working I'd like to see my manager acknowledging that and adapting. 

All well and good saying Kante isn't "technically" good enough to play at the base of the midfield but we've seen another goal conceded where the opposition has blown past the player in that position like they weren't even there. 

We're constantly playing ourselves into trouble, there's no urgency to move the ball forward, we're trying to play passing triangle near our 18 yard box and the opposition are pushing up and winning possession back in our own half. 

Everything is so narrow up front, everyone keeps cutting inside and looking congested. 

Certain players are getting continuously picked despite poor form. 

There doesn't seem to be a clear plan B right now, all the subs are like for like. 

There is an air of stubbornness about Sarri right now. We've not played well in the league for over a month now and I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned. 

3 hours ago, DaRick said:

Since I last posted in this thread, the side has regressed rather than kicking on as they looked like doing.

I do think that Sarri has been somewhat stubborn with his selections (playing Willian/Alonso too much), but I also think that with the fixture pile-up the side are struggling to play the high-pressing, high-possession style we saw up until October or thereabouts. 

As has been pointed out, Pedro/Willian are ageing and so can't press as effectively as they used to over 90 minutes.

For now I will reserve judgement. If we wind up playing lifeless football for months on end then either the personnel or the manager need to be examined. 

If he know's that, why keep persisting with them? Wolves played their own 18 year old wonder kid last night and reaped the benefits. Ours was nowhere to be seen 

Back the manager in January.

Christensen out and bring in a competent CB to actually compete with Luiz.

I can't see us spending big on a striker until summer so recall Bats, his link up play is far superior to what Morata currently offers and at least he offers a genuine threat in the box.

If Emerson ain't going to get a look in for whatever bizarre reason sign a left back that can actually displace Alonso.

Two signings isn't unreasonable for January, then we go big in summer for a striker/winger.

Definitely not an AVB situation. AVB had to work with already taught squad, slightly passed its prime for the most part of it. 

Most of our players now good for Sarri ball, that's why we didn't need so much time to integrate his ideas  - Pedro, Fabregas and Jorginho have experience in football like that. Hazard, Willian and Morata should be suitable as well, Giroud has played for Arsenal and he is really good in 1-2 situations. Rudiger is fast, Luiz enjoys this kind of football, only a bit concern about Azpilicueta and Alonso but they are fine at the end of the day. 

6 years the core of this team had to play for Di Matteo, Benitez, Mourinho and Conte. they can't keep the standards that high for 90 minutes. Even Guardiola admits that his City can't keep it 90 straight minutes of the highest levels. 

the problem is that our 20 minutes off are terrible. We got destroyed by United, Wolves, Arsenal, Spuds and Liverpool for that amount of time. Sarri needs to react faster, he is anticipating  the incoming collapse, the cameras always catch him, then the sh*t happense and he reacts with the subs. He must react before it happens. 

I'm still struggling to get my head around why he plays Kante in a position/role that isn't the one that had made him cited as one of the best midfielders in the world. I just haven't seen Jorginho do anything that is so incredible that you can understand doing something that compromises Kante's game.

I also can't help but feel that Sarri's style, tactics and selection is underestimating the physicality and pace of English league football. To get away without a physical presence in our game you pretty much need to be at City's level where you so seldom don't have the ball that winning it back is almost irrelevant. And anyway, if once in a blue moon you do lose it and concede, you can guarantee scoring 2 or 3 goals so again, it's no problem.

I want a return to the Vialli days, an exciting powerful pacey and direct team that were great fun to watch. This current obsession with perfect football made up of vertical triangles starting with the keeper and other mathematical stuff all sounds fascinating, but so far it's not very entertaining and nor is it proving massively effective.

13 minutes ago, Snedger said:

I'm still struggling to get my head around why he plays Kante in a position/role that isn't the one that had made him cited as one of the best midfielders in the world. I just haven't seen Jorginho do anything that is so incredible that you can understand doing something that compromises Kante's game.

I also can't help but feel that Sarri's style, tactics and selection is underestimating the physicality and pace of English league football. To get away without a physical presence in our game you pretty much need to be at City's level where you so seldom don't have the ball that winning it back is almost irrelevant. And anyway, if once in a blue moon you do lose it and concede, you can guarantee scoring 2 or 3 goals so again, it's no problem.

I want a return to the Vialli days, an exciting powerful pacey and direct team that were great fun to watch. This current obsession with perfect football made up of vertical triangles starting with the keeper and other mathematical stuff all sounds fascinating, but so far it's not very entertaining and nor is it proving massively effective.

Stick Kante wherever you want on the pitch, he ain't gonna flourish in a team that is holding 80% possession. The only way Kante goes back to being the best in the world is if we sit back, invite pressure, and play on the counter attack. I personally would rather not go back to that.

Agree with this:

 

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by enigma

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

It's all starting to feel a bit AVB again for me. 

It's all well and good having an ideology of wanting to play a certain way but when it clearly isn't working I'd like to see my manager acknowledging that and adapting. 

All well and good saying Kante isn't "technically" good enough to play at the base of the midfield but we've seen another goal conceded where the opposition has blown past the player in that position like they weren't even there. 

We're constantly playing ourselves into trouble, there's no urgency to move the ball forward, we're trying to play passing triangle near our 18 yard box and the opposition are pushing up and winning possession back in our own half. 

Everything is so narrow up front, everyone keeps cutting inside and looking congested. 

Certain players are getting continuously picked despite poor form. 

There doesn't seem to be a clear plan B right now, all the subs are like for like. 

There is an air of stubbornness about Sarri right now. We've not played well in the league for over a month now and I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned. 

 

Very well summed up mate, my feelings exactly. 

Did I REALLY see someone say something along the lines of "you supporters have been blinded by league position and results and can't see how sh*t we actually are"?

"League position and results"  The only determinants of success.  And we have been blinded by them whilst some FIFA playing JCL can see the truth and we have failed dismally.

You really couldn't make this sh*t up.  

(I just had a thought.  This isn't my old tranny friend from India, back again under a new name is it?  He used to spout such inane and ridiculous sh*te as that all the time and he was profoundly influenced by what SKY Sports pundits and Alan Shearer told him to believe)

This is why we can''t be a Liverpool or Spurs, or even Man City. We don't give managers time. The first sign of a poor patch and we run for the hills. The fans are the same. People say at the start of the season, we have to give him time, but we never do. We are just a merry go round club and things will never change until the attitude does. The club themselves haven't bought well enough to be an "elite" team, yet we want to eat caviar on a fish and chips budget. It's about time the club addressed their crap recruitment, because if they don't, we will forever be in this cycle. Arsenal are doing well with a new manager, but they also have a striker, actually two, who are scoring goals. One of which is currently the PL top scorer. When you're playing with 8/9/10 men every game, it will come as no surprise we aren't doing better. 

If Sarri leaves, who else? I would like Eddie Howe, but HAHA, not a chance with our impatience. May as well go back to recycling the same old, same old. The fact is, the league has gotten tougher and our board haven't bought to keep up, and Sarri is the one to get the blame because of it even though he's come in at the worst possible time when every one of our rivals is stronger than before. The board need a damn good shake to wake them up. We aren't close to elite right now. 

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by enigma

1 minute ago, enigma said:

If Sarri leaves, who else? I would like Eddie Howe, but HAHA, not a chance with our impatience. May as well go back to recycling the same old, same old. The fact is, the league has gotten tougher and our board haven't bought to keep up. They need a damn good shake to wake them up. We aren't close to elite right now. 

Seriously, I've seen this a few times from different people.  Exactly WHY would you like Eddie Howe?  What has he done to make you think he could be any good at a top European side, to which we aspire?

This is why we can''t be a Liverpool or Spurs, or even Man City. We don't give managers time. The first sign of a poor patch and we run for the hills. The fans are the same. People say at the start of the season, we have to give him time, but we never do. We are just a merry go round club and things will never change until the attitude does. The club themselves haven't bought well enough to be an "elite" team, yet we want to eat caviar on a fish and chips budget. It's about time the club addressed their crap recruitment, because if they don't, we will forever be in this cycle. Arsenal are doing well with a new manager, but they also have a striker, actually two, who are scoring goals. One of which is currently the PL top scorer. When you're playing with 8/9/10 men every game, it will come as no surprise we aren't doing better. 

Exactly this

8 minutes ago, enigma said:

This is why we can''t be a Liverpool or Spurs, or even Man City. We don't give managers time. The first sign of a poor patch and we run for the hills. The fans are the same. People say at the start of the season, we have to give him time, but we never do. We are just a merry go round club and things will never change until the attitude does. 

Why would we want to be a Liverpool or a Spurs? What have they done in the last decade for us to aspire to be like them? 

I'm not sure I have seen any posts on this thread/forum suggesting we should sack Sarri but people are rightly starting to ask questions about why we're not playing well and the responsibility for that starts and stops with the manager. 

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Seriously, I've seen this a few times from different people.  Exactly WHY would you like Eddie Howe?  What has he done to make you think he could be any good at a top European side, to which we aspire?

He's done about as much Sarri has in management, so what was the justifcation/logic behind Sarri's appointment? 

4 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Seriously, I've seen this a few times from different people.  Exactly WHY would you like Eddie Howe?  What has he done to make you think he could be any good at a top European side, to which we aspire?

What he has done since he took over at Bournemouth is pretty fantastic. They are now 7th in the league table. Many coaches would have been given a bigger job if they were in the same position in another country. 

27 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Stick Kante wherever you want on the pitch, he ain't gonna flourish in a team that is holding 80% possession. The only way Kante goes back to being the best in the world is if we sit back, invite pressure, and play on the counter attack. I personally would rather not go back to that.

That's an interesting point. The question I would then ask is, would be be better off cashing in on Kante while he's still regarded as the best player in his (natural) position in the world and reinvest in a player that is better suited to where and how Kante is being asked to play now? I'm not criticising Kante in any way, just noting how I feel he's not producing the massive performances we've been used to from him. And in truth, he's bloody useless going forward. He's hardly renowned for his ability to split a defence with a throughball or whacking a 25 yarder into the top corner.

 

I also agree with you that inviting pressure and trying to hit on the counter isn't particularly comfortable to watch and I agree that I'd rather not see that either, but so far I've not enjoyed an awful lot of what I've watched this season so far. It's not even that we're doing badly, because we aren't, but to my eyes we've hardly been a joy to watch this season so far. Perhaps that is just down to Sarri being well short of the players he needs for it to work as planned.

26 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

"League position and results"  The only determinants of success.  And we have been blinded by them whilst some FIFA playing JCL can see the truth and we have failed dismally.

Trajectory is important though. You can be floating while taking in water and slowly sinking.

Fifth and looking worse and worse is a lot more critical than fifth and getting better and better(Like Arsenal for example)

22 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Seriously, I've seen this a few times from different people.  Exactly WHY would you like Eddie Howe?  What has he done to make you think he could be any good at a top European side, to which we aspire?

I think he's arguably the most impressive manager in the league - the way he has gradually built up that Bournemouth side is truly phenomenal. They play fairly good football without being naive. They have a British spine. They manage to improve year-on-year without spending stupid sums of money (Jordon Ibe aside...) They have also comprehensively beaten us twice at Stamford Bridge in that time. 

If there was ever going to be a true successor to Ferguson, Howe is probably the closest thing to it at the moment. The fact that Bournemouth are in their fourth successive top-flight season (and currently 6th) without anyone as much as batting an eyelid is true testament to his achievement. They're not just plucky upstarts, he has made them belong. 

24 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

He's done about as much Sarri has in management, so what was the justifcation/logic behind Sarri's appointment? 

And, if you read a lot of posts in here, where people have swung from happiness to whingeing in the blink of an eye and a poor performance against the Spuds, there was no justification/logic.  That's the point.  Howe has won as much as Sarri (maybe) and, in here at least, would get four months before the same people were whining about not winning 5-0 every match and Morata tripping over his new haircut.

No f**king patience at all, most of the sods.

15 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Trajectory is important though. You can be floating while taking in water and slowly sinking.

Fifth and looking worse and worse is a lot more critical than fifth and getting better and better(Like Arsenal for example)

And so may be, but that wasn't what the original idiot was saying.

And that isn't the current situation here.

As I said in another post, no f**king patience in this forum.

11 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And so may be, but that wasn't what the original idiot was saying.

And that isn't the current situation here.

As I said in another post, no f**king patience in this forum.

I beg to differ. We've have been waiting 6 seasons, and still waiting, to see why we paid over £30m for Willian. 

8 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And so may be, but that wasn't what the original idiot was saying.

And that isn't the current situation here.

As I said in another post, no f**king patience in this forum.

For the record. I support Sarri and want him to succeed.

But as many already have said. For this project to work he’ll need to be backed properly by the club. It’s an incredibly challenging way of playing football, especially in this tough, physical and fast league and I’ve always maintained the belief that you’ll need to perfect squad to succeed with this kind of football in the PL.

The club needs to decide if they want to spend 3-400 million on creating the squad needed for this to work.
If they aren’t prepared to do that then this project will have to be ended before long.