13 minutes ago, just said:

Barkley has been out-standing in pre-season.

So was Yossi Benayoun 8 years ago then we loaned him to Arsenal. If Barkley could carry on that form into the season I'll be impressed but I rarely judge pre season performances. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

So was Yossi Benayoun 8 years ago then we loaned him to Arsenal. If Barkley could carry on that form into the season I'll be impressed but I rarely judge pre season performances. 

He has talent above Kovacic. For sure. Bigger, stronger, better in the air, more creative, better finisher. Last season's stats proved it.

Yep, a big season for Barkley. Pre-season has been A1.

I think Frank likes him.

24 minutes ago, just said:

Barkley has been out-standing in pre-season.

no doubt. but so has been Kova in his new role. 

2 hours ago, just said:

He has talent above Kovacic. For sure. Bigger, stronger, better in the air, more creative, better finisher. Last season's stats proved it.

Yep, a big season for Barkley. Pre-season has been A1.

I think Frank likes him.

Barkley has talent above Kovacic? You are having a laugh, Barkley's technique is not even close to Kovacic's, the only thing that Barkley has over Kova is physicality and shooting.

Barkley is being so over hyped its ridiculous

11 hours ago, Vagabond said:

Wishful thinking. People were saying that last season as well, yet Kovacic and Barkley were playing while RLC kept warming the bench for most of the season, same as people were moaning about CHO while Willian and Pedro were playing. I seriously doubt Kova would've signed without some kind of assurances on game time, he didn't leave the RM bench to be in the same position at CFC. Looking at our midfield performances right now even Kante will have to share some game time, and Ruben definitely isn't getting past Ross if he can keep performing the way he did in pre season.

Since those are nice problems to have for a team I don't understand why you are so cynical though.

I'm just saying that as long as Jorgy and Kante are fit, Kovacic belongs to the bench. And if he ever was to play more offensive, Barkley and RLC take that spot from him.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I'm just saying that as long as Jorgy and Kante are fit, Kovacic belongs to the bench. And if he ever was to play more offensive, Barkley and RLC take that spot from him.

I'm not so sure. I can see Kovacic and Jorginho sharing that position next to Kante, and I can see Kovacic getting the majority of the games. What exactly would Jorginho offer in that position outside of short passes? Like I said in my post the other day, Kovacic has the dribbling, close control and bursts out of midfield that would be more of a weapon than Jorginho's short passes. Jorginho also has a major weakness, he can be marked out of the game by the opposition just by staying tight to him. If they try that against Kovacic, then Kovacic could just dribble his way out of that situation.

Saying that, I was really disappointed by Kovacic last season though. He would go through long periods where you would forget he was even on the field until he was subbed. If he has that problem again this season, then I doubt he will get the nod over Jorginho that often. Hopefully this new role means we see a different Kovacic.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I'm not so sure. I can see Kovacic and Jorginho sharing that position next to Kante, and I can see Kovacic getting the majority of the games. What exactly would Jorginho offer in that position outside of short passes? Like I said in my post the other day, Kovacic has the dribbling, close control and bursts out of midfield that would be more of a weapon than Jorginho's short passes. Jorginho also has a major weakness, he can be marked out of the game by the opposition just by staying tight to him. If they try that against Kovacic, then Kovacic could just dribble his way out of that situation.

Saying that, I was really disappointed by Kovacic last season though. He would go through long periods where you would forget he was even on the field until he was subbed. If he has that problem again this season, then I doubt he will get the nod over Jorginho that often. Hopefully this new role means we see a different Kovacic.

Jorginho is just a much more reliable player. Sarri made the team too much dependent on Jorginho but it's not as easy to take him out of the game, Kovacic didn't have the impact as Jorginho.
Even in pre-season his pressing created the goal of Tammy in the win against Barcelona, he just reads the game so well. Our first lineup in the hardest games should be Jorghy,Kante and then either Barkley or RLC. 

7 hours ago, Lucashm said:

Barkley has talent above Kovacic? You are having a laugh, Barkley's technique is not even close to Kovacic's, the only thing that Barkley has over Kova is physicality and shooting.

Barkley is being so over hyped its ridiculous

Heading? ..... Oh, and he can actually score a goal.

1 hour ago, just said:

Heading? ..... Oh, and he can actually score a goal.

Heading would fall under the physicality element imo

10 hours ago, Lucashm said:

Barkley has talent above Kovacic? You are having a laugh, Barkley's technique is not even close to Kovacic's, the only thing that Barkley has over Kova is physicality and shooting.

Barkley is being so over hyped its ridiculous

Technique with zero end product is about as much use  as a chocolate teapot.  There are street footballers and circus performers with amazing ball skills, but they'd never make it as a top pro footballer. Barkley has an eye for goal and can create goals with a pass. Those two attributes alone are vastly more important towards a  team winning  a game than hundereds of Kova's 5 yard sideways passes and five yard dribbles around the middle of the pitch.                                                                                                            Kova's extremely lucky be given a fresh start with a new manager, so i hope he grabs it with both hands.   

Edited August 3, 20196 yr by Dixons

24 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Technique with zero end product is about as much use  as a chocolate teapot.  There are street footballers and circus performers with amazing ball skills, but they'd never make it as a top pro footballer. Barkley has an eye for goal and can create goals with a pass. Those two attributes alone are vastly more important towards a  team winning  a game than hundereds of Kova's 5 yard sideways passes and five yard dribbles around the middle of the pitch.                                                                                                            Kova's extremely lucky be given a fresh start with a new manager, so i hope he grabs it with both hands.   

I don't think would have put it in such a damning way but these are pretty much my own thoughts in Kovacic. Even with his consistently mediocre performances he was actually not far off Barkley and Jorginho as all three were very poor overall. 

He could still develop into a very good player but needs to step it up a few notches and take responsibility, something which Lampard thankfully seems to be impressing on all the players. 

Edited August 3, 20196 yr by GhostOfDembaBa

32 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Technique with zero end product is about as much use  as a chocolate teapot.  There are street footballers and circus performers with amazing ball skills, but they'd never make it as a top pro footballer. Barkley has an eye for goal and can create goals with a pass. Those two attributes alone are vastly more important towards a  team winning  a game than hundereds of Kova's 5 yard sideways passes and five yard dribbles around the middle of the pitch.                                                                                                            Kova's extremely lucky be given a fresh start with a new manager, so i hope he grabs it with both hands.   

Weird how one of those players has played for Inter Milan, Real Madrid and Chelsea by the age of 24 while the other one struggled to get any suitors to leave Everton until he had 6 months left on his deal. Would we have picked him up if he wasn't English? I doubt it. 

What do football scouts that are paid millions know though, just come on here and read fans comments. Would make their job a lot easier.

As far as I'm concerned both have s lot of improving to do as so far they've been very underwhelming but...

Barkley was an Everton lad who the club wouldn't have wanted to let go easily, and who probably didn't have any interest in leaving till things panned out the way they did. 

He was also an injury prone player and the fee for English players is already stupidly expensive. All the top 6 were interested in him at some point. 

Kovacic has also been let go by two of those clubs without much of a fight to keep him and sometimes the talent that's on show in training and lower levels doesn't translate to the top as a starter.

This seems to be the case with Kovacic to this point. Nice little flashes of technique and dribbling once every few games, a nice turn here and there. He really needs to make telling contributions and impose himself on games.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Weird how one of those players has played for Inter Milan, Real Madrid and Chelsea by the age of 24 while the other one struggled to get any suitors to leave Everton until he had 6 months left on his deal. Would we have picked him up if he wasn't English? I doubt it. 

What do football scouts that are paid millions know though, just come on here and read fans comments. Would make their job a lot easier.

He was a bench warmer for RM and Inter are as bang average as Everton.                                                                                                                                                                  And these expert scouts recommended such talents as Bakayoko, Bats, Zappacosta, Baba, Cuadrado, Drinkwater and other wastes of money. 

Edited August 3, 20196 yr by Dixons

18 minutes ago, Dixons said:

He was a bench warmer for RM and Inter are as bang average as Everton.                                                                                                                                                                  And these expert scouts recommended such talents as Bakayoko, Bats, Zappacosta, Baba, Cuadrado, Drinkwater and other wastes of money. 

73 appearances for Real Madrid for a 20-23 year old, must have been doing something right. He was competing against prime Modric and Kroos for game time.

Inter as bang average as Everton? We have a laugh now or something.

Mental that you aren't scouting for top level European teams with your fount of knowledge.

45 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

73 appearances for Real Madrid for a 20-23 year old, must have been doing something right. He was competing against prime Modric and Kroos for game time.

Inter as bang average as Everton? We have a laugh now or something.

Mental that you aren't scouting for top level European teams with your fount of knowledge.

Inter wouldn't be top 6 in England.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I don't claim to be anything other than an average watcher of footbball. But, i am sure that if i'd had a good enough look at players  like Bakayoko and Bats, i would have spotted they lack some of the most basic skills to be a Chelsea player. 

Edited August 3, 20196 yr by Dixons

It would be nice if we could praise a player without putting down another one of our own.

Both were underwhelming last season, both have had great preseasons, but the comparisons are pretty pointless now, since they dont look like being in direct competition this season. 

Hopefully kovacic and barkley fulfill the potential they had in their early careers, both were very highly rated teenagers, that have struggled to produce, hopefully under lampard that can change.

Edited August 3, 20196 yr by big blue

5 hours ago, GhostOfDembaBa said:

As far as I'm concerned both have s lot of improving to do as so far they've been very underwhelming but...

Barkley was an Everton lad who the club wouldn't have wanted to let go easily, and who probably didn't have any interest in leaving till things panned out the way they did. 

He was also an injury prone player and the fee for English players is already stupidly expensive. All the top 6 were interested in him at some point. 

Kovacic has also been let go by two of those clubs without much of a fight to keep him and sometimes the talent that's on show in training and lower levels doesn't translate to the top as a starter.

This seems to be the case with Kovacic to this point. Nice little flashes of technique and dribbling once every few games, a nice turn here and there. He really needs to make telling contributions and impose himself on games.

Spot on.

IMO the only reason we brought Kovacic is the transfer ban. Apart from 15 minutes against Arsenal in the final, he was pants for the rest of the season.

Either way, it's a big season for both of them. Hope they can both come good.

Kovacic is better than Jorginho, id play Kovacic and Kante VS Utd.

I expect both Kovacic and Jorginho to start against ManU. Kantes 15 minutes against mucchen is not enough. Kovacic needs to show his best game week in week out.he and Jorginho and barkely/mount are a good midfield trio and are developing a partnership. They had an off night in h1 against munchen but I’m ok with that. He is a big game player that moves  the ball from midfield to attack and keeps possession really well. 

I believe in him, let's not forget how difficult it is to impress in debut season in Premier League. 

He could not ask for a better midfielder to teach him and help him. He could be Franky's project!

3 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Kovacic is better than Jorginho, id play Kovacic and Kante VS Utd.

I think he looks better suited to that double pivot in the 4-2-3-1 than Jorginho and I think you’re right, I think he’ll partner Kante.

 

17 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Kovacic is better than Jorginho, id play Kovacic and Kante VS Utd.

Based on some pre-season games. Don't write off Jorginho he is far more reliable than Kovacic.

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Based on some pre-season games. Don't write off Jorginho he is far more reliable than Kovacic.

No it's not its based on the whole of last season too. The only thing Jorginho has over Kovacic is passing, everything else Kovacic is better thats why i prefer him.

Or we could always have tactical flexibility. Having Jorginho, Barkley, Kovacic, RLC, Mount and Kante allows us to have tactical freedom to switch formations to suit opponents. Italian teams would cream their pants to have our current midfield roster.