1 hour ago, Nibs said:

Remember how Conte saw things weren't working after the defeats to Liverpool & Arsenal and CHANGED things. 

Cost him his job too... Conte actually started with Change, for him anyway... his 3-4-3 was his preferred formation. Theoretically, he went back to what he was comfortable with.

More importantly, what Conte changed was the personnel, and his willingness to put a malcontent on the bench and leave him there.

Starters in his first game that were moved out pretty quickly... Oscar, Ivanovic, Terry

Conte's man management was perfect..... for any other club...

 

4 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Cost him his job too... Conte actually started with Change, for him anyway... his 3-4-3 was his preferred formation. Theoretically, he went back to what he was comfortable with.

More importantly, what Conte changed was the personnel, and his willingness to put a malcontent on the bench and leave him there.

Starters in his first game that were moved out pretty quickly... Oscar, Ivanovic, Terry

Conte's man management was perfect..... for any other club...

Conte is a great manager fullstop. He should never have been sacked. 

He knew this squad and he knew it's limitations. Crazy to think he won two major trophies in two years with this squad and he was sacked.

2 hours ago, Kentonio said:

We hired him and he deserves to be backed. I hate this idea that because he hasn't won a title before, he should be treated like some second class manager. He's done amazing things at Empoli and Napoli, and only didn't win the league in Italy because it was practically impossible with the resources he had and the domination of Juventus. And he still nearly did it.

Yet now apparently everyone and his dog knows better than Sarri does about how to organize a football team and about tactics. More than the guy who Sacchi called a genius. Ok then, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Hear hear. It’s simply amazing how many can’t seem to grasp this.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

There are always tough opponents - winning the PL is NEVER easy. Sure, City and the dippers weren't as strong as they are currently, but it was still some feat by Conte to achieve what he did - I honestly couldn't see Sarri being able to do the same. Remember how Conte saw things weren't working after the defeats to Liverpool & Arsenal and CHANGED things. 

 

 

Conte is a superb manager, no doubt about that. He won us the league and FA cup in 2 seasons which is fantastic. He's a legend. 

I don't necessarily agree with you about Conte being flexible though and willing to change things up. Conte took over a Chelsea team that were playing a back 4 the season before, so he decided to keep a back 4 at the start of the season over his preferred back 3. When things went pear shaped against Liverpool and Arsenal Conte reverted to his preferred formation which is with a back 3. Conte then kept the back 3 for the whole of the next season when we were pretty poor in the 2nd half and only finished 5th. He also persisted with Bakayoko when he was playing so poorly and kept putting Fabregas in the middle in a 2 man midfield, which a lot on this forum were very critical of at the time. Conte was also a very stubborn man. Still a legend in my eyes though.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by DannyVblue

1 minute ago, DannyVblue said:

He also persi?sted with Bakayoko when he was playing so poorly and kept putting Fabregas in the middle in a 2 man midfield, which a lot on this forum were very critical of at the time. Conte was also a very stubborn man.

They're all going to be stubborn... but let's revisit season 2.

He did switch up in the second season, for the very reason to accommodate Bakayoko and Fabergas... it was the 5-3-2, which reverted into an 8-1-1, because of the three in the midfield, 2 didn't go forward (Bakayoko and Kante) and one of them couldn't run (Fabergas). Fabergas was rarely left alone in a 2. He did go back to a 5-2-3 every once in a while against weaker teams, but that meant a front line of Pedro, Willian, Hazard, which just wasn't good enough.

He didn't want Matic sold. That would have changed things for a lot of people, maybe even Bakayoko if he had been given time to integrate himself into the squad.

In theory, he ended up playing a man down, because Cesc and Bakayoko were each half the player that he wanted, so he played the 3 in the middle.

3 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

Conte is a superb manager, no doubt about that. He won us the league and FA cup in 2 seasons which is fantastic. He's a legend. 

I don't necessarily agree with you about Conte being flexible though and willing to change things. up Conte took over a Chelsea team that were playing a back 4 the season before, so he decided to keep a back 4 at the start of the season over his preferred back 3. When things went pear shaped against Liverpool and Arsenal Conte reverted to his preferred formation which is with a back 3. Conte then kept the back 3 for the whole of the next season when we were pretty poor in the 2nd half and only finished 5th. He also persisted with Bakayoko when he was playing so poorly and kept putting Fabregas in the middle in a 2 man midfield, which a lot on this forum were very critical of at the time. Conte was also a very stubborn man. Still a legend in my eyes though.

I loved Conte. For me he had all the good points of Mourinho without so much of the negative baggage. I know things turned a bit sour but he was a winner and understood what Chelsea was all about. You are right, he was stubborn at times (I think all coaches are) but he knew when to play gung-ho and when to be a bit more cautious. Every time I see Sky show that clip of Conte going mental and jumping into the crowd to celebrate with our fans I get a bit misty eyed. Anyone tell me how to post a GIF of that?!

2 hours ago, Kentonio said:

So Sarri doesn't deserve to get the same time/opportunity as Pep or Klopp? Why exactly?

What frustrates some of us is everyone is demanding patience around Sarri, but that patience wasn't reciprocated toward proven winners such as Conte and Mourinho when problems during their tenure emerged.

If supporters were really concerned about this, then Conte or even Mourinho wouldn't have been sacked which I kept saying for years in spite of so much opposition. However, many were keen on a manager who played "attractive football" and were all to happy to get rid of them at the first sign of trouble.

We missed a great opportunity with Conte as we could have built something special with him and he had all the attributes of a top class manager who could go toe to toe with Guardiola, Klopp and etc in the long term. He proved he was pragmatic and flexible in his first season and defied the odds to win us a memorable title. The second season wasn't great, but we still won the FA Cup despite all the turmoil behind the scenes.

The reason for our predicament is tenfold, but part of the reason why Sarri is our manager is because we've settled for second best as a club. Conte was a superior manager to him. That's a fact and that's why I wasn't enthusiastic about his appointment and my view on that hasn't changed.

The time for changing the culture of the club should have started years ago, not now. The board has much to answer for our problems.

3 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I loved Conte. For me he had all the good points of Mourinho without so much of the negative baggage. I know things turned a bit sour but he was a winner and understood what Chelsea was all about. You are right, he was stubborn at times (I think all coaches are) but he knew when to play gung-ho and when to be a bit more cautious. Every time I see Sky show that clip of Conte going mental and jumping into the crowd to celebrate with our fans I get a bit misty eyed. Anyone tell me how to post a GIF of that?!

The problem with Conte was his attitude after the first season. It seemed like he wanted out in the summer, but the club managed to persuade him to stay by renegotiating his contract. Fair enough if you're unhappy, but you shouldn't be moaning and sulking to the press every other weekend. It also doesn't instill much confidence in the squad if you keep banging on about how they're not good enough to challenge. Great manager, but it was the right time for him to go.

2 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

The problem with Conte was his attitude after the first season. It seemed like he wanted out in the summer, but the club managed to persuade him to stay by renegotiating his contract. Fair enough if you're unhappy, but you shouldn't be moaning and sulking to the press every other weekend. It also doesn't instill much confidence in the squad if you keep banging on about how they're not good enough to challenge. Great manager, but it was the right time for him to go.

The more pertinent question is why did Conte's attitude change after the first season?

It didn't just come out of thin air. Something went horribly wrong behind the scenes that caused a massive schism between the board and the manager.

This isn't a one off either when it comes to our managers. It's a worrying trend that we're unable to change.

7 minutes ago, Jezz said:

What frustrates some of us is everyone is demanding patience around Sarri, but that patience wasn't reciprocated toward proven winners such as Conte and Mourinho when problems during their tenure emerged.

If supporters were really concerned about this, then Conte or even Mourinho wouldn't have been sacked which I kept saying for years in spite of so much opposition. However, many were keen on a manager who played "attractive football" and were all to happy to get rid of them at the first sign of trouble.

We missed a great opportunity with Conte as we could have built something special with him and he had all the attributes of a top class manager who could go toe to toe with Guardiola, Klopp and etc in the long term. He proved he was pragmatic and flexible in his first season and defied the odds to win us a memorable title. The second season wasn't great, but we still won the FA Cup despite all the turmoil behind the scenes.

The reason for our predicament is tenfold, but part of the reason why Sarri is our manager is because we've settled for second best as a club. Conte was a superior manager to him. That's a fact and that's why I wasn't enthusiastic about his appointment and my view on that hasn't changed.

The time for changing the culture of the club should have started years ago, not now. The board has much to answer for our problems.

Conte wanted out Jezz. He's a great manager, but he didn't want to be here long term. There was talk of him wanting to go back to Italy after his first season with us, even though he'd just won the league.

2 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

It seemed like he wanted out in the summer, but the club managed to persuade him to stay by renegotiating his contract.

I agree with DannyV on this one.

I love Conte, but when Conte wasn't backed for a Champions League run, HE downed tools. The constant negativity in the press about his squad. He wanted a payout. He wanted to leave.

I don't get that impression from Sarri. I believe he cares about these players, to his detriment really, he should have relegated half the squad to the bench by now. He protects them. He blames "motivation" when the whole world knows a few of these guys just flat out aren't good enough (you ever hear him say a negative word about either striker? That's the most glaring example).

He's an optimist by nature in that he thinks he can turn them around, and rather than give up on them, he keeps sending the same group back out there. If there has been some back stabbing going on, hopefully that will be the message he needs that this group is only looking out for themselves, so let's freshen up the squad with players that have  future at Chelsea.

I don't know if Sarri is the right guy for this club or not... but what I'm sure of, is this squad needs turned over in a big way. 

6 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Higuain sh*ts all over Lukaku and Rashford 

Yes, Lukaku is out of his depth at United/CL level and Rashford has questionable decision making in the final 3rd.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by Argo

42 minutes ago, Nibs said:

 Anyone tell me how to post a GIF of that?!??

3 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

That just serves to make what went on in the second half of last season all the more hard to take.

If he got his head in the game and prioritized getting the maximum of what he has got before leaving we would likely be playing in the CL now, the only games he seemed interested in post January were Barca and the Cup as soon as we got to Wembley.

6 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

What a Legend. That doesn't look like a man who wanted to leave IF he had been shown the support by The Board. Something went wrong - not quite sure what, and now we are where we are.

How do you post a GIF like that anyway?

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

That just serves to make what went on in the second half of last season all the more hard to take.

If he got his head in the game and prioritized getting the maximum of what he has got before leaving we would likely be playing in the CL now, the only games he seemed interested in post January were Barca and the Cup as soon as we got to Wembley.

The board screwed him over.
Conte wanted top class players but the idiots at executive-level turned around and wasted money on the Zappacostas, Drinkwaters and Girouds of the world.
Conte is the man we should have really supported if this club had any sense but we screwed up.

If we had followed Conte’s vision, we would still be the best team in the league and contenders for a CL-win. That I truly believe.

Everyone would be pissed off and in the end i am convinced Conte just wanted to be sacked and get the money because he couldn't work with to people at board-level.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

That just serves to make what went on in the second half of last season all the more hard to take.

If he got his head in the game and prioritized getting the maximum of what he has got before leaving we would likely be playing in the CL now, the only games he seemed interested in post January were Barca and the Cup as soon as we got to Wembley.

Something was broken that second season. Conte's the one who gets the majority of the blame by most because he was the most public figure but given the way we treated him after the season finished I'm quite confident in saying that one or two people behind the scenes were making life difficult for him. 

If Conte had got the support he wanted I refuse to believe we would have performed how we did last season. I'm not sure it was completely about players but it probably played a large part in it. 

I get the impression it was to do with his influence over the club in general, I think he wanted more control over the club, more authority but it was more a you get what you're given. 

We messed up souring that relationship because he was an immensely talented coach.  

2 hours ago, Kentonio said:

We hired him and he deserves to be backed. I hate this idea that because he hasn't won a title before, he should be treated like some second class manager. He's done amazing things at Empoli and Napoli, and only didn't win the league in Italy because it was practically impossible with the resources he had and the domination of Juventus. And he still nearly did it.

Yet now apparently everyone and his dog knows better than Sarri does about how to organize a football team and about tactics. More than the guy who Sacchi called a genius. Ok then, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sarri is not treated like a second class manager. I'd say he's already got more backing in the transfer market than Conte did (Kepa, Jorginho, Higuain). The squad he inherited has flaws but is still good enough to compete for a top four spot. No-one expected him to turn this side into a title contender overnight and it's understandable that radical change in playing style takes time and has setbacks along the way. I want him to be given time and I agree that the squad needs an overhaul.

Having said that, his inability/or refusal to adapt/change formations, lineups, tactical approach time and again puzzle even his biggest supporters. One of the biggest strengths of any top manager is their ability to adapt to different tactical challenges depending on the opposition they're preparing for, or even in real time depending how the match goes. It took the opponents a few months to figure out Sarri's setup but once they did, he had no answer, and still doesn't. This Chelsea side has all the possession but creates no chances upfront and is in constant danger of conceding when they lose the ball, it's like a horror show we keep seeing over and over again, with the same cast of actors.

I don't give a rat's arse who called who a genius. The best managers are the ones that win trophies. They know how to assess and utilize their players' strengths, how to change playing style when needed, how to motivate their squad and how to win ugly when there's no other way. Sarri showed none of those things so far, but I genuinely hope he has something up his sleeve we haven't seen yet because the time to prove his worth is running out.

6 minutes ago, Nibs said:

How do you post a GIF like that anyway?

Find the gif you want through Google or wherever. Right click the image (assuming you're on a desk top computer) copy it and just paste it into your post. 

If you're posting on a mobile device it's a bit more of a pain in the bum. You'd have to use the "insert other media" button to the bottom right when composing your post but I think you have to have the URL directly from the source website rather than the search engine hyperlink. 

2 minutes ago, abramovich said:

The squad he inherited has flaws but is still good enough to compete for a top four spot.

And that's what the squad he inherited is doing.

At the start of the season a lot of people in here were posting how they would be happy with challenging for a top four place and maybe a decent run in a cup.  We're doing the first and still in all three cups we entered.  But, on the back of a couple of very bad results, they've all changed their minds and the manager has to be sacked.

Talk about hypocrisy and lack of patience.

6 minutes ago, Nibs said:

What a Legend. That doesn't look like a man who wanted to leave IF he had been shown the support by The Board. Something went wrong - not quite sure what, and now we are where we are.

How do you post a GIF like that anyway?

I think his management is more suited to recovery than sustaining what's already been done if that makes sense.

Like with Juve, he came to us relishing the chance to be the saviour and thrived with the underdog mentality of no one expecting us to do anything. Then when we completed our recovery the job almost turned into a different remit, now it's all about maintaining the place at the top of the tree with everyone aware and expendant of you to deliver, Conte went from being the manager who could turn water into wine (Moses, Alonso) to desperately needing a big cheque to maintain the (excellent) job he done upto that point.

He's great at getting to the top of the mountain, it's when he gets there the rocky road's show.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

The board screwed him over.
Conte wanted top class players but the idiots at executive-level turned around and wasted money on the Zappacostas, Drinkwaters and Girouds of the world.
Conte is the man we should have really supported if this club had any sense but we screwed up.

If we had followed Conte’s vision, we would still be the best team in the league and contenders for a CL-win. That I truly believe.

Everyone would be pissed off and in the end i am convinced Conte just wanted to be sacked and get the money because he couldn't work with to people at board-level.

He may not have been dealt the best hand and if he was getting the best out of what he had (he was in the first half of the season) i would have sympathised with that, however results and performance wise that second half of the season was our worst in the Roman era (possibly the mid 90's) bar 15/16 outside of the FA Cup, the results were crap and the football was brutal.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

I loved Conte. For me he had all the good points of Mourinho without so much of the negative baggage. I know things turned a bit sour but he was a winner and understood what Chelsea was all about. You are right, he was stubborn at times (I think all coaches are) but he knew when to play gung-ho and when to be a bit more cautious. Every time I see Sky show that clip of Conte going mental and jumping into the crowd to celebrate with our fans I get a bit misty eyed. Anyone tell me how to post a GIF of that?!

Got any gifs of him doing that in the second season?.... where he completed imploded and failed to take any responsibility for what was going on?

In regards to Conte, I am of the opinion that Bakayoko and Morata were his choices, and I would be amazed if he didn't have some say in the players we recruited from Italy.

As far as what happened in the summer after winning the title, it was quite well publicised that he refused to extend his contract, but Chelsea increased his salary, and there was apparently a 10 day period where he was unobtainable, where he was flirting with AC Milan. It looked as though he was not here for the long term, so why would the board back him with expensive players. I wouldn't go out and by an engagement ring for a girlfriend that's been batting her eyes at another man.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by Osgood is Good

23 minutes ago, Luca Vialli said:

Got any gifs of him doing that in the second season?.... where he completed imploded and failed to take any responsibility for what was going on?

 

21 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

In regards to Conte, I am of the opinion that Bakayoko and Morata were his choices, and I would be amazed if he didn't have some say in the players we recruited from Italy.

As far as what happened in the summer after winning the title, it was quite well publicised that he refused to extend his contract, but Chelsea increased his salary, and there was apparently a 10 day period where he was unobtainable, where he was flirting with AC Milan. It looked as though he was not here for the long term, so why would the board back him with expensive players. I wouldn't go out and by an engagement ring for a girlfriend that's been batting her eyes at another man.

I'm a massive fan of Conte so appreciate I will be biased in his favour. It could well be that he didn't intend to stay and he did mess up in some way. But knowing the history of our club (the Board) and how they f**k up and implode on a fairly regular basis, I would not be at all surprised if it was them that pissed Conte off and that's why things went sour. When you look at how he turned things round the way he did after Mourinho, and led us to the PL (and should have been the double), he would have been well within reason to expect huge appreciation and reward and to be backed for the next season knowing we had the additional CL fixtures to contend with. I can only imagine things didn't go as he hoped and so that's why it went the way it did. You don't go from being the guy who loved the club and jumped into the fans and laughed and joked in press conferences to the sullen individual we saw the following season unless something has seriously pissed you off. 

25 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

In regards to Conte, I am of the opinion that Bakayoko and Morata were his choices, and I would be amazed if he didn't have some say in the players we recruited from Italy.

As far as what happened in the summer after winning the title, it was quite well publicised that he refused to extend his contract, but Chelsea increased his salary, and there was apparently a 10 day period where he was unobtainable, where he was flirting with AC Milan. It looked as though he was not here for the long term, so why would the board back him with expensive players. I wouldn't go out and by an engagement ring for a girlfriend that's been batting her eyes at another man.

Some of the most bone numbingly dull football I’ve seen in 40 years of going to the Bridge was under his tenure last year.

I left early on at least 3 occasions. More fun to get home and watch the fire go out.

Not that would make a jots difference to some of the JCL numpties on here. They’d tolerate any old sh*t if it garnered 3 points. “ It’s all about where we are in May innit”.......