6 hours ago, Argo said:

I disagree. He was the one constant in the attack during our best form of the season and before his injury won us the game at Villa Park with three assists (not officially but without his work none of those goals happen) and his run against Spurs which sets up Ziyech.

His creative metrics are consistently up there with the best players in the league (his finishing needs serious work though can't argue there) and he has many times displayed mature decision making in the final third.

To bring a few examples (and this just what has ended up in goals). His assist to Ziyech at Malmo, his action for the opener at St James Park. His assist to Azpi against Burnley last season, the way he spotted Chilwell free on the other side of the box before Mason's goal at Fulham, his assist to Pulisic at Anfield where he somehow managed to find the American with a perfect cross despite the ball being in the air and at full flight, his assist against Arsenal when he perfectly found Azpi with a clever low cross (he created about six clear chances that night aswell), returning from injury and becoming the first teenager to assist three games in a row since Michael Owen (all three examples of mature decision making you certainly won't get from the Iwobi's off this world, especially the one vs Newcastle where he quickly identified Alonso making a run on his blindside).

If we had in form attackers in his position I can maybe let this go but I'm adamant if he had the chances Pulisic, Ziyech and Werner has had he'll be doing better. Bar Pulisic's restart form his form in the Autumn was better than anything those three have shown us yet he was dropped back into oblivion the first meh game he had (United, days after he tore Juve apart).

He also has incredible on pitch chemistry with James which in and of itself pushes him up the pecking order in my eyes.

Cal prefers the left side over the right side though Argo, so would more be his pairing with Chilwell and Alonso.

Aside from his finishing his biggest issue imo is his injury record.

19 hours ago, axman2526 said:

At the mo mate Spurs are better than us, sad but true.

They are only better than us right now because they have a better mentality.

Most sides now are better than us simply because of that.

A Championship side like Forest, if we face them now - if they have a laser focused, "must-win" mentality and we continue to have this weak mentality, we will lose to Forest.

Doesn't matter what tactics you use, doesn't matter how good the players we line up. If the mentality across the team is weak, nothing is going to happen for us.

TT needs to fix this issue fast. Because as it stands, Leeds and Liverpool will beat us. 

As for Havertz...he's a perfect example of a player at the moment who's mentality is weak. Very skilful player, and hard to play against....if his mentality is correct.

Edited May 9, 20224 yr by Mana

Havertz is just still young but he's one of the most talented players out there so there is no reason to give up on him just yet.

1 hour ago, Mana said:

They are only better than us right now because they have a better mentality.

Most sides now are better than us simply because of that.

A Championship side like Forest, if we face them now - if they have a laser focused, "must-win" mentality and we continue to have this weak mentality, we will lose to Forest.

Doesn't matter what tactics you use, doesn't matter how good the players we line up. If the mentality across the team is weak, nothing is going to happen for us.

TT needs to fix this issue fast. Because as it stands, Leeds and Liverpool will beat us. 

As for Havertz...he's a perfect example of a player at the moment who's mentality is weak. Very skilful player, and hard to play against....if his mentality is correct.

There is no real natural motivation to maybe make top 4 4 games before the end. The players are fine making it the last day. Our season's been massively long with much of disappointment. Last good game from us was Real Madrid away. We pretty much battered them at their home and somehow ended up losing it. Before that it was Liverpool in the Carabao Cup final. We are running on fumes so only must win/final deciders are good enough games to perform in. 

There is nothing wrong with Kai's mentality. Nothing at all. He is giving everything for the team. Long season for him as well.

Our lads are wired like City and Liverpool players. Only the best is good enough. If you can't chase that you lose motivation to perform at peak level.

..

Edited May 10, 20224 yr by weetee

19 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Havertz is just still young but he's one of the most talented players out there so there is no reason to give up on him just yet.

Sheeessh..is the forum giving up on him again? Must have been a long and exhausting season for the The Shed End as well.

It is interesting that Tuchel said that kai n rom does not really fit and I have the same feeling. 

Both are more comfortable playing in central area. Maybe if we play them as front two or Havertz as a 10 then it can work but as long as we play 343, there is no room for another center player. 

37 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It is interesting that Tuchel said that kai n rom does not really fit and I have the same feeling. 

Both are more comfortable playing in central area. Maybe if we play them as front two or Havertz as a 10 then it can work but as long as we play 343, there is no room for another center player. 

To retain the defensive solidity, you could play 3-4-2-1 with Havertz and Mount as the 2, or 3-4-1-2 with Lukaku and Havertz as the 2, but then you'd need your wing backs to being their A-game for the width and the crosses for the front two.

Either way, or another way, TT will need to come up with a system to get all his best players on the pitch at the same time. We need to maximise the threat to the opposition !

On 10/05/2022 at 10:55, weetee said:

Sheeessh..is the forum giving up on him again? Must have been a long and exhausting season for the The Shed End as well.

My biggest doubt with Havertz is getting the best out of him. I just don't know where he should be playing. He's been here for 2 seasons now and we still don't know how to properly fit him into the team. He looked good between February and March, but it's once again just a purple patch. 

At this moment, with how Tuchel sets us up, I just don't see a position he can play in that he will consistently play well in for a full season.

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

My biggest doubt with Havertz is getting the best out of him. I just don't know where he should be playing. He's been here for 2 seasons now and we still don't know how to properly fit him into the team. He looked good between February and March, but it's once again just a purple patch. 

At this moment, with how Tuchel sets us up, I just don't see a position he can play in that he will consistently play well in for a full season.

He played well bar finishing (feels like I say that about one of our forwards every week in fairness) at Old Trafford, admittedly had stinkers in the two games either side.

What he has over Lukaku is him up too facilitates more fluid football, for example he didn't play that well in himself against Real but I don't think we can produce a team performance like that without him on the pitch at false 9.

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

He played well bar finishing (feels like I say that about one of our forwards every week in fairness) at Old Trafford, admittedly had stinkers in the two games either side.

What he has over Lukaku is him up too facilitates more fluid football, for example he didn't play that well in himself against Real but I don't think we can produce a team performance like that without him on the pitch at false 9.

I think it goes without saying that I would prefer Havertz over Lukaku most weeks, but at the same time, I'm still not convinced that he is the answer up front. Some say he can play a similar role that Firmino has played at Liverpool, the problem there is that Firmino has two players next to him that score 20+ goals a season. Werner, Pulisic and Ziyech don't look like they will ever reach that level and as much as I love Mount, I don't think he will either, so that means we need regular goals from Havertz, which I don't think we will get because he isn't clinical enough and goes through rough patches where he can't get involved in games.

10 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

At this moment, with how Tuchel sets us up, I just don't see a position he can play in that he will consistently play well in for a full season.

Agree. If he play as full time 9 he will have some purple patch then it will be long suffering. He simply doesn't have the physicality to play there full time.

In perfect world he play majority of the time as a 10 and occasionally as 9. 

Moving from a back 3 to a back 4 would allow us to have that extra player forward (granted that’s going to be central midfielder), but I don’t see how it can work with Lukaku and Havertz, as it’s been pointed out. Just seems like it has to be one or the other, but maybe I am wrong and they can figure out a way to share the pitch together. 

 

 

 

That chance missed is everything wrong with Havertz right now. He has all of the talent, but he will never be a top player until he becomes more ruthless. 

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

That chance missed is everything wrong with Havertz right now. He has all of the talent, but he will never be a top player until he becomes more ruthless. 

I wonder if he lacks that mental edge that makes the truly great players great.

What an excellent shot to hit it the bucket , a carnival-like shot!

3 hours ago, azpi28 said:

 

 

 

Amazing trick shot! He's not even looking whether it goes in or not because he just knows. Kinda like Steph Curry does at time.

3 minutes ago, weetee said:

Amazing trick shot! He's not even looking whether it goes in or not because he just knows. Kinda like Steph Curry does at time.

beautiful tribute from kai

Edited July 18, 20224 yr by azpi28

Just now, azpi28 said:

he knows what the American market likes, basketball 

beautiful tribute from kai

Indeed. Although he quickly realized how he sold himself out for a quick trick and humble as he is could only think: "Shame on me."

7 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

That chance missed is everything wrong with Havertz right now. He has all of the talent, but he will never be a top player until he becomes more ruthless. 

I swear he always looked incredibly composed in front of goal every time I watched him at Leverkusen. Haven't seen much of it at Chelsea, not yet at least.

Really hope he kicks on this season.

1 hour ago, Amputechture said:

I swear he always looked incredibly composed in front of goal every time I watched him at Leverkusen. Haven't seen much of it at Chelsea, not yet at least.

Really hope he kicks on this season.

 

A lot of these goals were really classy. It's annoying watching it really because I don't understand where this lethal finishing has gone. You look at his Leverkusen highlights and you would think that he would be one of the very best in the game 2 years later, but it's not happened. If anything, he is worse with us than he was with Leverkusen. We are still just getting flashes of brilliance, but his decision making, shooting, technique, it all seems to be worse when he plays for us. It's all there, but there is something stopping him from producing it game after game.

He is one of the most naturally gifted footballers of his age group and I thought after two seasons with us, he would be one of the very best in the game, a bit similar to how Hazard progressed. 3 years ago, Mount and James were probably a bit behind Havertz when it came to the progression of their game, but in that time, they have both pulled ahead of him whilst not being as naturally gifted as he is. 

I really hope he isn't going to be one of these players where it all clicks just as his contract is running down and a team like Real Madrid comes in for him and takes him from us. 

 

Apparently he is one of "lot" who want out. Not happy playing as a false 9 and does not believe TT knows how to best use him. The World Cup leaving him cause for concern.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Apparently he is one of "lot" who want out. Not happy playing as a false 9 and does not believe TT knows how to best use him. The World Cup leaving him cause for concern.

If we could get back what we paid I think most would snatch at it.

I've never rated Havertz as highly as most. He's obviously extremely talented.

But having watched him at Leverkuzem I've never got the generational talent hype.  I don't think he's an absolute top talent he just doesn't have that something special despite being a very classy operator.

2 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

If we could get back what we paid I think most would snatch at it.

I've never rated Havertz as highly as most. He's obviously extremely talented.

But having watched him at Leverkuzem I've never got the generational talent hype.  I don't think he's an absolute top talent he just doesn't have that something special despite being a very classy operator.

Think we are too late in the market to sell him now, The club's that could afford him have made their moves.