1 minute ago, DukesOfHazard said:

This sums it up for me. We need to accept there is going to be losses during the transition and not throw the toys out of the pram at one loss even if it was disappointing.

What sarri has done so far is quite remarkable and as soon as the pressing is sorted and the passing sped up I think we could be in for some spectacular football like he produced at Napoli.

I think we have been spoilt down the years, by new managers coming in and winning the league in their first season, but that model isn't sustainable, especially if the club isn't outspending the opposition every summer. 

2 hours ago, atomis said:

Why is it idolizing? He is a good manager......I dont think there can be much doubt there.

Spurs are one of the darling Clubs......they can do no wrong and have the likes of kane and ali there........the shining lights of whole Eng.

Idolizing from some fans in that they always talk about how great he is, and then are silent when spurs capitulate. That's why.  Sure he's a good manager, but I've seen Chelsea fans claiming that they'd have him at Chelsea over some of our recent managers: that is idolizing when our managers have won things and he's won absolutely bugger all.

8 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

There's different rules for certain managers. Have a read of this tripe on Sky Sports: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11563138/how-mauricio-pochettino-got-the-better-of-maurizio-sarri-at-wembley

Pochettino has completely changed the whole club, which is worth far more than winning a trophy," Law said, a view Oliver Holt agreed with.

I think tactical inflexibility cost us on Saturday. I would hazard a guess that over 90% of members on here could have named the side that was chosen and how we would set up before the match. Pochettino had a full week to device a game plan and a further four days to implement it with his squad, he saw our weaknesses and exploited it to good effect. Whilst not wanting Sarri to abandon his principles, it would be good to see the occasional surprise tweak to formation and tactics,otherwise we will see other top coaches being well prepared to play us in the future.

 

I see the moaners are back Inn full effect.

City lost quite a few players like this in Pep's first season, and they had a better team. It takes time to adjust to a new style, and requires recruitment to replace those who couldn't adjust. Sarri needs to be backed, and we need to accept we will lose more games like this, it's part of the process. It would be interesting to see how he reacts this weekend, my feeling i changes are coming.

Sarri didn't get a full pre-season, and is trying to introduce a completely new style of football. And we've only lost one game in the first 13. Jesus christ, if we'd have been offered this kind of start back in July, every damn one of us would have bitten their hand off for it.

We know the kind of style he's building from his time at Napoli, and we know the quality of players at Chelsea is higher than he had back then. Give the man some time for goodness sake. He said right from the start that the defensive part of his tactics were the bit that took by far the longest to teach.

16 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

City lost quite a few players like this in Pep's first season, and they had a better team. It takes time to adjust to a new style, and requires recruitment to replace those who couldn't adjust. Sarri needs to be backed, and we need to accept we will lose more games like this, it's part of the process. It would be interesting to see how he reacts this weekend, my feeling i changes are coming.

Yes, but Pep didnt bring in two players and make them central to his entire way of playing {Jorg & Kova} and then have to ditch them because they are such huge weaknesses. Teams will always be able to drive a fleet of double decker busses thru our midfield so long as they are there. Kante and even Drinkwater would do a better job for now. 

Having seen napoli under sarri a fair few times, I find it hard to criticise Sarri's tactics against spurs, when the team clearly did not play the way he instructed. So many players just didn't turn up yesterday, jorginho and Luiz will obviously attract the most criticism, but rudiger looked like an absolute donkey and the work rate, and pressing from the entire team, especially the front 3, was disgraceful. 
We are not a team that is setup to absorb pressure anymore, we need to play on the front foot. The biggest problem for me at the moment, is the disjointed pressing, which leaves gaps all over the place. City have some great footballers, but they absolutely smoother teams with their pressing. 
I'm a pretty patient fan, I don't want sarri to change what he is doing, surely the whole reason we got sarri in was to change the footballing philosophy over a couple of years? I think some fans like the idea of giving the manager time, but in reality, it's the complete opposite. 
I'm just going to give sarri time to coach the players, and if this time next year, after he has had 3 windows and 18 months to get a team that play the way he wants, we are still having the same problems, then I will be asking questions about whether his tactics and philosophy are best for the club.
In peps first season, city lost 3-1 at home to us, 4-2 away at Leicester, and 4-0 away at Everton, and that was with a stronger group than we have now. 
Klopp lost 7 games in his first season to teams outside the top 6.
pochetino had already lost 5 games by this time in his 1st season, and his away record against the rest of the top 6 was awful in his 1st 2 years.
All 3 of our main competitors have now had a manager and a system in place for numerous seasons, we can no longer just bring quality to fix problems, so we have to do what spurs and Liverpool did, and that is give the manager time, and strengthen as best we can across a few windows. 
 

Absolutely spot on exactly what I have been saying he's been with us 5 months and people are expecting miracles

24 minutes ago, Dixon said:

Yes, but Pep didnt bring in two players and make them central to his entire way of playing {Jorg & Kova} and then have to ditch them because they are such huge weaknesses.

It's almost like Guardiola didn't bring in his favorite keeper, kicking out Joe Hart in the process, only for his personal favorite to play as one of the worst goal keepers ever to grace the Premiership.

11 minutes ago, opinionsarelike said:

It's almost like Guardiola didn't bring in his favorite keeper, kicking out Joe Hart in the process, only for his personal favorite to play as one of the worst goal keepers ever to grace the Premiership.

How can you begin to compare a keeper to two outfeld players who are central to how the team is set up and plays? 

2 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

I see the moaners are back Inn full effect.

We just got battered by Spurs.

Of course fans are moaning, why wouldn’t they? 

Honeymoon period is over time to see if the hype was just that.

14 minutes ago, Dixon said:

How can you begin to compare a keeper to two outfeld players who are central to how the team is set up and plays? 

Guardiola went head over heels to make Claudio Bravo his goalkeeper, because Joe Hart couldn't play his style. If you dont think that's a change that is central to how Guardiola wanted to play, then there's no point in further discussing this.

The whole team were well below par.I never saw a performance like that coming and neither did Sarri.We move on.

17 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

We just got battered by Spurs.

Of course fans are moaning, why wouldn’t they? 

It’s so silly.
Anything but unreserved praise seems to be seen as moaning by some.
Same thing happened during the transfer window. Dare to say the strikers we have at the club are nowhere near good enough? Moaner!
Dare to say David Luiz won’t work in a back 4? Moaner!

Now it’s the same when people dare to bring up actual issues we have. We could easily have lost by 6 goals yesterday, to Tottenham(!) of all teams. Clearly there are some major issues to address.

12 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

You are definitely saying we shouldn't do that now.

I argumented for my opinion, so please discuss my argument as well if you're going to say what I said and didn't say.

12 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

We definitely should have done it then, because it won us the title. I don't think you can second guess that.

We won the title, you are right. But Mourinho could never start playing proactive football again after that, which was kind of the point I was trying to make.

12 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

He doesn't need to "abandon his principles".

Sarris principles, in no particular order, are: a) high line and press, b) fast, one touch triangular passing vertically and c) collective movement off the ball.

a) We aren't lowering our line anytime soon, and we won't stop pressing.

b) Replacing Jorginho with Kanté means that we can't penetrate the opposition's lines as precise and with regularity. It will also hinder our ability to create those passing triangles in the middle of the field.

c) This will just require more practice, in the style Sarri wants us to play, ie. not pragmatically change how we are to play every other game.

12 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

But, there are weaknesses in the side that were brutally exposed against Spurs.

I do agree here, we got absolutely smashed. Pressing extensively will always have an element of risk to it. The best pressing side in the world today, Manchester City, lose big sometimes. But at the end of the day, they are probably the best Premier League side ever and will most likely have back to back seasons with 100 points or above in the league.

12 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

If there is one thing the last 15 years have taught me about this club...when it comes down to the manager (him) or the players (them), the answer is nearly always "them". 

Totally agree, but if we are to make a process and effort of trying to change the philosophy of the club, then we need to do it properly. I truly do believe that Sarri needs to stick to his guns 100% if he wants this to work.

Time will show, I guess.

 

I like Sarri a lot and believe he has a modern outlook on the sport which requires a different playing style and skill set as opposed to only ten-fifteen years ago. But I know that I personally wouldn't be able to trust a boss if he were to change philosophy several times in a year/season/whatever. Why should footballers be different?

That's my whole point. If you want Sarri out, then fine, I don't care. But for as long as Sarri is here, he should be allowed to teach what he knows. If not, then get in another manager.

33 minutes ago, opinionsarelike said:

Guardiola went head over heels to make Claudio Bravo his goalkeeper, because Joe Hart couldn't play his style. If you dont think that's a change that is central to how Guardiola wanted to play, then there's no point in further discussing this.

Having a top keeper is number 1 and Hartt was in decline. Having one who can use his feet is added bonus, that is all! The attacking flair and goal power is what teams cant cope with and is why City are the best!  Having a midfield that is hopeless in defence and attack is massively more significant than a keeper using his feet.

With regards to some of solutions being offered to the problems we have, I don't see any other option than to back the manager by letting him play how he wants and knows, and giving him more players that fit his system in the transfer windows. 

From back to front. 

Luiz out christiensen in. Has christiensen shown enough this calender year to get back into the team? Can we afford for christiensen to carry in making mistakes, in the hope he plays himself back into form? Will we miss Luiz's distribution? 

Full backs. Neither zappacosta or Emerson have shown enough to play ahead of alonso or Azpiliucueta. They will no doubt get a start or 2 over the busy December period, as will christiensen, and they need to play a hell of a lot better than they have so far this season.

Change to a back 3? We do have the personnel to still play 3 at the back, however it has a massive knock on effect for the way we can play. 343, means jorginho, Barkley, and RLC have no real place in the side, as none of them can play in a midfield 2. 352 leaves us incredibly narrow, and it also puts Willian and Pedro out of position. It also means a lot of the work that sarri has been trying implement is lost, the tactical repetition work when it comes to pressing, passing sequences, defensive positioning, attacking movement, is all very different with a 3 man defence.

Midfield.

Kante swapping with jorginho. Kante is being critised for his ability on the ball, jorginho gets more of the ball than any other player, would it make sense to then give kante even more of the ball by playing him as the anchor? Wouldn't teams have more success pressing and man marking kante? I've seen a few posters saying to change to 4231, but then we lose a player in our press, making easier for teams to play out against us. Then there is even 1 or 2 saying to drop kante, which is just not going to happen, as he is the only defensive minded midfielder we have, and the highest paid player at the club will start every game. 

Kovacic vs Barkley vs RLC. The former 2 have had chances, sometimes they have played well, sometimes not. I don't any of them have done enough to nail done a starting spot, and neither does sarri by the looks of it, since it is a position that has been rotated. 

The front 3 is in the same boat, sarri has tried multiple combinations but apart from hazard, none of the others are top quality, which we all knew before a ball was kicked this season, I'm not sure what more sarri can do with them, other than try and coach them to perform better, which is what he has been trying to do with the entire squad since the moment he walked in.

1 hour ago, Hemel Blue said:

The whole team were well below par.I never saw a performance like that coming and neither did Sarri.We move on.

He kind of did though which makes the defeat not so bad. This defeat had been coming for a while in terms of the amount of chances we are giving the opposition this season. He had said several time he is not happy how we are defending and we need to improve, he said that he's happy we are winning despite not a good tactical organisation - link here https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-lucky-to-keep-winning-without-tactical-organisation-admits-maurizio-sarri-a3980576.html

I would have been more worried if he had been saying how good we look and we can challenge City etc, but he knows where we need to improve which is reassuring.

I know this sounds absolutely mental, but next big game why don’t we drop Jorginho? 

Everyone will be targeting him from now to on so I imagine dropping him would completely disrupt their game plan and the match may even turn out better for us. Kante can do a job there, we have Barkley, Kovacic, fabregas etc to take up the rest of midfield.

Its worrying how teams are beginning to see Jorginho as the target and when he is being marked out of the game we play rubbish. 

39 minutes ago, big blue said:

With regards to some of solutions being offered to the problems we have, I don't see any other option than to back the manager by letting him play how he wants and knows, and giving him more players that fit his system in the transfer windows. 

From back to front. 

Luiz out christiensen in. Has christiensen shown enough this calender year to get back into the team? Can we afford for christiensen to carry in making mistakes, in the hope he plays himself back into form? Will we miss Luiz's distribution? 

Full backs. Neither zappacosta or Emerson have shown enough to play ahead of alonso or Azpiliucueta. They will no doubt get a start or 2 over the busy December period, as will christiensen, and they need to play a hell of a lot better than they have so far this season.

Change to a back 3? We do have the personnel to still play 3 at the back, however it has a massive knock on effect for the way we can play. 343, means jorginho, Barkley, and RLC have no real place in the side, as none of them can play in a midfield 2. 352 leaves us incredibly narrow, and it also puts Willian and Pedro out of position. It also means a lot of the work that sarri has been trying implement is lost, the tactical repetition work when it comes to pressing, passing sequences, defensive positioning, attacking movement, is all very different with a 3 man defence.

Midfield.

Kante swapping with jorginho. Kante is being critised for his ability on the ball, jorginho gets more of the ball than any other player, would it make sense to then give kante even more of the ball by playing him as the anchor? Wouldn't teams have more success pressing and man marking kante? I've seen a few posters saying to change to 4231, but then we lose a player in our press, making easier for teams to play out against us. Then there is even 1 or 2 saying to drop kante, which is just not going to happen, as he is the only defensive minded midfielder we have, and the highest paid player at the club will start every game. 

Kovacic vs Barkley vs RLC. The former 2 have had chances, sometimes they have played well, sometimes not. I don't any of them have done enough to nail done a starting spot, and neither does sarri by the looks of it, since it is a position that has been rotated. 

The front 3 is in the same boat, sarri has tried multiple combinations but apart from hazard, none of the others are top quality, which we all knew before a ball was kicked this season, I'm not sure what more sarri can do with them, other than try and coach them to perform better, which is what he has been trying to do with the entire squad since the moment he walked in.

Good post and I agree with a lot of it. However, your making it look like Sarri has an more difficult job on his hands than Theresa May has with pleasing everyone with her Brexit deal. Football is a pretty simple game and we are not and have not been doing some of the most basic things required. If players are not capable of doing the basics then get rid of them asp! We're now looking for short term fixes tho,but when we look at our team and City's then we face a huge rebuilding plan no matter who the managed is next season. IMHO, from out current lot I'd only mark down Kepa, Rudigar, Kante (back where he belongs) and Hazard, as being good enough to take us forward to catch City over the next couple of years. A few others - Willian, Dave, Alonso, Barkley - as squad players, but thats about it..

On 25/11/2018 at 00:22, Ballack & Blu said:

The First thing he should do is ditch and desist with playing Kante in a right attacking midfield, he has to find a way of utilising him better, i'd say in front of a back three, something like a 3 1 3 3

Kante is still adapting to the new position, so  it will take time. If Sarri goes back to using Kante as before we lose any impetus we would have gained from learning a new system. 

Very odd to be doubting Sarri when we knew it would take time. If you want to be impatient, then we may as well be a short term club with no long term plans. It's not like Pochettino went to Spurs and made them automatically a fantastic side. The same with Klopp's Liverpool, and same with Pep's city. On top of that, every one of those clubs have scouted and invested well. I blame the club for not having a vision for where we want to go and sticking to it through rough or smooth. If we wanted Pep, then Roman should have set the vision in place and hired him. Instead we have gone from different style to different style, switching managers and buying mediocre players. 

This is the perfect example of capitalising while you're ahead: 

Why aren't we involved in these conversations? 

Just now, Dixon said:

Good post and I agree with a lot of it. However, your making it look like Sarri has an more difficult job on his hands than Theresa May has with pleasing everyone with her Brexit deal. Football is a pretty simple game and we are not and have not been doing some of the most basic things required. If players are not capable of doing the basics then get rid of them asp! We're now looking for short term fixes tho,but when we look at our team and City's then we face a huge rebuilding plan no matter who the managed is next season. IMHO, from out current lot I'd only mark down Kepa, Rudigar, Kante (back where he belongs) and Hazard, as being good enough to take us forward to catch City over the next couple of years. A few others - Willian, Dave, Alonso, Barkley - as squad players, but thats about it..

I think does have a difficult job, (maybe Theresa May has it a touch harder though).

I don't think we are a club that can make that big of a change in personnel in a window or 2. Sarri managed to turn some fairly average players into some of the most coveted in Europe, so let's see what we are looking like towards the end of the season, at the moment I agree we look like we need 4/5 top players to even think about competing for the title.

Could he slightly invert the midfield giving more freedom to the fullbacks at the same time as maximising Kante, Jorginho & Barclay? So Kante & Jorginho left & right deeper lying & Barclay slightly advanced centrally. This still gives us the basis of Sarri’s style but utililises the players we have.