At this point, I despise it. It's sucking the life out of the game, or maybe I should be saying the officials in charge of it are the ones doing that. It's not just against us either, even though we are one of the teams suffering the most because of it. I remember some people were saying it would make things better because it would cancel out the refs clear and obvious errors......well it doesn't actually do that, it just adds to it. 

In the past, I would get mad at refs missing things or getting a wrong decision against us, but at least then they always had the excuse that they didn't see it properly. But now, they don't have that excuse, and that just makes me even angrier and question what the hell is going on. How is it possibly to be getting these decisions so wrong? They have replays, they see what we see on the tv, but they can look at it as many times as they like. How is it still possible for them to be getting so many decisions wrong? They cannot be this stupid. Also, why are the pundits and media not saying this? All they say is "oh, it's the consistency that's wrong". Go into a bit more detail, say what the the rest of country is saying.

After tonights game, I honestly think I have come as close as I have ever been to giving up on football. I couldn't watch anymore of the match after seeing the player that should have been sent off scoring against us. It was bad enough seeing that kind of sh*t happen without VAR, but with VAR, it made it ten times worse. 

During the winter break, I was actually enjoying the break from football and wasn't really looking forward to it returning. For a while, football has been becoming less and less entertaining to watch, and they have added something that has made it even less entertaining. It's honestly just making me frustrated and angry more than anything else these days.

3 hours ago, Zeta said:

It is really ruining my enjoyment of football. I can't remember the last time I actually celebrated a goal, because you then have to wait and see if there is some tiny push or half a toe offside for them to rule it out and justify their own positions.

Part of why am not sure how many more Chelsea games I may watch this season. I have not been enjoying them for some time.

I was the opposite. I was very excited to have football return after a two-week break.

On VAR, the common theme across the whole competition is it's "ruining football", and it's a position I wholeheartedly agree with.

We were denied a rightful goal last night and Maguire should have been sent off for his kick on Batshauyi. The second disallowed goal from Giroud was iffy, but for all intents and purposes I think it was just offside.

11 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Part of why am not sure how many more Chelsea games I may watch this season. I have not been enjoying them for some time.

Thats me done with football this season, I`ll see what happens to VAR in the summer and may watch again next season but if it stays the same then I wont bother.

Worth reading Johnathan Wilson in the Guardian on last night's VAR shambles:

Quote

This was a game whose outcome felt fanciful in the extreme: dramatically speaking, it simply did not convince. It began with Chelsea, Batshuayi in particular, missing chances, which is reasonable enough. The Belgian has had 15 shots this season and scored with one of them, the distillation of a wider problem with finishing at Chelsea; in terms of goals scored, only Watford are underperforming their xG by a wider margin.

There then followed a trio of refereeing/VAR decisions that seemed almost designed to disprove the assumption that it would be a cold, all-seeing eye that dealt only in facts, weighing players in the balance and passing godlike justice. As it turns out, all gods are essentially human in conception and VAR is no different: this deity has a cruel and capricious sense of humour.

Even before any of VAR’s interventions, there was a non-intervention as Willian was booked for diving on the edge of the box. It seemed he had been fouled but because the incident took place a fraction outside the box, VAR was powerless to intervene. Six inches closer to goal and the booking would have been overturned and a penalty awarded. As it was, VAR simply took water, and washed its hands before the multitude and said: “I am innocent of the card to this just person, see you to it.”

Two goals then disallowed, one for a tight but understandable offside, the other for a push by César Azpilicueta that itself seemed the domino effect of a push by Fred – do pushes in the box, like handballs, now matter to a differing degree according to whether they are perpetrated by an attacking or defending player? – weren’t even the end of it. That Harry Maguire should have scored the decisive second having not been sent off for thrusting his boot into the groin of Batshuayi about three feet in front of Lampard – this was within VAR’s jurisdiction, it just chose on this occasion to spare the England defender, reasoning perhaps that by that stage there were several thousand people in the ground who would willingly have clouted the profligate forward amidships – was a devastating coup de grace.

 

Everyone hates it, even the people who wanted technology brought in are now realising its not as straight forward as a binary goal line decision, or offside call, which both use beautiful lines to show us its either over the line or behind the line, simple, and easy to be consistent with.

But when you start asking a referee in an office to police the grey areas, from that moment the game actually leaves the whole stadium, and is now being played out in this backwater office. Why does this have to happen this way,when you can have the on-pitch ref decide for himself from the side of the pitch, using the futuristic technology known as a monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes we got done over last night yet I recall recently where we got lucky with some VAR decisions...might have been Burnley away.

I think playing Bats does not make sense, the sooner he is sent out on loan or waved goodbye the better, Frank's reputation can only fall further by having him as our second striker when we have Giroud.

I've now reviewed a few papers and forums and the opinion is Maguire should have walked for the challenge on Bats.

The ref made another error with Martial's challenge on Christensen by jumping with outstretched arms. Due to the injury and blood why was that not taken to VAR?

 The fact that Azpi was pushed in the build up to Zouma's goal should have allowed this, Clattenburg says a similar event at Norwich should have meant this goal stood.

Watching Willian live last night it looked a penalty to me though now realize he was outside the box, yet a yellow ?

I caught JT speaking after the match and he thought we should have defended their first goal better yet for the second said Rudiger took up the correct position as Maguire was being shielded by a Utd player and when Maguire did move the ball was a perfect delivery for him and not much you can do about that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by strider6004

Just now, coco said:

Everyone hates it, even the people who wanted technology brought in are now realising its not as straight forward as a binary goal line decision, or offside call, which both use beautiful lines to show us its either over the line or behind the line, simple, and easy to be consistent with.

But when you start asking a referee in an office to police the grey areas, from that moment the game actually leaves the whole stadium, and is now being played out in this backwater office. Why does this have to happen this way,when you can have the on-pitch ref decide for himself from the side of the pitch, using the futuristic technology known as a monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

Good points, but I take issue with this, about the offside line:

Quote

simple, and easy to be consistent with.

There is an inherent flaw with this line, which is caused by deciding when the ball has actually been played. Stopping the film at the precise moment, in order to draw your offside line, is just not that simple, and there is zero forensic analysis done of that precise moment, which is crucial to drawing the offside line.

There is, therefore, a known margin of error (according to this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7367673/THE-GREAT-VAR-DEBATE-Tech-said-Sterling-2-4cm-offside-allowed-13cm-margin-error.html), which is anything from 13-38cm!!!! This should mean that offside calls that are visibly tight should be ruled 'too close to call', and no goals should be ruled out for margins of, say, 25 cm or less (the mid-point of the 13-38cm margin for error), on the basis that the technology is just not accurate enough.

This would be the equivalent of cricket's 'umpire's call', when - in the case of very marginal LBW decisions - the umpire's original call stands, as the video evidence is not sufficient to overturn it.

Arsenal fans are saying we shouldn't be complaining because Jorginho should have been sent off against them

Man United fans are saying we shouldn't be complaining because we scored an offside goal that put us in poll position to win the title a decade ago.

Arsenal fans conveniently forget that Guendozi should have been sent off in the first half in the same game.

Man United fans conveniently forget that Macheda scored from a handball in the same game.

Twats.

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by Scott Harris

No if's or but's, the use VAR in it's current form IS ruining the game we all love.

Goals being scored but subsequently ruled out because of a stray toe or elbow - it's bollocks. Change the rule now - make it there has to be daylight between attacker and defender, otherwise he's onside. How difficult is that?

Such a good idea but so badly utilized. What do we all watch football for and enjoy most about the game? To see your team score and then get lost in the frantic celebrations. How can it be right that fans no longer feel able to celebrate goals because everyone has an eye on VAR intervening. The single most important thing about the game has almost been taken away. Think of some of the great moments in the past that these days would be ruined by VAR - it's scandalous. If it carries on as it is, it won't be long before a massive VAR clanger causes a riot. Supporters deserve better and if they don't get it we should all boycott the game until they sort it. Honestly feel that strongly about it.

The technology of VAR isn't ruining the game..... it's the complete and utter atrocity of the human decision making involved with VAR ruining the game....... So it's the R ruining it I guess, not the VA.....so, same story as before VAR and hence the push for VAR.

All the current VAR roll out has done is introduce another layer of officials who are making clear and obvious mistakes with little to no accountability from all appearances.

Except now they are making mistakes despite having video replays of the incidents and time to judge it from multiple situations.

There is no excuse for the complete lack of consistency.... the only excuse for inconsistency for on field refs (competent ones, anyways) is they don't always get a good view.,,,,, that's rarely if ever the problem with VAR.

At the very least these officials should have press duties after every match to explain any decisions they overturned/took........if their mandate is only to correct clear and obvious mistakes, and leave everything else to the on field official, I struggle to see a single reason why VAR officials shouldn't be willing and able to explain when they intervene......or in certain situations, why they didn't.

 

So, anyone still think var is a good idea? 

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

So, anyone still think var is a good idea? 

in other countries, including the one I live Var is used correctly. It's the English stubborness that prevents VAR from working in the EPL. BTW incase anyone hasn't heard:

 

I've never liked it and never wanted it. Even after a game with a refereeing performance like Ovrebo's I didn't want it.

However football fans as a collective have asked for this sh*te. There isn't a set of fans in the world who don't believe they get the worst of the decisions. Its human nature that we remember the ones that go against us and forget the ones we get the benefit of it and that continues to this day.

Earlier this season people on here were up in arms about VAR then we got some going our way and, what a surprise, it all went quiet. Now it has gone against us and everyone is up in arms again.

Does anyone think it is any different on the forum of any other club?

If you want less mistakes then VAR works and you should embrace it and live with the fact there is no perfect solution.

If you want to enjoy the game more then you should want rid of it and live with the fact there will be more mistakes, some you get the benefit of and some you don't.

But either way fans really need to give up on this fixation that their club is victimised and its all part of a great scandalous conspiracy!

Absolutely still want it ... it just needs to be used better ...

I'd be in favour of pitch side monitors for the use of the match officials, and also for each team to have X number of "reviews" per half, similar to cricket and tennis implementation of technology, which works very well.

The big issue though is not the technology it is the standard of the referees, whether on the pitch or in the studio looking at monitors.  Maybe more effort needs to be made to get ex players to become match officials, as happens in cricket.

 

we need more people like this saying that the implementation of the FA/English Referring Association is wrong on how VAR is handled. I still don't understand why Michael Oliver didn't walk over to the monitor to see what Lo Celso did. IMHO Dave was lucky not to suffer a broken leg.

Jesus even Garth Crooks is speaking sense! The hatred of VAR can bring this country back together!

9 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Jesus even Garth Crooks is speaking sense! The hatred of VAR can bring this country back together!

If you think Garth Crooks providing a bit of knowledge, checkout Andy Gray

 

15 minutes ago, robdog said:

If you think Garth Crooks providing a bit of knowledge, checkout Andy Gray

 

 If you provide a video of Craig Burley saying them same thing then I think it truly is the end of times. 

3 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

 If you provide a video of Craig Burley saying them same thing then I think it truly is the end of times. 

Skip to 1:36

 

See, my issue with today's farce was this.

It's not so much that I think that they got the decision wrong (although I think they did) - it was an incident which was up for interpretation and I can understand the arguments both ways. VAR or not, these are ultimately humans who are making the decisions, they are going to have their own perspective on matters, and often that perspective is going to differ from mine. That's fine - these things happen.

It's not so much that they later in the game admitted they were wrong.* These people are going to make mistakes; people are liable and entitled to change their opinions, and (to quote whatever drooling moron was commentating with Glenn Hoddle) there is something "commendable" to admitting when you are at fault. I can just about stomach this, plus it would be entirely ridiculous and arbitrary to send off a player thirty minutes after the fact.

The issue for me is that after reviewing the incident, and concluding that Lo Celso was guilty of violent conduct, they are unable to retrospectively punish him because they got it wrong in the first place! Retrospective bans for violent conduct have, according to this, been the standard since 2013, whether the officials simply missed an incident, or decided at the time not to award a foul. The intervention of VAR, the entire purpose of which is to serve as a safety net for precisely this sort of situation, has actively prevented the right course of action from being taken, both at the time and retrospectively.

In short - before this season, the referee would have made his decision not to award a foul/card for Lo Celso's challenge on Azpilicueta. Upon review, this would have been deemed incorrect, and the appropriate retrospective suspension for violent conduct would have been applied. The simple intervention of VAR, the system designed to catch things the on-pitch officials have missed, are unsure about, or have got wrong, has prevented this from happening.

What a complete and total fiasco.

 

 

 

 

 

* Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think a mid-match admission of error is unprecedented since VAR was introduced?

Call me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist but this season they've used VAR to help the dippers win the title and pin us back as a result of the title race being over already, they want a hot top 4 race.

It's impossible that 90% of decisions go to fit these agendas, meanwhile in the CL we seem to benefit more. Why always me???

Could be worse, we could be Bournemouth 

Two matches in a row where VAR disgraced us...does a Chelsea player have to get injured before we can lodge a formal complaint?

19 minutes ago, TrueBlueSeaFC87 said:

Two matches in a row where VAR disgraced us...does a Chelsea player have to get injured before we can lodge a formal complaint?

I just want to see the club stick up for itself a bit more. It's not normal for any club to be getting the terrible decisions we have been on the end of it in recent times. Can any club seriously say they have had it worse than us when it comes to VAR decisions? Every club has had a few bad VAR decisions go against them, this is just something that can and will happen, but seriously, can they list as many terrible decisions that we have had go against us? Earlier, I listed 4 incidents where we had been on the end of the wrong decision by VAR, not just a little wrong either, they were very wrong, so wrong that I don't see how these mistakes could be possible, and all of these decisions went against a single Chelsea player. Once, it can happen, twice is just unlucky, three times raises an eyebrow, four times really makes you wonder what is going on, and we still have a big chunk of the season left to go.

Today was probably the most damning moment against VAR so far in the Premier League, and it just happened to be against the club that VAR has been screwing with all season. I'm not having the human error excuse either, one or two maybe, but the amount we are seeing against us is absurd. These people are professionals, they trained for years and know every rule in the book, I'm not having the excuse that human error is at fault for moments like Lo Celso not being sent off today.

VAR has been screwing us over since the very first time it was used in one of our games. I remember the match clearly, it was an F.A cup match against Norwich, both Willian and Morata were fouled in the box, the ref booked them both for diving, but neither of them were dives, VAR choose to side with the ref though. We haven't had a single decision go in our favour that you would call a serious error, I'm not sure I can think of one at all where the refs have got it wrong, but can you imagine the reaction if they did? We would never hear the end of it. With us though, they haven't just got a few wrong, they have got a load of them so badly wrong that it's become farcical. 

Now, I'm not saying the refs hate Chelsea (although it's very hard not to think that way at times) but I have had a strong belief for a while now that Premier League refs never feel the same pressure to give decisions for Chelsea the same way they do with other clubs. We have all seen it for a long time now. When a bad decision goes against Chelsea, 99 times out of 100, it's forgotten about the next day, if another club is on the end of a bad decision, the reaction is totally different. It's all over the back of the newspapers, the pundits spend a whole week discussing it, clubs release statements saying how annoyed they are. We all remember the Costa crimes stuff, or the ref that apologised to West Brom after giving a last minute penalty to us, then of course we have Clattenburg admitting to fixing a game of football, which just happened to involve us again. How long are we going to blindly ingore all of these absurd things that keep happening? 

For a long time now, we have been seen as the villains of the Premier League, pretty much since the day Abramovich took over the club. It would be nice to see people at the club defend us once in a while instead of bending over and just accepting it. We need to grow a spine, I'm sick of the club always leaving the head coach to deal with these situations, they can only say so much without getting a fine and a ban themselves.