Super Frank Lampard

[pcmacca]

46 minutes ago, wizardous said:

Just a month and a half ago everything was perfect and no one had questioned Frank's job.

I think our expectations have increased too much at that point. Yes it is a weird season where everyone is dropping points but did anyone really expect us to challenge for the title?

Realistically we are a level below Liverpool and Man City. And still, we are 8 points off the top, 5 points off the top 4 and we're not even halfway through this season.

I am sorry but a month ago, it was not perfect but just a reflection of the fixture list. As I said yesterday, Chelsea have not beaten a team in the top 8 places of the PL so how can you possibly expect to achieve top 4 if that were to continue? At the moment, I cannot see any reason why we can expect to beat anyone in the top places.

[dkw]

3 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I am sorry but a month ago, it was not perfect but just a reflection of the fixture list. As I said yesterday, Chelsea have not beaten a team in the top 8 places of the PL so how can you possibly expect to achieve top 4 if that were to continue? At the moment, I cannot see any reason why we can expect to beat anyone in the top places.

So its top 8 now, not top 9? Strange how you arbitrarily changed your argument on that....

 

Quote

Many people keep referring to the unbeaten run before the Everton match to justify a forgiven poor patch. Do you realise that in that run Chelsea did not beat any team that are now in the top 9 positions of the PL!

 

[bisright1]

42 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Considering its his 3rd season as a Manager and 2nd in the PL he is never going to measure up favorably against the likes of Pep and Klopp who both are seasoned elite Managers. My argument for the last few weeks has mainly been to give give him this season to see if he can turn the ship around, I agree if he doesn't get top 4 the board have good reason to part ways but getting rid of him mid season in the hope that a new Manager can come in and resurrect our season is a no for me.

In my view Lampard has enough Credit in the bank as a player and Manager for us to give him the season to see if he can turn things around.  

Pep and Klopp both conveyed a vision of what style of football they wanted to play in their 2nd season as managers, clearly, effectively. Lampard doesn't seem to study the game in the same way. I thought he would when we appointed him. But everything is about "confidence" and "digging deep". As if the players just tried a bit harder they would improve. It's why he played a bunch of older players because he has the belief that "experienced players will drag us to victory" instead of having a style and players that fit into that style. 

We've declined since Sarri left in holding onto possession, we lose it a lot more in the middle of the park now. We struggle to play forward quickly. We struggle to look for gaps and we are constantly playing 2 or 3 touch football. 

He's taken us this far, but we need to go further if we are going to win titles. 

[Osgoodwasgood]

9 minutes ago, Slojo said:

So were Jose, Carlo and Conte mercenaries then? Our 3 most successful managers under Roman? 

Apart from Jose, they didn't stay long did they? Of course im thankful for their contribution but im fed up of us constantly changing our manager when the slightest thing goes wrong.

How would we all feel if we bombed Frank out and he went on top be a success somewhere else?

I think its time Roman bucked the trend and gave someone a chance to provide some continuity.

Let me ask you Slojo, who would you bring in to replace Frank? and how long do you think they would stay before we're in the same situation?

[dansubrosa]

Of course Jose, Conte and Carlo are mercenaries. Look at how many clubs they managed.

The only ones you could say weren’t a mercenary is Wenger and Ferguson but they’re an exception. Frank is our best chance of emulating that but he need to start doing better soon.

[abramovich]

2 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

 

But clearly that is not the clubs view otherwise they wouldn't have appointed Lampard and lets say they only wanted Lampard in for the integration of youth to overcome the transfer ban season then why would they give him a 3 year contract, why not a 1 or 2 year contract. I am sure the board must've taken into consideration that we will be inconsistent due to the lack of experience not just in the players but also in the coaching staff.

In my view I think the club have decided to undergo a complete rebuild using the youth and therefore possibly lowered expectations, this may have been the result of spunking millions over the last few years on incredibly average players ad now finding huge difficulty in getting rid of them.

In my view we can judge Lampard at the end of the season and if we finish midtable with no clear development in style and squad development then I think there is a reason for the club to cut his tenure short however if he is to stop the rot and manage to get us a top 4 finish then I think he may warrant getting the third and final year when he should be looking to mount a challenge and the expectations will be higher. 

Three year contract is a standard, unless you're hired as an interim in the middle of the campaign and you're only there to see out the season (like Hiddink or Benitez). The club's view can also change fast if they feel they made a mistake and hired the wrong man for the job, Scolari and AVB both got three year contracts and didn't last a season. 

[wizardous]

41 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I am sorry but a month ago, it was not perfect but just a reflection of the fixture list. As I said yesterday, Chelsea have not beaten a team in the top 8 places of the PL so how can you possibly expect to achieve top 4 if that were to continue? At the moment, I cannot see any reason why we can expect to beat anyone in the top places.

I believe there was not a single Chelsea fan who was saying 'this is just a reflection of the fixture list' during that time.

Is that what you were thinking just after Giroud scored his fourth against Sevilla away?

And yes, we'll achieve top 4 surely, Frank knows what he's doing. Patience is the key.

[Argo]

20 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I think its time Roman bucked the trend and gave someone a chance to provide some continuity.

If we didn't sack AVB we wouldn't have had the best night in the club's history, if we stuck with Ranieri we wouldn't have got prime Jose, if we stuck with Jose out of sentiment when he lost the plot we wouldn't have got the amazing season under Conte (and not only that, United may have instead), if we stuck with Scolari we wouldn't have got the memories Hiddink and Carlo gave us.

Also we have had continuity, with core groups of players and Roman himself, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

20 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

How would we all feel if we bombed Frank out and he went on top be a success somewhere else?

This is like the "what if Jose goes to United and dominates" question, theoretically possible but highly unlikely (in the context you're asking which I assume is going to a competitive rival and being a managerial KDB so to speak).

That question can be asked both ways, what if we give him time it doesn't work and the next big manager is at a rival when he could have been ours? Like when Arsenal stuck with Wenger in the name of stability when Klopp was available.  

20 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Let me ask you Slojo, who would you bring in to replace Frank? and how long do you think they would stay before we're in the same situation?

That's up to the board to identify but there's always someone suitable around, if I told you the day Jose got sacked that we should appoint Conte and he would be a big upgrade how would you have reacted? Honestly?

Edited January 18, 2021 by Argo

[Munkunku]

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

Also we have had continuity, with core groups of players and Roman himself, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Please do not skin any cats in any way...

[Imran_CFC]

29 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Three year contract is a standard, unless you're hired as an interim in the middle of the campaign and you're only there to see out the season (like Hiddink or Benitez). The club's view can also change fast if they feel they made a mistake and hired the wrong man for the job, Scolari and AVB both got three year contracts and didn't last a season. 

I understand that 3 year contract is the standard and that exactly is my point, the club did not see him as an interim option to get him to see out the transfer ban season and bring in someone with more experience. The club knew he didn't have experience but brought into his 3 year plan which he presented to the board, he achieved his target for the first year and therefore should be given the opportunity to atleast see out this season and review from there.

[Osgoodwasgood]

27 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we didn't sack AVB we wouldn't have had the best night in the club's history, if we stuck with Ranieri we wouldn't have got prime Jose, if we stuck with Jose out of sentiment when he lost the plot we wouldn't have got the amazing season under Conte (and not only that, United may have instead), if we stuck with Scolari we wouldn't have got the memories Hiddink and Carlo gave us.

Also we have had continuity, with core groups of players and Roman himself, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

This is like the "what if Jose goes to United and dominates" question, theoretically possible but highly unlikely (in the context you're asking which I assume is going to a competitive rival and being a managerial KDB so to speak).

That question can be asked both ways, what if we give him time it doesn't work and the next big manager is at a rival when he could have been ours? Like when Arsenal stuck with Wenger in the name of stability when Klopp was available.  

That's up to the board to identify but there's always someone suitable around, if I told you the day Jose got sacked that we should appoint Conte and he would be a big upgrade how would you have reacted? Honestly?

All a bit negative Argo, we're 7th in the league 5 points behind City and Liverpool, but hey lets sack the manager after half a season with the players he's brought in. The fact is that there isn't really anyone suitable around, not anyone that is going to obviously make us champions and win the champions league and FA cup which is obviously what you're looking for.

[pcmacca]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So its top 8 now, not top 9? Strange how you arbitrarily changed your argument on that....

 

 

Sorry, but please do you fact checking better. I said that in the unbeaten run, they did not beat anyone in the top 9. Since that run ended, they have beaten West Ham who are now in 9th position so Chelsea have still not beaten any team in the top 8 this season.

[axman2526]

5 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

All a bit negative Argo, we're 7th in the league 5 points behind City and Liverpool, but hey lets sack the manager after half a season with the players he's brought in. The fact is that there isn't really anyone suitable around, not anyone that is going to obviously make us champions and win the champions league and FA cup which is obviously what you're looking for.

Not aimed data anyone in particular, however a fair few on here have already decided Frank is not the right man for the job and think he should  be replaced. I believe, if fans were allowed, those at the Bridge and our away fans would be a lot different.

[The Brit]

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Not sure using that game as comparison is meaningful. It is better to use our game vs city last season, then watch how we played against city a couple weeks ago. 

 

Well it was meaningful for me as it had just been shown on the tele!

[pcmacca]

45 minutes ago, wizardous said:

I believe there was not a single Chelsea fan who was saying 'this is just a reflection of the fixture list' during that time.

Is that what you were thinking just after Giroud scored his fourth against Sevilla away?

And yes, we'll achieve top 4 surely, Frank knows what he's doing. Patience is the key.

Again sorry, but if you look back, whilst happy with the results some fans were saying exactly that. They were concerned even then that all the teams we were beating were in the bottom half but we were unable to beat or really even look like beating any of the top 4.

[pcmacca]

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Not aimed data anyone in particular, however a fair few on here have already decided Frank is not the right man for the job and think he should  be replaced. I believe, if fans were allowed, those at the Bridge and our away fans would be a lot different.

I believe Frank could be the right man for the job but he needs to accept that due to his inexperience, he may need some more help in team structure, planning and tactics.

[Argo]

30 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

All a bit negative Argo, we're 7th in the league 5 points behind City and Liverpool, but hey lets sack the manager after half a season with the players he's brought in. The fact is that there isn't really anyone suitable around, not anyone that is going to obviously make us champions and win the champions league and FA cup which is obviously what you're looking for.

We weren't close to the winning the league the last two season's yet I was behind both Sarri and Lampard because I saw promising encouragement on the pitch that we were heading in the right direction.

I notice you didn't answer the question about Conte, how would you have reacted if someone suggested him to replace Mou?

Edited January 18, 2021 by Argo

[Gol15]

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

Of course Jose, Conte and Carlo are mercenaries. Look at how many clubs they managed.

The only ones you could say weren’t a mercenary is Wenger and Ferguson but they’re an exception. Frank is our best chance of emulating that but he need to start doing better soon.

Jose changed a bit but I believe that when he first came that he wasn't just there for the money, I have a similar feeling about Don Carlo because he was happy here but we were chasing the CL title and 1 season that he didn't win anything he got sacked despite the fact that he was a great manager for us.

I think that Conte loved our club and he most likely till this day has a great opinion about his own time in Chelsea. He didn't leave because he had some other plans or something like that, he left due to not being backed enough by the board. 

If you want to see how a typical mercenary behaves look no further than Sarri. 

[Slojo]

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

Of course Jose, Conte and Carlo are mercenaries. Look at how many clubs they managed.

The only ones you could say weren’t a mercenary is Wenger and Ferguson but they’re an exception. Frank is our best chance of emulating that but he need to start doing better soon.

I can't help but feel that this is absolutely ridiculous... 

[abramovich]

11 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I understand that 3 year contract is the standard and that exactly is my point, the club did not see him as an interim option to get him to see out the transfer ban season and bring in someone with more experience. The club knew he didn't have experience but brought into his 3 year plan which he presented to the board, he achieved his target for the first year and therefore should be given the opportunity to atleast see out this season and review from there.

They were always going to give him a three year contract, he wouldn't have taken the job otherwise. What were they going to say, Frank. we normally give new managers three years, but we're having doubts about your suitability for the job, so let's make it a year and see how it goes?

My point is, the length of a contract means nothing, it's the norm, we sacked managers in the past long before their contracts were up if the hierarchy felt it was the right thing to do and I don't see why they'd make an exception for Frank. I believe they're still expecting him to finish in the top four and if the team continues to struggle, at some point they'll sack him.

[Slojo]

1 hour ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Apart from Jose, they didn't stay long did they? Of course im thankful for their contribution but im fed up of us constantly changing our manager when the slightest thing goes wrong.

How would we all feel if we bombed Frank out and he went on top be a success somewhere else?

I think its time Roman bucked the trend and gave someone a chance to provide some continuity.

Let me ask you Slojo, who would you bring in to replace Frank? and how long do you think they would stay before we're in the same situation?

There's just two points of your original post that I'm not understanding though. (And I f**king quoted the wrong one... Apologies). 

But to answer your question just now, was it their choice? We sacked all of them. And managerial wise they've done amazing things for this club, even Conte as much of a miserable twat that he was. 

Not just that but another point I want to pick out. You said something like "What risk are we taking by giving him at least the rest of this season and perhaps another". You could make this argument about AVB in 2012 and what did we get out of it by sacking him? Our first and only ever Champions League to date and an F.A. Cup. 

Besides those two points, I get some of the stuff you're saying, and the sentiment. You want things to change, stability, no more sacking managers etc. Ideally I also want that, we wall do, but it's extremely hard to get the right man for that job, and stability doesn't equal success. If were to hire Steve Bruce and give him 10 years at the club with every resource he wants, what do you think will happen? Will we start winning things just because we've broken the cycle and offered stability? Or would we be better off having 5-6 managers during that 10 year period. I very strongly wager the latter on that part. 

 

[Gol15]

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

There's just two points of your original post that I'm not understanding though. (And I f**king quoted the wrong one... Apologies). 

But to answer your question just now, was it their choice? We sacked all of them. And managerial wise they've done amazing things for this club, even Conte as much of a miserable twat that he was. 

Not just that but another point I want to pick out. You said something like "What risk are we taking by giving him at least the rest of this season and perhaps another". You could make this argument about AVB in 2012 and what did we get out of it by sacking him? Our first and only ever Champions League to date and an F.A. Cup. 

Besides those two points, I get some of the stuff you're saying, and the sentiment. You want things to change, stability, no more sacking managers etc. Ideally I also want that, we wall do, but it's extremely hard to get the right man for that job, and stability doesn't equal success. If were to hire Steve Bruce and give him 10 years at the club with every resource he wants, what do you think will happen? Will we start winning things just because we've broken the cycle and offered stability? Or would we be better off having 5-6 managers during that 10 year period. I very strongly wager the latter on that part. 

 

The way we got rid of Don Carlo said more about us than about him at the time. What was he supposed to do just stop searching for a job? I don't buy that he was a mercenary just because he had worked in many clubs.

Conte was very passionate about our club, he was like our lion but he felt that the board stabbed him in the back and he couldn't let go of that feeling, even so he didn't just leave for another club he took a little break and now he's working again.

Jose always had an ego, I thought that his decision to leave Inter for Real Madrid was more of a mercenary move and from that point on he was just ready for any job opportunity but before that he did show that he was loyal to us and to Inter, I think that after winning everything with Inter he simply decided to move on while he's on a high because that generation was pretty much done.

Sarri on the other hand - Napoli's favorite manager that after 1 season with us left as soon as Juventus called him, Juventus the bitter rival or Napoli. That's a big sign of a mercenary because he left us as soon as he could, meaning he wasn't sacked by us like Ancelotti and he didn't have a problem with the board like Conte and he left for a club that his biggest fanbase dislikes a whole lot. He had the experience of seeing his best striker Higuain leaving Napoli for Juventus so he clearly knew how those fans feel about Juventus but that didn't stop him for joining Juventus at all.

[Slojo]

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

The way we got rid of Don Carlo said more about us than about him at the time. What was he supposed to do just stop searching for a job? I don't buy that he was a mercenary just because he had worked in many clubs.

Conte was very passionate about our club, he was like our lion but he felt that the board stabbed him in the back and he couldn't let go of that feeling, even so he didn't just leave for another club he took a little break and now he's working again.

Jose always had an ego, I thought that his decision to leave Inter for Real Madrid was more of a mercenary move and from that point on he was just ready for any job opportunity but before that he did show that he was loyal to us and to Inter, I think that after winning everything with Inter he simply decided to move on while he's on a high because that generation was pretty much done.

Sarri on the other hand - Napoli's favorite manager that after 1 season with us left as soon as Juventus called him, Juventus the bitter rival or Napoli. That's a big sign of a mercenary because he left us as soon as he could, meaning he wasn't sacked by us like Ancelotti and he didn't have a problem with the board like Conte and he left for a club that his biggest fanbase dislikes a whole lot. He had the experience of seeing his best striker Higuain leaving Napoli for Juventus so he clearly knew how those fans feel about Juventus but that didn't stop him for joining Juventus at all.

I think calling managers mercenaries because they get other jobs after being sacked is just absolutely ridiculous myself. I don't care if a manager is scouse or italian, if they can come here and get the job done I'm happy to have them. 

 

[Osgoodwasgood]

38 minutes ago, Argo said:

We weren't close to the winning the league the last two season's yet I was behind both Sarri and Lampard because I saw promising encouragement on the pitch that we were heading in the right direction.

I notice you didn't answer the question about Conte, how would you have reacted if someone suggested him to replace Mou?

I think the circumstances were slightly different, Jose second time round turned unfortunately rather sour, reports that he’d lost the dressing room etc and given his previous it wasn’t really working out. Frank in comparison is a manager cutting his teeth in the game, hugely respected as a player but inexperienced as a coach. The board knew that when they took him on, so to sack him now would in my opinion be very short sighted of them as I don’t feel he’s been given any sort of chance. He needs at least a season and a half( with these players) and then judge him. With Jose there wasn’t really any scope was there?

[Osgoodwasgood]

26 minutes ago, Slojo said:

There's just two points of your original post that I'm not understanding though. (And I f**king quoted the wrong one... Apologies). 

But to answer your question just now, was it their choice? We sacked all of them. And managerial wise they've done amazing things for this club, even Conte as much of a miserable twat that he was. 

Not just that but another point I want to pick out. You said something like "What risk are we taking by giving him at least the rest of this season and perhaps another". You could make this argument about AVB in 2012 and what did we get out of it by sacking him? Our first and only ever Champions League to date and an F.A. Cup. 

Besides those two points, I get some of the stuff you're saying, and the sentiment. You want things to change, stability, no more sacking managers etc. Ideally I also want that, we wall do, but it's extremely hard to get the right man for that job, and stability doesn't equal success. If were to hire Steve Bruce and give him 10 years at the club with every resource he wants, what do you think will happen? Will we start winning things just because we've broken the cycle and offered stability? Or would we be better off having 5-6 managers during that 10 year period. I very strongly wager the latter on that part. 

 

My point Slojo  is that with all the previous managers we’ve done the hiring and firing, won a few trophies along the way, maybe it’s time we changed tack and showed some patience with a manager.

im just saying that I personally feel that Frank is the perfect candidate to offer that chance to.